How to actualy hear the SDA's at their best WITHOUT expensive mods

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  • mhw58
    mhw58 Posts: 359
    edited June 2006
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    [QUOTE=
    I have read and heard in several places over the years about how toeing the speakers in can help with the center image.After years of scoffing at this idea(i mean they ARE supposed to be facing straight ahead RIGHT:confused: )
    i tried it by toeing them in one inch.

    The verdict?

    IT WORKS! NOT ONLY did the center image become more focused.The lateral images became more defined as well!!!!!


    Very interesting! I've never heard of anyone toeing in the SDA's. Anyone else tried this and if so, what did it do to the imaging?
    Thanks, Mike
    Fronts: SDA1C's
    Rears: SDA2's
    Center:CS400i
    Sub: PSW505
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited June 2006
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    SDA series speakers use a phase compensation system wherein the bass/midrange (stereo) drivers are recessed relative to the tweeters.

    Recessing the stereo drivers results in a tilting of the effective axis of acoustic radiation by an angle of 20 degrees towards the listener. Therefore, toe-in is already built into SDA speakers.

    I have read other reports where toeing in SDA's subjectively improved the sound. However, these were situations where the recommended placement from side walls was impractical and toeing in the speakers served to reduce side wall reflections.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited June 2006
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    exactly..........I definetely cannot stand my SDA's toed in, to each situation its own, which is why each set up is unique as it works within the most important part of the system, the space.

    RT1
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  • honestaquarian
    honestaquarian Posts: 3,186
    edited June 2006
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    Read my signature quote below and try it for yourselves.If you do not like the toe in then move them back to straight.I ONLY toed them in 1 inch.Which isn't much of a toe in.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2006
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    Whatever blows up your skirt. Mine sound better firing straight fwd.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • honestaquarian
    honestaquarian Posts: 3,186
    edited June 2006
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    TroyD wrote:
    Whatever blows up your skirt. Mine sound better firing straight fwd.

    BDT
    Did you ACTUALLY TRY toeing them in at any point to see if you could here a difference?To each his own man.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited June 2006
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    I have to say that mine sound best sitting in a box in the basement.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • honestaquarian
    honestaquarian Posts: 3,186
    edited June 2006
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    dorokusai wrote:
    I have to say that mine sound best sitting in a box in the basement.
    OY!
    Passing out oi am heyah!
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2006
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    honestaquarian wrote:
    Did you ACTUALLY TRY toeing them in at any point to see if you could here a difference?To each his own man.

    Yes, matter of fact, I have.

    You might want to wrap your head around the fact that there are others here who do have more than a passing knowledge of audio in general and SDA in particular.

    Now, do you ACTUALLY TRY to sound like a pompous jackass all the time or do you vary the distortion levels to see if we can tell the difference?

    MINE sound better firing straight ahead, thank you. No qualifiers required.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • honestaquarian
    honestaquarian Posts: 3,186
    edited June 2006
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    Shame on you.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2006
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    Yeah, shame on me.

    Look, Who the hell are you to question me on how my speakers sound better?

    Weren't you blathering about infering tone and so forth? Using that same line of reasoning, who are you to infer what I may or may not have tried? Far as my wisecrack goes, I thought it was funny, that's how I meant it. **** for tat. You should not infer that I meant to insult you. ;)

    If you want to think of yourself as the resident SDA guru, fine, but that doesn't mean we have to swallow the attitude as well.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2006
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    Sean has a good point.It isn't up to anyone to judge his"tone" with the exception of the site administrators.This site was put up for ALL OF US FOR FREE.If someone does not like a particular posting,or someone's"tone" then they have the freedom of choice to simply move on to the next post.You can say (or type)the exact same thing to five different people and get between two and five different interpretations of the meaning.It doesn't mean those interpretations are correct,but tell THAT to the people who are doing the intepreting.It NEVER ceases to amaze me how many people think they know what is going on in the mind of a total stranger.And ya can't tell 'em no different.`Cause the KNOW what they are talking about!!!!

    Just in case you forgot what you posted......if it applies to you.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • scottnbnj
    scottnbnj Posts: 709
    edited June 2006
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    couldn't all of this just have something to do with the size of your head?

    i mean, room and placement considerations aside, if polk designed the distance between drivers to have some rough correlation to the distance between most folks' ears,.. folks with particularly fat heads might get better results with sda's toed out, where folks with particularly skinny heads might get better results with them toed in.

    just a thought.

    )
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  • honestaquarian
    honestaquarian Posts: 3,186
    edited June 2006
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    Troy
    I am not the one with the attitude here.You are the one chasing me all over this site and responding to my posts with insults and taking the time to try and throw my words back in my face.Don't you have ANYTHING else better to do with your time?LET IT GO AND MOVE ON!I asked you a simple question and you answered it.Thank you and good day.Stop chasing me around this site,put the police badge away and find something else better to do with your time.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2006
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    Replies in TWO threads constitutes chasing?

    Hey, they are your words.....if you choose not to take your own advice, that's your issue. Did you ACTUALLY TRY to follow your own advice?

    I simply offered my opinion on MY speakers, YOU are the one who felt the need to question me in BOLD letters....and I responded in kind. Also, I didn't insult you. It isn't up to you to judge my tone. You said it, It's a couple posts above in case you forgot.

    At this point, today? No, I don't really have anything better to do.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • honestaquarian
    honestaquarian Posts: 3,186
    edited June 2006
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    Youre boring me little boy.I am done babysitting.I ACTUALLY DO have something better to do with my time.Have a good day son!This subject is closed and you are DISMISSED.
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited June 2006
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    scottnbnj wrote:
    couldn't all of this just have something to do with the size of your head?

    i mean, room and placement considerations aside, if polk designed the distance between drivers to have some rough correlation to the distance between most folks' ears,.. folks with particularly fat heads might get better results with sda's toed out, where folks with particularly skinny heads might get better results with them toed in.

    just a thought.

    )

    I have a pretty fat head, wish I still had my sda1b's to test the theory :D


    FWIW, i tried a slight toe in, between 1/2" to an inch" and it just didnt sound right. I tried it before common knowlege here stated that toe in was not a good idea. My impression was, they were right. to each his own
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2006
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    honestaquarian wrote:
    Youre boring me little boy.I am done babysitting.I ACTUALLY DO have something better to do with my time.Have a good day son!This subject is closed and you are DISMISSED.

    I'm having a splendid day, I always do.

    The SDA guru has spoken so there is nothing left to say, right? I like you guys that make up the rules as you go. The really fun part is when you ignore the ones you already made when it doesn't suit you.

    EDIT: I thought I'd throw this little tidbit out there as well:
    If someone does not like a particular posting,or someone's"tone" then they have the freedom of choice to simply move on to the next post

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited June 2006
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    honestaquarian wrote:
    Youre boring me little boy.I am done babysitting.I ACTUALLY DO have something better to do with my time.Have a good day son!This subject is closed and you are DISMISSED.


    is that a dismissal with 2 snaps and a "talk to the hand"?

    possibly the worst come back I've seen in an internet chatroom :rolleyes:
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • honestaquarian
    honestaquarian Posts: 3,186
    edited June 2006
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    It's good to see this thread is back on track.I used to scoff at the idea of toeing them in until i tried it.It worked for me in my situation.If it didn't work for others then that's great as well.The whole purpose of this thread was to(hopefully)get people to try something else if they hadn't already.Also to open(sane)dialog.To a lerge extent it has worked.CHEERS!
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2006
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    ohskigod wrote:
    is that a dismissal with 2 snaps and a "talk to the hand"?

    possibly the worst come back I've seen in an internet chatroom :rolleyes:

    The follow up post was even worse. I thought we were DISMISSED

    I mean, what the hell, he can't reconcile his words/actions so might as well just plow, right?

    I think he picked up liv4fam's big bag.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited June 2006
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    TroyD wrote:

    I think he picked up liv4fam's big bag.

    BDT


    I miss that dude :D
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2006
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    Now THAT was a funny guy.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2006
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    honestaquarian wrote:
    It's good to see this thread is back on track.I used to scoff at the idea of toeing them in until i tried it.It worked for me in my situation.If it didn't work for others then that's great as well.The whole purpose of this thread was to(hopefully)get people to try something else if they hadn't already.Also to open(sane)dialog.To a lerge extent it has worked.CHEERS!

    lerge?

    About that spell check thing......

    You know, I actually applaud the intent here. What I find distasteful is the attitude that we are a bunch of morons who've been wandering aimlessly without capability for independent thought until he comes on the scene. Amazing how we've managed to get along without him for all this time. Condescending people rock. Easy targets.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited June 2006
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    ohskigod wrote:
    I have a pretty fat head, wish I still had my sda1b's to test the theory :D


    FWIW, i tried a slight toe in, between 1/2" to an inch" and it just didnt sound right. I tried it before common knowlege here stated that toe in was not a good idea. My impression was, they were right. to each his own

    Eh, I tried it with those same speakers and it didn't help and I had a pretty "ideal" room. Hence, I sold them to you! SUCKA! ;)
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited June 2006
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    Nice!
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited June 2006
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    The only thing that a slight toe-in did, for my PROPERLY set up SRS2s, was lessen the sweet spot. I'll go with what the man in the white lab coat suggests, thanks.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,080
    edited June 2006
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    Nice to see he (honestaq....) is an equal opportunity moron. Multi-dimensional morons provide much more entertainment value. When you reach a depth of six feet feel free to lay down with your arms folded across your chest and go to sleep.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • higgins79
    higgins79 Posts: 72
    edited June 2006
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    i am not the most knowledgable person when it come to all the audio jargon here so iam gonna ask what is probably a real stupid question. the "sweet spot" you guys are talking about, are you guys just using your ears for this or is there some kind of electronic dohicky that will find it for me.
    TV ................Sony kdl52xbr4
    Reciever ........Denon AVR 988
    Amp -............Monster MPA 2250
    Bluray............Sony PS3 (80gig)
    Hddvd............xbox 360 Hddvd
    Power centers.Monster 3600II & 2600II & 1600 x2
    Voltage..........Monster AVS 2000
    Fronts ...........polk Rti12s
    Center ..........polk Csi5
    Rears.............polk Fxi5s
    Sub ..............Infinity PS12
    cables............Monster / DIY
    Video games...XBOX 360 / Wii
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,798
    edited June 2006
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    Hilarious
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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