Tube amps! Why use them?
nascarmann
Posts: 1,464
This is something I know very little or next to nothing about. What are the pros and cons with tube amps? How do power ratings compare? Is 50wpc tube the same as 50wpc SS? It would seem to me the 50 wpc tube must punch harder? Will it? Someone jump in here and tell me about tubes? (madmax, BDT, Russmann, hoosier21 and the rest)
Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
Post edited by nascarmann on
Comments
Tubes you have to maintain, buying new tubes about once a year depending on how much you run them.They also sound better after they have been on for awhile.They need to be hot inorder to sound fantastic.
I wouldn't buy a amp just because it was tubes or not.Sound quality with your speakers"Mating"is how you buy an amp.
Solid state and tubes today are very good.Not as many tube amps on the market as solid state.
They do look cool don't they!
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
pros:
- the "tube sound" (warmer, smoother, etc.)
- cool factor
cons:
- tubes wear out
- amp has to warm up to get optimal sound quality
No. I'm not sure that there is a magic conversion number. It's pretty rare that you'll see any tube amps above 100W, and if you do, they'll cost you a bundle. It seems like decently powerful tube amps run in the 30-50W range.
Aaron
Tubes have are known to be able to drive difficult loads (ie. 2 ohm loads) and produce a soft-clipping. This is usually not detrimental and can be treated as "oh well, it's just not there". SS usually hard-clip. They continue to send the full force of music and wind-up blowing a speaker. Most of us will agree that most speakers are blown by inadequate amplifiers (they clip before the sound wave is completed) that have no dynamic range. My 100wt (x)rcvr blew a 175w speaker, while a 30w speaker didn't even distort. I've never heard of anybody blowing a speaker on tubes.
I've heard people say that X watts tubes is equal to 2 or 3 watts SS. This may be attributed to the extended dynamic range.
All speakers have a continuously changing impedence. Damn that nominable BS. Some vary more or less than others. This degree of variance can dictate the benefits of a quality amp. The greater the variance the more a tube or expensive SS amp is needed to compensate. Theoretically a speaker with a straight impedence would sound identical with any amplifier able to drive it to it's full potential (shear watttage).
Depending on your usage, some tubes can last a number of years. But I would suggest something that can be easily replaced. Don't buy something that can only be replaced with NOS. Electro-harmonix makes some splendid replacement tubes.
-R
Peace Out~:D
Ron dislikes a film = go out and buy it.
Ron loves a film = don't even rent.
Cheers,
Russ
Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
Outlaw ICBM - crossover
Beringher BFD - sub eq
Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
The reason we hear cleaner, warmer and lower noise by the tube is that a tube requires no bias voltage to amplify, "It is always ready". In a transistor we dope the wafer with either plus or minus dopants and the Bias, or voltage potential across the junction is what causes electron flow. As the sine wave crosses through 0 Volts within the bias region the semiconductor shuts off. So in an AB type amp or Push/Pull there is a brief moment in which nothing happens. "Distortion of the signal". Without getting into some really cookie stuff, in short, "HATS OFF TO OLD TECHNOLOGY".
HOPE THIS HELPS A LITTLE:)
Dumb it up a little HBomb, peel the onion, break it on down....
Cheers,
Russ
BDT
Yeah,
You got sum splanin to do
Pros:
You can hear many more small sounds (detail) at the same time.
They sound better when you look at them.
They respond well to tweaks.
They scare off the normal Best Buy audiophile.
They warm the heart and the hands on a cold day.
Cons:
You have to wait 30 to 40 minutes before they really sound good.
They should be replaced after about 3000 hours.
The AC comes on more often.
You can hear the SS distortion clearly after a good listening session with tubes.
madmax
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
Aaron
What about a class A, or non-switching SS amp? Is the purpose to emulate a "tube" sound? Don't tube amps generally have a low damping factor, making it difficult to produce tight, hard-hitting bass? Just curious. I could probably research that and come up with my own answer, but I'm lazy and figure it's easier to just ask.
Jason
Power cycling a tube is good for the manufacturer but bad for the user.
A Tube has a cathode which becomes a source for electrons due to heat. Its called a thermionic emmitter. A substance such as Barium Oxide, to list only 1, on a sheet of say Nickle becomes a great cathode. As the potential from the grid, or multiple grids, is applied, from the input signal, electrons due to the EMF move in the direction of the +Plate. "High current low noise AMPS are a result." There are differences between quatrodes and pentodes as to the grid geometry but they all fundamentally work the same. The whole deal is... A tube is always ready when HOT, NO waite time, and the more we turn the tube on/off the more stress we put in the glass. If oxigen gets in the glass the tube is HISTORY or, say, the barium oxide is no longer an emmitter.
I just got off my hall pass in which many BEERS were consumed so please excuse my rampage.
Hbomb
Yumm..tubes.
Receiver - VSX-54TX
Mains - Csi40's
Sub - Spiked Velodyne Cht-8 On Spiked Landscaping Stones
"If you could put speakers in a needle, I'd never see him again..." - My Girlfriend
Receiver - VSX-54TX
Mains - Csi40's
Sub - Spiked Velodyne Cht-8 On Spiked Landscaping Stones
"If you could put speakers in a needle, I'd never see him again..." - My Girlfriend
Your knowledge is amazing in this area. Could you try explaining this as if you were talking to..........oh lets say a 7 year old so I can keep up!
BDN
I will go with TUBES as long as the POOL don't bankrupt me.
madmax
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
When you say 'raised ceilings' to get rid of 90 deg. corners, exactly what do you plan on modifying structurally?? Or are you building a room from scratch?
Receiver - VSX-54TX
Mains - Csi40's
Sub - Spiked Velodyne Cht-8 On Spiked Landscaping Stones
"If you could put speakers in a needle, I'd never see him again..." - My Girlfriend
HBomb
Was not saying it was useless. Just hard for my big heed and little mind to follow.....:D
Sure I miss the sound, beauty, and aura of the tubes, but to tell the truth I think a lot of todays solid state electronics have improved over the years to actually give tubes a bit of a run for the money.:)
LiquidSound
I would hope to build the room from scratch. "I Hope". The wife likes the idea so maybe:)
A Tubes Life
When we rated the life of a tube it was under maximum load. The 2 mechanisms that are responsible for a tubes demise is a leak or the cathode shoots craps. If we leave them on not under load then the cathode is in a quiescent state and no loss of cathode material. As we turn the tube on and off the expansion/contraction of the glass can leed to a leak.
In our test units for some of the real high power stuff we never shut the modulators down, just let them glow nice and pretty like, and the tubes lasted for 4 or 5 times the rated life.
I think that ziplin makes a great point regarding Tubes vrs Semiconductors. The relatively new mosfet technologies really, really good stuff.
Yeah man thats what I'm talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HBombToo,
Kepp it coming man ............I'm sucking it all up......my man!!
Leave that alone you sick F%%%S
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
HBombToo
The mosfet technology is good if you are not building a high powered amp.....and bipolar is still the technology used in most high end units. Cost is the biggest factor with the mosfet against bipolar....less engineering costs with the mosfet? Mosfet amps will not drive low impendence loads like bipolar amps will at high power levels......if you intend to drive speakers such as the SDA-SRS or 1.2's a mosfet amp would not be the right choice IMO.....they do not like low impendece loads......