Common Ground question

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Vinaceus
Vinaceus Posts: 5
edited January 2006 in Troubleshooting
To drive SDA speakers one requires amplification that is common
ground. My question is how can you tell? I can tell you who doesn't
use common ground. SONY. How about Yamaha? I'm afraid to hook
up my 2.3's.

I am so frustrated with Polk for this design. I have gone through
three sets of SDA's and now need new drivers yet again. How much
to replace the tweeters in my 2.3's? How much for the mid's? I love
these speakers so much and yet it seems they have never loved me back.
Post edited by Vinaceus on
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  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,408
    edited January 2006
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    What model Sony are you talking about? Seems hard to believe Sony has/had a mono block design.

    What do you mean you have been through three set of SDA's, the drivers?

    What are you doing to them?

    The mids and tweeters are about 50.00 each delivered
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited January 2006
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    Un plug your amp.

    Using a VOM set it to measure resistance and if it shows a short(0) then it is a common grould amp.

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • thehaens@cox.net
    thehaens@cox.net Posts: 1,012
    edited January 2006
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    HBomb is referring to running a volt meter across the negative speaker terminals and checking for (0) resistance across the posts. Or something close to zero, your meter may be slightly out of tolerance.

    I have a Sony receiver, and it is def. common ground.......HMMM

    Scott
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,832
    edited January 2006
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    Sounds to me a case of too little power rather than one of common ground issues.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,091
    edited January 2006
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    Non-Common ground is not very common, especially for most entry-level to mid-level gear. I'm thinking you have other issues. More info is needed. In the future you should easily be able to contact the manufacturer of said amp and they should know for certain. What other amplifiers did you have trouble with? What model is you Sony amp? Perhaps some of the early ES seperates were dual-mono design, not sure though.

    I posted this question to the DIYAUDIO forum and this is what info they had...it may or may not be of any benefit

    http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65855&highlight=

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited January 2006
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    F1nut wrote:
    Sounds to me a case of too little power rather than one of common ground issues.

    +1 on that thought and welcome to the Forums.

    1) Over-driving with under-power sounds quite possible.
    2) Shouldn't have a common ground problem with a Yamaha amp.
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  • Vinaceus
    Vinaceus Posts: 5
    edited January 2006
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    Keep in mind this story is over the course of 15 years or so. The Sony in question was a 909ES receiver. Nothing but problems
    from the thing since the day I bought it. NEW I might add and back then
    it was quite a bit for my budget.

    Picked up a Hafler XL600 later which I ran through the receiver and had the same problem blowing
    tweeters mostly. I never played stupid kept the volume control low, never
    past the 1/4 mark.

    Speakers never sounded good. Never.

    I sold my first set of 2.3TL's because of this.


    Bought a set of Dahlquist DQ-10's next. Sounded great, no stupid volume
    shananigans...for a while.


    Left DQ-10 fries. Sony 909ES meets horrible end.


    Feel guilty and buy 2nd pair of 2.3TL's and six tweeters later curse my
    fate again and again. God listens this time and my house that I rented
    burns to the ground taking my 2.3's with it. Did I mention I didn't have
    renters insurance?


    Three years later somehow I find a third set of 2.3's not TL's and manage to buy them. Save money for another six months and buy a Yamaha RX-V992 receiver and
    guess what? Blown tweeters! Don't know if they were that way when I bought
    them or what but I am now at the end of my rope, broke and have a set of
    2.3's neglected and I after THREE sets have never found my dream that I
    have persued since the first time I heard these babies on the floor of Tri Cities Electronics.


    I don't even know if it's fate having it's way with me or what. At $50 a pop
    it'll take me forever to hear what I've been yearning to hear for so long.


    Sorry for the sporatic violin story but dang! All I've ever wanted was a pair
    of SDA's to sound like I remember.
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited January 2006
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    Damn, that does suck. Your luck that is.

    You might need to run a flux capacitor between your recvr and speakers from now on.





























    :p
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,832
    edited January 2006
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    All receivers, by nature, are common ground. You rule that out and you can rule out the speakers, so what does that leave?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited January 2006
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    If Distortion is caused by clipping of the frequency wave
    And clipping occurs when when the P/S cannnot push enough current
    And a lack of required current causes the driver to heat up
    And excessive heat causes the driver to fail
    Then the distorting unit needs to be replaced.

    RT1

    Been a while since logic class but something like that.
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,328
    edited January 2006
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    F1nut wrote:
    All receivers, by nature, are common ground. You rule that out and you can rule out the speakers, so what does that leave?

    Bad Luck! You can find used SL2000 tweeters in the Flea Market from time to time. They usually go for about $20 each. The replacement RD-0194s are much better but you may want to consider some used one before you invest in new ones. Good luck! and welcome to the Forum!
    Carl

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,832
    edited January 2006
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    Odd, two posts and bam, gone! Oh, the trolls I've known.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • JCL
    JCL Posts: 113
    edited January 2006
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    I thought that using the wrong type of amp with SDA's would damage the amp.
    L600 (front), R200 (rear), R200 (rear surround), L400 (center), Sunfire HRS-10 (2)Marantz AV7706Sunfire Cinema Grand, Marantz M8077, Music Hall Stealth, Ortofon bronze cartridge, Parasound Zphono XRM, Sony UBP-X800
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited January 2006
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    JCL wrote:
    I thought that using the wrong type of amp with SDA's would damage the amp.

    Correct. Running a NCG amp can damage the amp. There is the potential for driver damage too.

    Vin was blowing drivers left and right which sounds like a problem of them being overdriven by a clipping amp.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited January 2006
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    Sure is hard to blow a tweeter unless you use stupidly overdriven distorted signals. Even then, the polyfuse should be shutting down most of the time. Are you sure they blew? Maybe you were not waiting for the fuse to reset?
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • warren
    warren Posts: 756
    edited January 2006
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    I drove my 2.3's with a Sony STR-DE985 for a year or so , had no problems except for some clipping, got a Carver amp.and a pre amp, now evervthing is great. Get seprates.
    Some final words,
    "If you keep banging your head against the wall,
    you're going to have headaches."
    Warren
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