Def Tech Subwoofers

mantis wrote:

I may have been alittle rash in my last post, but I see someone got my meaning without taking offense.

Many will push what they think is the right choice due to there experience. SVS while it is what it is ... is something I have experienced twice and have a completely different opnion then most.

Dan

Mantis,

Your point was pretty clear to me, I guess I'm just "thick skinned." Actually your to-the-point if not a little blunt statment is why I replyed. I too have had much experience with SVS, I like them for what they are, I just don't think they are the end-all of subwoofers.

Please don't be afraid to voice your obviously well-educated opinion, if people don't want to hear it, they shouldn't post quesitons or read this or any forum for that matter.

mrorem

gregure wrote:

Pardon me, but I think that's total B.S. In my experience, people who "don't care" about the details haven't even heard of Def Tech, or most other brands for that matter. People who don't care, such as people that I need to explain what 5.1 or DTS means on a daily basis, are even less brand savvy. People who do care, and know what brands to look for, are familiar with the +/- 3 dB concept, and I think that Def Tech's failure to list +/- 3 responses in favor of only overall are misleading the public by omission. Literally EVERY OTHER sub brand I've ever encountered published +/- 3 if not +/- 1 or 2. Some will list overall and +/- 3 such as Polk. My only point is that when there is a relatively consistent pattern of listings among subs, Def Tech, I think, skirts the issue by only listing overall response, which could mean 20 Hz at - 20dB for all we know. And I'm certainly familiar with the concept that some manufacturers target a certain market, such as HT, rather than others, but why should anyone waste money on a HT sub that's crappy for music when they can get a sub for near the same money that is better for both? Just because a sub is boomy and loud doesn't make it a great HT sub.

I agree that SVS is not the end all of subs, and I'm sure $4000 subs would beat out most of their models. Again, most on the forum recommend SVS for price vs performance, and in my opinion that is accurate. It would be pointless and impractical to recommend a REL Studio III or Martin Logan Descent, or Velodyne DD15 to someone with an Onkyo 801 and a Polk Rti speaker system. These would obviously be outside this person's budget, so why bring it up?

Gregure,

I agree with you about DefTech and for that matter any other company not disclosing they specifications with enough "detail." It is indeed VERY misleading, and borders on just down right lying. However, there are also many companies that do disclose +/- specs that are also based on the ILS (if lightning strikes) standard established my companies like Sony, Pioneer, and virtually all of the wanna-be hifi companies in the industry.

Unfortunately, there is no requirement for manufacturers to fully disclose their specifications when it comes to many aspects of our hobby (life).

While it might be out of the budget of many consumers, products like REL, Velodyne, Martin Logan, etc... certainly represent a MUCH higher level of performance than the products that may be a muche better value. Unfortunately with the decline of the B&M store fronts, and lack of knowledgable skilled sales associates that seem to plague the industry these days, many consumers are never even introduced to such products.

After working many years in the Home Audio/Video sales industry and being a consumer of Home Audio/Video for most of my adult life, I have come to one very important reality:

Hifi consumers are very different breed! We hifi consumers do not purchase any product because we "need" it, only because we "want it". How can we know for sure what we "want" if no one introduces it as an option. Most if not all hifi consumers can/would appreciate the difference in quality offered by "high-end" gear if given the opportunity to compare it.

I feel that the real problem in today's hifi retail industry is that due to consumer demand for "best price" most retailers have decided that they can make the profits necessary to train, and pay their sales staff properly. Big companies with deep pockets (Bestbuy, Circuit City, etc..) are buying up most of the companies that used to provide this level of service. Unfortuantely that leaves we the consumer with companies like Magnolia Home Theater (Best Buy) to educate us.

For instance, we just had our first Magnolia Home Theater store open on the 16th here in Alaska. Just for entertainment, I strolled in to check them out. Every sales person was virtually clueless, but representing products that REQUIRE a true professional to represent (Premaire, Martin Logan, Vienna Acoustics, Audioquest, etc...) One of the associates approached me as I was checking at the Martin Logan products on display and advised me that according to his training, Martin Logan would soon be adding an electro-static subwoofer to their product line-up. I held back the laughter, and then explained to him that not only was it all buy technically impossible, but that the panel for such a subwoofer wouldn't fit inside the entire store. He gave me the deer in the headlights look and left me be (which was what I was after in the first place.)

Sorry for the rant,

mrorem

TrappedUnder Ice wrote:

Interesting.... I demo'd an M&K system ...using first an M&K sub then A Def Tech sub...actually he brought 2 of the Def's in the room. I thought the Def Tech sub did an acceptional job on both HT and music. The M&K sub sounded a tad better...but compared to 2x the price tag of the Def Tech sub! I have not heard an SVS sub... myself. I normally like to listen to something Prior to buying it. I did get a chance to hear a Velodyne sub... don't remember wich one...but it was at Tweeter and it was like $2500. I'm assuming the setup was not right on it cause it did not impress me at all! I was quite dissapointed in it.

Unfortunately, just because a company is an Authorized Dealer, doesn't assure proper setup or knowledgable sales staff. For instance, a LOT of upscale stores still have their video displays setup with the "default" settings.

The nice thing about SVS is that you do get a money back guarantee if you don't like the product one you get it home, very few people actually do that though (cause their great subs). Most upscale B&M dealers also offer liberal exchange policies and/or loaner programs, as no matter how much money they spend on the demo room, it's still NOT your room. It really doesn't matter how it sounds anywhere, but in YOUR room. Another issue is that most people don't take the time to setup their new grear properly, even if they spend big $, the extra money for good cables or perhaps a professional installer seems unreasoable to most.

mrorem