New Polk Speaker design...

MxStYlEpOlKmAn · May 2002

I just read all about the arc, power port, antif difraction grill, and dynamic balance drivers...and all that stuff...now im wondering what all this stuff ACTUALLY does..

can someone just tell me what all this stuff does to the speaker and how it sounds?

RuSsMaN · May 2002

Reformulated poly-composite Dynamic Balance drivers with butyl rubber surrounds for durability and smooth wide range response.

Anti-diffraction grille and narrow baffle with raised driver bezel to minimize grille diffraction for spacious, 3-dimensional imaging.

Power Port bass venting for clean, low distortion bass you can really feel. Power Port vent doubles as a convenient, strong, built-in wall mounting bracket for easy, safe placement.

Acoustic Resonance Control (ARC Port) technology for more natural midrange reproduction.

-R

mantis · May 2002

Russman,
I think he was looking for a more basic english version of the technology that Polk has been using for years now.Can you try again?

RuSsMaN · May 2002

Dynamic balance drivers: Polks take on this, as I see it... The driver retains a more 'rigid' structure, in theory helping the sound waves to 'break up' less, especially in the critical mid-range area, the result should be clearer, more detailed sound.

Anti Diff Grill/Bezel: Once again, my take on it...Polk feels that by bringing the driver forward, off the 'box', and placing it closer to the grill, that this will reduce reflections off the cabinet. In my head, this should help with imaging, and present a more 'focused' or detailed sound stage.

Power Port: A lot of manufacturers claim port technology. The basic design is old, and referred to as a 'flared' or 'bell' (shaped) port. In theory, the air moving out of the cabinet is 'slowed' to a certain degree as the port gradually widens. This can prevent 'chuffing' and reduce port noise. I own a lot of B&W speakers, and they use a flared port also (without the internal structure Polk does), and refer to it as a 'Flow Port'

Acoustic Resonance Control: Simply put, a additional port, not tuned to the driver, but rather the cabinet, if that makes sense. Most wood cabs tend to resonante in the 400Hz range, and I'd be willing to bet that this port is tuned to a similar frequency, to help offset that resonantion. Result in sound should be less box, more driver.

I don't know if that was simpler or not, but it's my take on the situation....

Cheers,
Russ

mantis · May 2002

Not bad Russman but let me help you alittle further.
The Drivers are not raised up it's just the bezel, they flair it out so it cuts down on reflections,the driver stay attached to the cabnet.Polk used to use a Valvin grey material for sound absorbing to help this process out further.They stopped however not due to performance but to all the customer complaints about the wear and tear.(cat's, kids,Etc).
The flow port on the B&W speakers is very close to Polk's,I have felt at one time they ripped Polk off due to how close it is.But B&W has takin it in there own direction with the golf ball effect,If you own B&Ws you know what I'm talking about.They use it as much as Polk uses the Power port.
Not a bad post russman.

RuSsMaN · May 2002

Hey, I'll sleep MUCH better knowing I have your approval.....

Yes, the B&W's 'dimples' they use on their ports are designed to smooth the passage of air over the surface of said port flare, to reduce turbulance noise, resulting in lower distortion, and greater clarity, esp in the upper bass regions.... I really didn't see how it was relevant to go into so much detail, seeing as this post was about Polks 'Power Port'

And you might want to take another look at the speakers you actually own, the drivers dont appear flush to the cab, of course, in my VERY humble opinion..... If they were, would they not be ever-so-slighty horn loaded due to the bezel?

Cheers,
Russ

Oh, and BTW, I don't support THX......

scottvamp · May 2002

Ya!!!!! I got to make some popcorn for this match!!!!
LLLLEEEETTTT'SSSSSS GET REEEEADY TO RRRRRUMBLLLLEEEE!!!:eek:
Maybe one day my A/V equipment will be MANTIS Certified.:D

briancs · May 2002

that was funny scott:D :cool:
Guess what I'm drunk again:cool: :cool: :cool:
Disclaimer to Mantis: it is all in good fun
I WISH i have what you want

TroyD · May 2002

If the driver isn't raised up and sits on the same plane as the cabinet, wouldn't that exacerbate the diffraction problem?

BDT

hoosier21 · May 2002

Hey Troy no 4 syllable words in this forum, "exacerbate" what a show off:p

RuSsMaN · May 2002

-wheels are off-

TroyD · June 2002

Well???

Anyone?? Hello?

Mantis, what's the scoop here man? Don't leave us hanging now. What's your take?

BTW, we never did get your take on Ken's bi-wiring/bi-amping test.

C'mon now you can't just throw stuff out here and not support your claims

Troy

RuSsMaN · June 2002

Lets see, its been a busy week for foot-stuffing. (in no particular order)

First the whole rec as a pre issue.... Second, still doesn't get bi-wiring/amping (Ken's proposed test). Third, the driver mounting on the RT series. And now Fourth, the whole 'I spoke to a rep while I worked at Tweeter' schpiel, aka the ''Do you know why??I do" post. Have I forgotten anything?

You can't PAY for entertainment like this...

Cheers,
Laughin' till my sides hurt Russ

nascarmann · June 2002

C'mon now you can't just throw stuff out here and not support your claims

Even if it has been tested over and over?

KING WANNABE

rskarvan · June 2002

I'm a manufacturing engineer.
It seems to me the bezel is really just a sub-assembly
to reduce cost. The same speaker sub-assembly can be used in many, many applications (RT55i, RT800i, etc). Moving big speaker enclosures around the factory floor is inefficient. Whereas, some molded racks holding the completed bezel assembly that can be shipped to wherever for final assembly is a nice manufacturing technique. Thats my read on the situation. I don't think that plastic bezel makes a hoot of difference sound-wise. It may also be easier (productivity wise) to insert the drivers into the bezel automatically -vs- inserting drivers into big enclosures. I am certain that the less you move the final enclosure in the factory, the less scrap you will have regarding wood veneer damages, etc.

nascarmann · June 2002

Sounds right to me!

KING WANNABE of the wannabe people!

TroyD · June 2002

Hadn't though about it quite like that. That may be an advantage of the bezel but if it doesn't do anything, why raise it? Without having done a bunch of scientific testing, the theory behind the anti-diffraction bezel seems sound enough.

My question is though, if you accept the anti-diffraction thing, and the driver is still mounted on the same plane as the cabinet wouldn't the raised bezel make the soundwave diffraction issue worse (exacerbate) or as Russ pointed out give it a horn effect??

Troy

RuSsMaN · June 2002

-bump-

mantis · June 2002

Man,
you guys just love to pick on me.
Ok here it goes.
As posted above the driver"key word here" is mounted right on top of the front of the speaker cabnet.Take it apart and see for yourself.The allen key bolts hold the plastic bezel overtop of the DRIVER.The tweeter on the other hand is mounted right to the bezel,floating with it if you want.I didn't design it, I just took it apart when I installed my new tweeter's and crossovers and found the driver not connected to the bezel in any way,just underneath it, the tweeter was pressed fit into it as I had to remove it......now what do all you guys have to say about that??????????did you take apart your Polk's today??????:p
As far as all the other post you guys feel I didn't reply enough,I thought I was clear where I stood on the topic at hand.
The Yamaha post I don't care much about but I did at one time when I owned Yamaha.I talked to a Yamaha rep and thats what he told me.what else do you want.Buy the HTR if you think it's the same.Sears and Best Buy has them all day,even Tweeter has picked up 2 for cheap home theater in a box packages.
what else was there???The whole Ken Post, TroyD and I had a back to back posting on my take on the bi wire thing.Bi amping I never really got into in my posts,I feel this is a waste, there is so many great amps out there and polks don't need all this madness going on.I'm not into bi amping speakers.
You guys should know by now I don't talk from my butt hole, I speake in real world experience, not what I dig up on the net.
But you guys just love to pick on me don't you????:p

RuSsMaN · June 2002

The driver itself is not mounted flush with the cab. Do you KNOW???? Did you take your pills TODAY????

Cheers,
Laughing Russ

mantis · June 2002

take the bezel off man see for yourself!!

nascarmann · June 2002

Agree, take something apart and see if you still fill what you feel? I have looked at the PS and OPT's and most of the Cap's in the Yammie's and find only the best? Where is what you say is inferier(momma is not here to help me spell) product IDN? I say lets scope you receiver against mine with our wannabe amps? No ears, not an I say you say, lets put them on a scope? Try your 140 against a M-85?

THE KING of the wannabe people that so strive to be and are better that me!

mantis · June 2002

man you lost me,
I don't know what you said??

TroyD · June 2002

It's not that we love to pick on you but when your "facts" are refuted, you just seem to ignore it.

In the case of he bezel right from the polk website:

Polk's raised bezel lifts the drivers off the baffle

so either Polk is wrong or you are.

In the case of the receivers:
Cleary you are wrong and it wasn't a case of you presenting an opinion. You were pretty adamant about them not being the same. Nascarman was right and you were pretty rude to him "Do you know?? I do...."

In the case of Ken's test. You explained how you wired your speakers. In the past you made the comment that you could biwire but not biamp a powered tower. If Ken's test is valid then you are wrong again. Again, the point being, you didn't present your position as opinion but as fact. So if Ken's test is valid, your speakers are not truly biwired. You specifically asked for "hard data" it was provided.

The receiver thing, you were VERY harsh on those who use it as a pre, never mentioning that you do. As I said, if you had said that "I've tried it, it didn't work well, this is what I found..." I think folks wouldn't have said anything but you flat out insulted them.

Lastly, the wire thing, you said you had hard data and never saw fit to provide it. Plain and simple. I understand the testing thing but if you say something exists, show us.

Point is, you tend to insult people's intelligence when they don't agree with you and when you are not exactly right you just tend to ignore it. That's the reason for picking on you. It's your attitude, man. Like I said, folks like to be talked to, not spoken down to like we are idiots.

Troy

mantis · June 2002

Look dude,
If I sound like you say I do,I will have to apologize.I don't intend to talk down to anyone or offend anybody.
The thing about the driver and the bezel,as I posted I took the thing apart when I got my new crossovers and tweeters and found the driver directly against the front of the speaker.I'm not saying anyones wrong or right, just what I saw,the 6 1/2 drivers isn't raised up.
The case of Kens test,As I told you then ,this is what I did,take it for what it is.When you run 4 conductor wire to 4 binding post's,your using a bi wire configuration.I know why you think different,because there is a amp running the bass on the other side of the wire,this is now considered speaker level to the sub.I can live with that.I just delivered it in a premade bi wire cable.The only thing I ever wanted out of any of you is just go try for yourself and you can form your own opnion.Thats mostly how I learned everything I know before I became a Professional.Every manufactor of electronics seem to claim there stuff is the best,wire companies kill that.It can be extremly confusing on what to buy.I can also understand why people just would rather skip over that subject.Wire companies ask alot of money for there wires.Some I feel are way over priced.
And as far as the receiver thing,I was just stating what a Yamaha rep told me as I asked him about what I saw at Sears when they first got Yamaha in.And they had different model numbers then I was used to.I would still own a Yamaha receiver today if they mated better with my Polks.I felt it was just to bright for me,not to mention my room was very live and added to the brightness,I needed a warmer sounding receiver or a warmer sounding speaker package.
Look as far as you three(TroyD,Nasscarmann,and Russman)You guys all like to make smart **** comments,I know most of it is all in good fun,but it does piss people off.If you guys would post more about...this is what I found and this is what I did,I could respect all of your post's more as you ask of me.
I will read over my posts before I post them,I'm not posting here to pick on people.

TroyD · June 2002

I prove all my own statements with real world testing.Do you??

Tell you what, you go talk to a Yamaha rep as I did and find out for yourself. Answer me this, if it's the same exact receiver why do they have different model numbers??Do you know why??I do.

(this by Yammies website is proven to be a pantload)

To answer your question right , you can't bi amp the rt1000 series speaker.BUt YES YOU CAN BI WIRE THE RT1000 SPEAKERS.

(which you technically can't)

I don't take offence,you don't need to take advantage of what they have to offer.You guys are all to good for that

Dan, if you read these in context, you might see how and why people are rubbed the wrong way, especially since, well some of your statements are factually-challenged. Moreover, it seems that you aren't offering your views as opinion but as facts.

I'm just trying to point out that it's less what you say as much as how you say it.

Troy

nascarmann · June 2002

man you lost me,

I don't know what you said??

Well guess what? I was highly intoxicated last night and I don't know what I was trying to say?:D Any post made by me last night was not me, It was Mr Seagrams

Damn, did I tell mantis I would kiss him?

I have a huge hangover!

KING DRUNK

mantis · June 2002

TroyD,
why don't you read the intire posting of the quotes,you guys including yourself always reply with cocky remarks.I'm sure your just trying to be funny or whatever.
Thrust me when I post this.....I'm not the only one rubbing the wrong way.
If you want to resolve this and end this bickering,lets talk one on one...I emailed you you should have my screename,make a time and we can just have it out and finish this.
he said you said I said I took it this way your wrong thing needs to stop.

TroyD · June 2002

I am not having email.....

try: wdion@knology.net

Gee, Dan, I'm just trying to point out why you sometimes invite the reactions you get. Just a little constructive criticism is all. Other than that I really don't have any other issues to address.

Troy

mantis · June 2002

Check your mail,
you know TroyD, I can see why your pointing those out, but the rest of the post If you read it as I did, you can see why.Not justifing just tell the whole story,It bickers on both sides.Pointlessly sometime if not all the time.
Its really sad If you read the top post and then read all our post that follow, we get off the subject and just start fighting.The one who posted the question suffers the most while we rant and rave.

New Polk Speaker design...

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