New Tweeters Installed, Smooooth At Last!

Options
2»

Comments

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,823
    edited November 2005
    Options
    There are a lot of things listed on the parts/price lists that are not available. Polk hasn't changed those lists in years.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,823
    edited November 2005
    Options
    H9,

    I've been looking over the RTA 11T schematic and it appears to be more than just, "the TL has (1) less resistor across the tweeter. The (TL) has a 0.3mH inductor only, where as the (T) has a 0.4mH inductor amd 2.7 Ohm 5w resistor."

    The 11T uses two 12uF caps per board, no 16uF.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,090
    edited November 2005
    Options
    F1nut wrote:
    H9,

    I've been looking over the RTA 11T schematic and it appears to be more than just, "the TL has (1) less resistor across the tweeter. The (TL) has a 0.3mH inductor only, where as the (T) has a 0.4mH inductor amd 2.7 Ohm 5w resistor."

    The 11T uses two 12uF caps per board, no 16uF.

    Yes that is correct. When I asked the question I was just speaking about eliminated parts or extra parts not specific values. I shouldn't have said "The only difference" because that was misleading. My bad. Both have the same # of caps, but different values. I guess I didn't make myself clear on that, sorry. In the parts list I posted for the 11TL you'll see the different value caps listed.

    Yes, I was planning on replacing all parts in the 11T x-over with parts of the correct value for the 11TL. Do you see any other issues I should be concerned with? Before I start this project I will still check with Ken about the schematic I have and make sure it's 100% correct. It still bothers me that on the 11TL schem, the poly switches are not indicated and a resistor is eliminated/missing across the tweeter.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,823
    edited November 2005
    Options
    Ok, just to clarify here's a side by side.

    11T per board

    (2) 12uF cap
    (1) 34uF cap
    (1) 2 ohm 5 watt resistor
    (1) 2.7 ohm 5 watt resistor

    11TL per board

    (1) 12uF cap
    (1) 16uF cap
    (1) 34uF cap
    (1) 1.5 ohm 5 watt resistor

    The 11T uses a 0.4mH inductor while the 11TL uses a 0.3mH. The difference is slight, so it's up to you if you want to change that too. As noted, there is no polyswitch indicated on the 11TL schematic. A simple check would be to look at your crossover.

    Personally, I think with the new tweeters the differences between the two models will be very slight and probably not worth fussing about.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,090
    edited November 2005
    Options
    F1nut wrote:
    Ok, just to clarify here's a side by side.

    11T per board

    (2) 12uF cap
    (1) 34uF cap
    (1) 2 ohm 5 watt resistor
    (1) 2.7 ohm 5 watt resistor

    11TL per board

    (1) 12uF cap
    (1) 16uF cap
    (1) 34uF cap
    (1) 1.5 ohm 5 watt resistor

    As noted, there is no polyswitch indicated on the 11TL schematic. A simple check would be to look at your crossover.

    Those parts are correct according to my schematic's. I don't have the TL model so I can't check the crossover for poly switches. I'm sure the TL's have poly switches, don't you think :confused: .

    Does it make sense to you Jesse for them to omit the resistor across the tweeter in the "TL" model ?

    Thanks
    Brock
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,090
    edited November 2005
    Options
    Alright I may be jumping a head here since I haven't talked to Ken, but suppose the schematic for the "TL" is correct and there is no resistor across the tweeter. My model "T" crossover board has a 2.7 ohm 5w resistor across the tweeter in series with a 0.4mH inductor. If I choose to update my "T" crossover to the "TL" what's the best way to jump/connect the resistor holes in the "T" crossover board to make it a complete circuit if a resistor is not needed (as indicated on the "TL" schematic)?

    Jesse, maybe I'm making this way too much trouble. It's probably best just to keep it stock with the correct parts and tweeter for the upgrade. You already stated there will probably be very little difference between the two replacement tweeters anyways.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,823
    edited November 2005
    Options
    Does it make sense to you Jesse for them to omit the resistor across the tweeter in the "TL" model ?

    Who am I to question the Polk Gods!?!
    what's the best way to jump/connect the resistor holes in the "T" crossover board to make it a complete circuit if a resistor is not needed (as indicated on the "TL" schematic)?

    Use a wire jumper, just solder the ends in the holes.



    I seem to recall someone else mentioning that the 11TL didn't have the polyswitches. Talk to Ken tomorrow.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,090
    edited November 2005
    Options
    F1nut wrote:
    Who am I to question the Polk Gods!?!

    I thought you were one of the Polk Gods....or as close as could be :D .

    Thanks for the input

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cj4qts
    cj4qts Posts: 14
    edited November 2005
    Options
    I have a copy of the RTA-11tl schematics right from Polk if anyone wants them.

    Andy
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,090
    edited November 2005
    Options
    cj4qts wrote:
    I have a copy of the RTA-11tl schematics right from Polk if anyone wants them.

    Andy

    Andy, thanks for the offer I have them ("T" & "TL") as well. Are you or did you already upgrade x-overs? I'd be interested in the results and post any info/pics you might have.

    Thanks

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,090
    edited November 2005
    Options
    Also for the record and future reference. Peersool (Victor) talked to Ken and he felt nothing would be gained by upgrading the RTA-11T x-overs to RTA-11TL x-overs and using the corresponding replacement tweeter. So I'm leaving mine alone and just upgrading with the correct parts and replacement tweeter.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    edited November 2005
    Options
    Parts (Solen caps ,Mills resistors, RDO194-1 tweeters, and polyswitches) ordered yesterday. Thanks for your help Rich, Ken, & Jesse!

    H9 - Add (2) 1.0uF 400V caps to your list fot the 11t upgrade. You will have to piggyback the 33 and 1.0 on the board. That means you tie (solder) the leads from both together to end up with the 34uF required - per Jesse's instructions
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vanman
    vanman Posts: 21
    edited December 2005
    Options
    Hi,

    Got a reply from Ken:

    Most enthusiasts have found that the new RD0194-1 sounds better than the original and will work with the 11T crossover, eliminating the need for crossover changes. In other words, you would have the same results as making the changes to the crossover and going to the RD0198-1 without needing to modify the crossover.

    What do you gurus think? As I plan to buy the 11TL crossovers with the RD0198-1s. Or should I just stay with Ken's advice.

    Thanks in advance...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    edited December 2005
    Options
    vanman wrote:
    Hi,

    Got a reply from Ken:

    Most enthusiasts have found that the new RD0194-1 sounds better than the original and will work with the 11T crossover, eliminating the need for crossover changes. In other words, you would have the same results as making the changes to the crossover and going to the RD0198-1 without needing to modify the crossover.

    What do you gurus think? As I plan to buy the 11TL crossovers with the RD0198-1s. Or should I just stay with Ken's advice.

    Thanks in advance...

    They don't sell the crossovers anymore. :( Just use the RDO194-1's and rebuild your crossovers. I did and I'm happy with the results. YMMV Good luck :)
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vanman
    vanman Posts: 21
    edited December 2005
    Options
    peersool wrote:
    They don't sell the crossovers anymore. :( Just use the RDO194-1's and rebuild your crossovers. I did and I'm happy with the results. YMMV Good luck :)

    Thanks for the reply. Do you have the part numbers and parts list for the 11TL crossovers. Perhaps i can get someone here to help do it for me. :)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    edited December 2005
    Options
    vanman wrote:
    Thanks for the reply. Do you have the part numbers and parts list for the 11TL crossovers. Perhaps i can get someone here to help do it for me. :)

    I don't have a list for the 11tl crossover but you can ask Ken to send you a shematic for the 11tl or - if you know what to look for - unscrew the binding post plate on the back of the cabinet - the crossover is on the other side - and look at the values on the caps and resistor(s). My 11t's use polyswitches the 15tl's do not. The 11t's use two different 5 watt resistors the 15tl only uses one resistor. Good luck :)
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,090
    edited December 2005
    Options
    I have a scan of the 11TL cross over if you need it. I scanned it full size so it's a big file. PM me with your e-mail if you want it Vanman.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vanman
    vanman Posts: 21
    edited December 2005
    Options
    What do you all think of the comments made to me :- "Most enthusiasts have found that the new RD0194-1 sounds better than the original and will work with the 11T crossover, eliminating the need for crossover changes. In other words, you would have the same results as making the changes to the crossover and going to the RD0198-1 without needing to modify the crossover."

    Do you guys think it is worth it to just modify the 11T xovers to 11TL and get the RD0198-1 tweeters, or just stay with the 11T xovers and get the RD0194-1.

    Thanks for your help :) Anyone able to do up 2 x 11TL xovers I can pay you :) of coz nothing is free hehe.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,823
    edited December 2005
    Options
    Perhaps you could try the new RD0194-1 tweeters to see if the improvement is satisfactory to your ears before spending more money on the TL conversion.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,090
    edited December 2005
    Options
    vanman wrote:
    What do you all think of the comments made to me :- "Most enthusiasts have found that the new RD0194-1 sounds better than the original and will work with the 11T crossover, eliminating the need for crossover changes. In other words, you would have the same results as making the changes to the crossover and going to the RD0198-1 without needing to modify the crossover."

    Do you guys think it is worth it to just modify the 11T xovers to 11TL and get the RD0198-1 tweeters, or just stay with the 11T xovers and get the RD0194-1.

    Thanks for your help :) Anyone able to do up 2 x 11TL xovers I can pay you :) of coz nothing is free hehe.

    Since the comment came from Ken I would listen to his advice, he is Da Man :) . I was going to do the same thing you are thinking with my RTA-11t's but decided it wasn't going to be of any benefit. So, just rebuild your current x-overs and get the RD0194-1's and you'll be amazed at the transformation. (Got your e-mail) I'll send you the schematic for the "TL" tonight, then you can decide if you still want to persue the upgrade to the "TL". Follow Jesse's (F1Nut) advice as well, as he knows what he's talking about. He's helped walk many Polkers thru electronic upgrades.

    Of course, if you like the way they sound now, just leave 'em alone and continue to enjoy. :)

    H9

    EDIT: For that matter just leave the x-overs alone and just replace the tweeters, that will amaze you as well!
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    edited December 2005
    Options
    heiney9 wrote:
    EDIT: For that matter just leave the x-overs alone and just replace the tweeters, that will amaze you as well!
    I just replaced the sl3000's on my 15tl's with the RDO198-1's and the sound is much smoother. :D I haven't done the crossovers on the 15tl's yet but I did them on my 11t's after I replaced the sl2500's with the RDO194-1's. I noticed a bigger improvement with the tweeter upgrade than I did with the crossover upgrade. :eek: YMMV. Good luck :)
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • vanman
    vanman Posts: 21
    edited December 2005
    Options
    Thanks all for your advice. I'll order the tweeters and see how it goes from there.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,823
    edited March 2006
    Options
    As long as the original seal is in good condition there's no need to change it. All the tweeters screws that I've seen are "cone heads" as you say, so yes, change them.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter