WPC/RMS for SRS 1.2 TLs

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hearingimpared
hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
edited October 2006 in Vintage Speakers
I'm amp hunting.:( I'm looking for your opinions on wpc rms / 8 ohm ratings to drive the 1.2 TLs for both tube and solid-state amps. Name brands are also very welcome.

I've already received such :eek: opposite end of the spectum opinions :confused: that I just wanted to get the nitty gritty from you folks here.

Thanks,
Joe
Post edited by hearingimpared on

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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited August 2006
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    Addendum: I was thinking about getting two mono blocks for the low frequency and bi-amping with a sweeter amp for the high frequency.
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited August 2006
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    200+ Ss.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited August 2006
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    Like Mark says.
  • BOLIN6861
    BOLIN6861 Posts: 13
    edited August 2006
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    I wish I had SDA 1.2's
    I have SDA SRS 2.3's
    I BI_AMP'ed them with a ADCOM GFA=555 and a ADCOM GFA-545
    They sound grate
    But if I had your 1,2's I would have 2 ADCOM GFA=555's bridged mono
    You would not belive the soud! or the cost of the amp's
    MIKE
    POLK SDA 2.3
    ADCOM POWER!
    ADVENT HERITAGE BACKUP
  • whitetruk
    whitetruk Posts: 308
    edited August 2006
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    mono`s here
    denon 6600a 280@8
    carver silver 9`ts 575@8
    have also thrown in the adcom 555`2
    very pleased with any of the amps,but if your shopping some mac mc1000`s would be pretty shweeeet.
    later,scott
    I thought it was fairly amusing also. The Polk Ogre doesn't always get 'it'
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited August 2006
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    But if I had your 1,2's I would have 2 ADCOM GFA=555's bridged mono
    You would not belive the soud! or the cost of the amp's
    I found an Adcom 555 on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&item=300021925005&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 This guy tried selling this amp last week but got no bids. The pictures of the back of the amp look very shabby. I think his opening bid is high. What do you think?
  • Toka78
    Toka78 Posts: 192
    edited September 2006
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    There are Adcom 555's on eBay and Audiogon all the time, should have no trouble finding one for a good price with a little patience. Personally, I'd go for something more refined, but you need power no matter what.
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited September 2006
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    Toka78 wrote:
    Personally, I'd go for something more refined, but you need power no matter what.

    Can you elaborate on the "more refined" above.
    Thanks, Joe
  • univera
    univera Posts: 848
    edited September 2006
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    I have personally used similar power via an Nad 7600 receiver, which has the Nad 2200A amp section on my SDA-SRS. It more than easily powered these large speakers. The 2200PE amp is a very similar amp with Power Envelope technology that will give you plenty of reserve power.

    I am biased towards NAD as it undersells and overdelivers in my experience. An Nad power rating may look lower than another, but in actuality and real world performance much greater than seemingly more powerful pieces.

    The NAD sound, IMO, is not bright and is a very natural, smooth sound. Plus, I like the protective Soft Clipping that protects you from blowing the tweets by rounding off the potentially damaging waves while in turn giving you a pleasing sound at the limits. If you are going to use two monoblocks for the subs, I would think two of these bridged babies would do you right! That's 400wpc at 8 ohms. These amps sometimes sell as little as $200-225 but usually get around $300.00 for mint models. Keep in mind we are talking about the 2200 itself, not the even better 2200PE. This would probably be a little cheaper than going the Adcom route with the 555's. I don't think you mentioned a budget which would probably get you better options.

    I can't speak personally for the Adcoms although they are beloved all over for "bang for your buck." I could be accussed of being an NAD head, but I just appreciate quality and performance for a great price (who doesnt'.)

    The NAD 2200 amps are comparable in price to the 555's, depending on the weather....The thread below mentions Adcom's being "grainy" and that may be what is being described in the link provided. Check out this recent classified that addresses a question I had about the Adcom and Nad pieces. Doro's advice is as straightforward as you will find and based on actually listening to the pieces in question. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43777 Post for the 2200 itself: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43786
    UNIVERA
    Historic Charleston SC

    2 Channel:
    SDA-SRS's RDO tweets
    Biamped Anthem 2 SE's w/1970's NOS Siemens CCA's
    Anthem Pre 2L w/E.harmonix platinum matched 6H23's
    CDP- NAD C 542



    HT setup:
    AVR: NAD T 773
    Rears: Polk LC80i
    DVD: Toshiba 3109 dual tray
    Subs: Velodyne and M&K
    T.V.: Sony KDL-52XBR4 w/Vans Evers Clean Line Jr.
    Conditioner: Panamax M5100EX

    Master Bedroom Sony 40KDL-XBR3

    "I love it when a plan comes together." Hannibal Smith, The A-Team
  • Toka78
    Toka78 Posts: 192
    edited September 2006
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    Toka78 wrote:


    Can you elaborate on the "more refined" above.
    Thanks, Joe

    Well, its a matter of personal taste, but I've found that era Adcom to be a bit grainy sounding...by no means terrible, so please don't think that is what I meant. But when compared to other amps of the era such as Threshold (the 'S' and 'SA' lines), it becomes much more obvious. Of course, a good Threshold amp, rarely available on the secondary market, still commands top prices ($1K and above). You could buy an Adcom and be happy with it the rest of your life, there is nothing 'wrong' with it, and it was a landmark in its time.
  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited September 2006
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    I would run a minimum of 200W SS for the lows. You could add an 8W/channel or greater tube amp to the top end. I'm just thinking that you would be running (minimum) 3 amps on something that likes common groud amps... Yikes..
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
  • beemer
    beemer Posts: 155
    edited September 2006
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    I've got 2.3TL's and run them with an Adcom GFA555II. A match made in heaven, not grainy and will play as loud as I desire.

    Best,

    Paul :D
    Main system: Levinson Reference 32 Preamp/30.6 DAC/31.5 Transport/Sony SCD777ES/VPI Aries w/SDS JMW 10.5 arm/Van den Hul Frog/Levinson 33 Monoblocks/33H Monoblocks/Transparent reference XL interconnect & Speaker cable/Nearfield Acoustics Pipedream Reference 18 Line Array.
    Bedroom: Levinson 390S/380S/ML3/Sony SCD 777ES/McIntosh MC2000/Infinity IRS-Beta
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited September 2006
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    I pulled the trigger on Adcom GFA 565s w/Musical Concepts upgrades as well as power cord upgrades.

    Thanks all.
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited September 2006
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    I'm amp hunting.:( I'm looking for your opinions on wpc rms / 8 ohm ratings to drive the 1.2 TLs for both tube and solid-state amps. Name brands are also very welcome.

    Joe,

    You can go 'round and 'round like this forever and never be satisfied. You first have to establish some goals with regard to what you want your audio system to provide for you in the way of playback. Once you have an idea of the kind of sound and the quality of reproduction you are seeking, then other people can make informed and appropriate equipment recommendations and you will be able to make informed and appropriate equipment choices. You will also be able to make better use of equipment reviews in audio magazines if you can find reviewers who have the same musical and sound reproduction goals and tastes as yourself. When I am reading audio magazine reviews, a key word I look for is "neutral" when the reviewer is describing the sound of the gear.

    My primary audio goal is the accurate and realistic reproduction of acoustic jazz music. I say accurate because I want my stereo to reproduce, as closely as economically practical, what I hear during a live jazz performance. I say realistic because I want the audio "images" to be lifesize and specifically placed within a soundfield. I also want my stereo system to be as neutral and "uncolored" as economically practical. I want to hear exactly what is on the source without any additions or subtractions. Of course, absolute accuracy is impossible, even with state-of-the-art equipment, but we can get close enough to fool the ear. Conversely, there are audio enthusiasts who like certain colorations in their audio playback because that is what tickles their ears. It's all subjective.

    Since I am seeking the reproduction of lifesize images, It would not be practical for me to consider bookshelf or small tower speakers in my main two channel audio system. Such speakers simply cannot move sufficient air to give me the tactile response I am seeking. If my audio reproduction goals changed, for example, to the accurate and realistic reproduction of large orchestral works, then I would need to assemble a different system than what I now have.

    I've already received such :eek: opposite end of the spectum opinions :confused:

    Of course you have. Every one here has different audio goals, budgets, and ears. Plus, we don't know what you are after with regard to audio reproduction capability. It wouldn't be prudent to walk into a car dealership and ask for vehicle recommendations without having some idea of how the vehicle would be used, the required vehicle size, engine power, etc. You can't expect appropriate gear recommendations from an audio forum without providing some idea of what type of audio playback experience you are seeking. You have to help us help you.:)
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited September 2006
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    Joe,

    You first have to establish some goals with regard to what you want your audio system to provide for you in the way of playback.

    Thanks for the informative write up Raife. My goal right now is to take my existing equipment build a base line system around it. I am currently in the process of buying a new home and when I move in want to hook up the system and start listening to music. After a while I will start tweaking and upgrading to reach the nirvana of music reproduction that I can afford. I am a music lover first . . . a neurotic tweaker second.

    I knew that I loved the SDA/SRS so I purchased 1.2 TLs. My system was still incomplete, I needed power amps, a CDP, cabling, and just recently found that the cartridge on my TT is probably toast.

    I knew that many, many folks such as yourself have owned or currently own SDAs and had different amps in the mix. I decided to take all the opinions and experiences that were given and make an educated guess as to what amps would fit my budget and musical tastes. When I owned the SRSs in the early 1990s I had two NAD 2200PEs they were very balsy but I didn't remember their sonic signature on analog music, their signature on digital at that time was a little bright. I got the impression from all the research (without a listen) that the Adcoms were better for what I needed so I went after Adcom 565s with the Musical Concept upgrades and power cord upgrades and got them. Now I only have two parts of the baseline puzzle to fill. I am currently waiting on a friend of mine to pull some strings to obtain a Music Hall CD25. After that I have to go after my real passion a new cartridge for my VPI/SME combo. The Talisman Alchemist cartridge cantilever and suspension is prettty much shot. I can't get it retipped because Talisman no longer exists so I have to get a cartridge (without listening) to match the set up. I know a few analog lovers like myself whose ears I trust. I'll be using their opinions and experiences to buy a cartridge within my current budget.

    As I said this is a base-line system. So there are going to be a lot of variables. Plus I am quite rusty. So I am going to be doing a lot of listening, repostioning, and note taking when we finally move into the new house. I don't want to move in without a complete system that is why I am willing to risk other peoples opinions and experience. Besides where I am renting now I can't set up a low end system let alone what I currently have.

    Thanks again for your input.
    Joe
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited September 2006
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    I received my Adcom GFA 565 mono blocks today. They have the Musical Concepts upgrades (I popped the top to see the upgrades, very well done) and upgraded power cord (can't figure out who made the power cord yet). They are pretty much mint condition, a small scratch here and there but very very clean and well kept.

    The only holes I have left in my system are a CDP or CD transport and a good cartidge to match my VPI HW 19 Mk IV and my SME IV tonearm and of course the interconnects and speaker cables. . . . oh yeah I forgot. . . a big house to set the system up in. Still working hard on that one.

    It's funny I have all this great equipment:

    VPI HW 19 Mk IV (tweaked with sorbothane sheets)
    Lead Ballon
    The Clamp, record clamp
    SME IV Tonearm
    Talisman Alchemist cartridge (BEAT)
    Coming Soon: CDP or CD Transport
    Timbre TT-1 DAC
    Spectral DMC 10 Preamp
    Adcom GFA 565 mono blocks
    w/Musical Concepts upgrade & power cord upgrades
    Polk SDA/SRS 1.2 TL
    Tip Toes & Black Holes
    Awesome LP collection
    Almost as good CD collection

    and all I can do is sit and look at it and wonder what it is going to sound like when I finally get it hooked up. I'm really jonesing to get this together and listen to my music.

    In the mean time I have to hang out at high end audio stores to listen to decent music and drool like Homer Simpson over the equipment and toys.

    Well Life is Very Good!!!!
  • joeparaski
    joeparaski Posts: 1,865
    edited September 2006
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    I know the feeling....I've upgraded all my interconnects and speaker cables with Audio Art IC-1 interconnects and SC-5 cables. The IC's came in but the speaker cables are stuck at the border somewhere. So now I just gawk at the system a bit and just listen to the 2-channel rig upstairs.

    Joe
    Amplifiers: 1-SAE Mark IV, 4-SAE 2400, 1-SAE 2500, 2-SAE 2600, 1-Buttkicker BKA 1000N w/2-tactile transducers. Sources: Sony BDP CX7000es, Sony CX300/CX400/CX450/CX455, SAE 8000 tuner, Akai 4000D R2R, Technics 1100A TT, Epson 8500UB with Carada 100". Speakers:Polk SDA SRS, 3.1TL, FXi5, FXi3, 2-SVS 20-29, Yamaha, SVS center sub. Power:2-Monster HTS3500, Furman M-8D & RR16 Plus. 2-SAE 4000 X-overs, SAE 5000a noise reduction, MSB Link DAC III, MSB Powerbase, Behringer 2496, Monarchy DIP 24/96.
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited September 2006
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    Yo Joe,

    All my equipment is stacked up in my bedroom (my wife and I are renting with my brother while we house hunt) in boxes. The 1.2 TLs are at the foot of the bed. Every so often I take the preamp or the dac out of the box and pop the top, I get some kind of perverted pleasure out of doing that. My wife has caught me walking by the 1.2 TLs and caressing them. I'm losing it!

    Joe
  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited September 2006
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    Joe,

    You've probably already been advised that the SDA's need common ground amp(s) so I'll shut up now :D

    Carl
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited September 2006
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    Hey Carl,

    Yes I have. Raife told me that I can connect the grounds between each mono block and that Adcom also recommends that the chasis also be connected together. So they will work with those big boys.

    Raife had them in system at one time with no problems.

    Thanks for the feedback.
    Joe
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited September 2006
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    joeparaski wrote:
    I know the feeling....I've upgraded all my interconnects and speaker cables with Audio Art IC-1 interconnects and SC-5 cables. The IC's came in but the speaker cables are stuck at the border somewhere. So now I just gawk at the system a bit and just listen to the 2-channel rig upstairs.

    Joe

    Yo Joe,

    When you upgrade your cabling do you find the prices reflect the amount of sonic improvement that you get? Like are $200 interconnects twice as good as $100 interconnects?

    I want to start off with some decent cabling to connect this system together. I've been out of the audiophilia obsession for awhile and have been doing a lot of reading to catch up. The thing is that I really do know that good cabling can make or break a setup. What I don't know is what are some decent interconnects & speaker wires to start off with as a baseline to just get listening when I do get this rig going. I'm a firm believer in buying used stuff to start off with. As a matter of fact the only thing that I purchased new in this system was the VPI turntable and SME tonearm and the cartridge 20 years ago. Everything else was second or third hand.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,846
    edited September 2006
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    MIT, the last cable you'll ever need.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • joeparaski
    joeparaski Posts: 1,865
    edited September 2006
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    A member on this forum had written glowing report on Audio Art interconnects. He already had good cables and he heard a marked improvement with Audio Art. I felt that with the caliber of my rig, and the price of the Audio Art ic's and speaker wire, the upgrade would benefit my system....although I have yet to hear it since I haven't got the cables yet.

    The down side of having this overkill system is the amount of cabling required to wire it all. About 2 dozen interconnects and 300 feet of speaker wire.

    Check them out at www.audioartcable.com

    Joe
    Amplifiers: 1-SAE Mark IV, 4-SAE 2400, 1-SAE 2500, 2-SAE 2600, 1-Buttkicker BKA 1000N w/2-tactile transducers. Sources: Sony BDP CX7000es, Sony CX300/CX400/CX450/CX455, SAE 8000 tuner, Akai 4000D R2R, Technics 1100A TT, Epson 8500UB with Carada 100". Speakers:Polk SDA SRS, 3.1TL, FXi5, FXi3, 2-SVS 20-29, Yamaha, SVS center sub. Power:2-Monster HTS3500, Furman M-8D & RR16 Plus. 2-SAE 4000 X-overs, SAE 5000a noise reduction, MSB Link DAC III, MSB Powerbase, Behringer 2496, Monarchy DIP 24/96.
  • Toka78
    Toka78 Posts: 192
    edited September 2006
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    I'd give those a try, and maybe try the Blue Jeans LC-1 IC's as well (less than half the capacitance at less than half the price)...both offer 30-day return policies so you can't lose.
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited October 2006
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited October 2006
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    univera wrote:
    I have personally used similar power via an Nad 7600 receiver, which has the Nad 2200A amp section on my SDA-SRS. It more than easily powered these large speakers. The 2200PE amp is a very similar amp with Power Envelope technology that will give you plenty of reserve power.

    I am biased towards NAD as it undersells and overdelivers in my experience. An Nad power rating may look lower than another, but in actuality and real world performance much greater than seemingly more powerful pieces.

    The NAD sound, IMO, is not bright and is a very natural, smooth sound. Plus, I like the protective Soft Clipping that protects you from blowing the tweets by rounding off the potentially damaging waves while in turn giving you a pleasing sound at the limits. If you are going to use two monoblocks for the subs, I would think two of these bridged babies would do you right! That's 400wpc at 8 ohms. These amps sometimes sell as little as $200-225 but usually get around $300.00 for mint models. Keep in mind we are talking about the 2200 itself, not the even better 2200PE. This would probably be a little cheaper than going the Adcom route with the 555's. I don't think you mentioned a budget which would probably get you better options.

    I can't speak personally for the Adcoms although they are beloved all over for "bang for your buck." I could be accussed of being an NAD head, but I just appreciate quality and performance for a great price (who doesnt'.)

    The NAD 2200 amps are comparable in price to the 555's, depending on the weather....The thread below mentions Adcom's being "grainy" and that may be what is being described in the link provided. Check out this recent classified that addresses a question I had about the Adcom and Nad pieces. Doro's advice is as straightforward as you will find and based on actually listening to the pieces in question. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43777 Post for the 2200 itself: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43786

    Dude, help me out here. I have the opportunity to snag two 2200 PE's from a local guy doing a garage sale. I have two Adcom GFA 565 mono block's with the Musical Concepts upgrades and power cord upgrades. I read all your posts and others concerning the NADs (I've owned 2200 PEs a long long time ago and liked them) and Adcoms. I'm thinking I would go with the Adcoms on the low freqs of the 1.2 TLs and bi-amp the 2200 PEs on the highs. I need help on how to actually wire them coming out of the preamp. I have a Spectral DMC 10 and am going to use the AC coupled outputs for this rig. I spoke to Spectral and they suggested using the AC coupled outs with this rig because the DC coupled outs would reek havoc with anything less in quality than a Spectal amp . . . whatever . . . don't think I'm spending $25K on a Spectral power amp to find out how the DC coupled outputs sound.

    Now I know I can tie the grounds & chasis of the Adcoms together. I believe I don't need to tie the NADs grounds together for the high freqs . . . is that correct?

    After coming out of the preamp do I use a Y connector to split the signal to each channel, one to the left Adcom the other to the left NAD and visa versa? I would then connect each left amp to the proper posts on the left 1.2 TL and visa versa . . . does that sound about right????

    Hope I didn't confuse ya here. . . I probably need to know by Thursday night whether I am going to pull the trigger on the PEs. . .BTW it looks like they are in near mint condition. . . very clean . . . no cigarette residue anywhere, the guy let me pop the top, very clean inside. He's checking the used prices on the website before commiting to a price. . . so I'm holding my breath here.

    Thanks,:)
    Joe
  • univera
    univera Posts: 848
    edited October 2006
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    Joe, this is out of my league as I am getting ready to do my first bi-amp using just two amps, not four, as you look to be doing. There are plenty here that can provide your answers. That combo seems to make sense in my limited knowledge since the NAD is more refined and would seem better served on the highs, where smoother sound is more in demand.

    Doro said the Adcoms have higher end dynamics and the bass is power hungry, so those make sense there. The biggest thing to me is that the NAD's have soft clipping that will protect the most vulnerable speaker, the tweeter. I am sure help will be coming soon...Let me know if you need another 2200 as mine is likely going to be sold. Then you could find one more, sell the Adcoms, and go with all four NAD's...
    UNIVERA
    Historic Charleston SC

    2 Channel:
    SDA-SRS's RDO tweets
    Biamped Anthem 2 SE's w/1970's NOS Siemens CCA's
    Anthem Pre 2L w/E.harmonix platinum matched 6H23's
    CDP- NAD C 542



    HT setup:
    AVR: NAD T 773
    Rears: Polk LC80i
    DVD: Toshiba 3109 dual tray
    Subs: Velodyne and M&K
    T.V.: Sony KDL-52XBR4 w/Vans Evers Clean Line Jr.
    Conditioner: Panamax M5100EX

    Master Bedroom Sony 40KDL-XBR3

    "I love it when a plan comes together." Hannibal Smith, The A-Team
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited October 2006
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    Thanks pal!
    Joe
  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited October 2006
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    F1nut wrote:
    MIT, the last cable you'll ever need.

    I totally agree.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D