Monitor 7 questions: should mid driver be mw6500 or mw6502?

Greetings all,
I just picked up a pair of Monitor 7's with Peerless tweeters. I should have noticed but did not, that one speaker has an mw6500 mid driver and the other has a mw6502 driver. I've read about the differences and wonder it anyone has/needs a swap of a 6502 for a 6500? I'm assuming these speakers should have mw6500 drivers?

I also was excited to hear the Peerless tweeters as they get so much love here. I am not hearing their excellence and wonder if it's the mismatched mids or if these old speakers need to be recapped to shine. Suggestions appreciated.

Comments

  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,746
    edited October 1
    Yeah you need both drivers to be MW6500. That MW6502 is for the 7C and Series II and is 4 ohm nominal impedance instead of 8 ohms. If some knucklehead did that who knows what else is wrong. Check for voice coil rub, cabinet sealing, proper phasing of drivers relative to each other; Black wire goes to red dot terminal and red binding post nut is the one on the left. Your Peerless are probably soldered but Make sure the black wire goes to the red dot terminal there as well.

    They definitely need to be recapped preferably with film types like Sonicap or Clarity Cap CSA and better quality resistors like Vishay/Mills. The electrolytics don't age well even though they were pretty high quality ones at the time. The ESR rises and the DF does too.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • bridawg
    bridawg Posts: 8
    Thanks for your input/response Gardenstater, I guess I'll try and be patient and shop around for a used mw6500. You are clearly more educated on the crossovers/recapping piece of these vintage speakers than I am. Is it correct to assume that the crossovers are designed for the same mid driver (6500) and it would make no sense to recap before I am able to find a 6500 to replace the 6502?
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,683
    Since you absolutely need to upgrade the caps and resistors you might as well do it now while hunting for the MW6500.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,683
    FYI, there's 3 of those drivers listed on eBay right now. You should buy one immediately as they don't come up often.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • bridawg
    bridawg Posts: 8
    Thanks for the heads up F1nut, I saw those on eBay but two look like a repeat ad of a seized speaker and the third looked a little iffy. I'll keep watching.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,746
    edited October 17
    There are three early ones from a 1978 10A part-out. These things must be getting scarcer because I see more and more of them claiming they work (wink wink) but they are still being sold as "for parts or not working". Pfft. https://www.ebay.com/itm/306553124627

    PS: It is still an unsolved mystery as far as how early you have to go to get ones with the "copper clad pole piece" that Polk touted in early brochures but removed from later brochures.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Merchjbt
    Merchjbt Posts: 3
    edited October 23
    Link removed by Admin
    Those 6500s are mine. They work. I am parting out my early 10A that I have with a seized 6500.

    Mod note: This is not the appropriate time to post links of items you are selling. Please review the rules on our forums. Rules here
    Post edited by Ryan_Soundunited on
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,683
    Merchjbt, you can't do that here.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Merchjbt
    Merchjbt Posts: 3
    F1nut, what did I do that was wrong? I didn't post the link to begin with. I was just commenting that these were my woofers because someone implied that the woofers don't work (wink wink).
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,683
    Go away
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,070
    Tip: You'd be better off not attempting to glue the magnets, than scaring off potential buyers.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • Merchjbt
    Merchjbt Posts: 3
    The hot glue comes off with little effort, so it's not permanent at all. Much better than the magnets shifting during shipping. From my experience, most buyers looking to purchase these woofers likely have seized woofers they are replacing.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,746
    edited October 22
    If you don't pack them with lots of cushioning that hot melt won't prevent shifting on a solid impact. Doesn't bond well to non porous surfaces like metal and ferrite. Also I personally wouldn't take a chance on ones being sold as "for parts or not working" but that's just me.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,746
    edited October 24
    Here ya go. Just make sure seller says no voice coil rubbing and get them to pack with lots of bubble wrap and peanuts.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/197797207356
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • bridawg
    bridawg Posts: 8
    Thanks for sharing the link!
  • bridawg
    bridawg Posts: 8
    Recap update with new questions (just what you've been waiting for)! I was able to track down an MW6500 driver, and I was pleased that I was able to successfully recap the 7's as I had not done that before. I decided to go more of a budget route with caps as I saw numerous posts of others who had done that and were satisfied. I used a Jantzen Cross Cap for the 12uF and Standard Z-Cap for the 33uF cap. I also used one Jantzen resistor and one Mills resistor. Unfortunately, the speakers for the most part sound the same. Dull highs even with the Peerless tweeters and bass that should be tighter. When I compare the recapped 7's with my original 5's the 5's have crisper highs and tighter bass, even with the flawed sl2000 tweeter. Doing the recap I did notice something that raised a red flag. The caps for the high frequency looked original but did not appear to be the same uF. I'll attach a picture to show. So have I stumbled across some 7's that had some work done already, and is there something else to consider to get them to sound up to their potential? Or was using Jantzen caps a big mistake? Any input is appreciated.


    99i3znuyqjga.jpg
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 26,939
    With the +/- 10% or so both of those caps could theoretically be very close to the same value.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,683
    The Cross Cap was not a good choice.
    Sound: Like many basic quality MKP's they lack sophistication but their overall tonal balance is quite neutral. Due to their very low cost they are ideal for parallel capacitors in the low-pass of a woofer for example where in low budget systems electrolytics are often found. Also fine in basic quailty parallel correction networks. They are also quite compact in size, so they can turn out handy when space is critical.

    The Superior Z is MUCH better.

    The 14.6uF was wrong, the 12uF was correct.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,746
    edited December 5
    Weird. Never saw a 14.6 ever in a M7. Do both crossovers have the same dates, which were usually scribbled on them with a grease pencil back then?

    PS: Sonicaps / Vishay Mills / Cardas 15.5 awg Litz tweeter wire / Neotech UPOCC solid 12 awg MW wire / Cardas BP / 11.5 awg Cardas Litz binding post and fuseblock wiring sounded absolutely fantastic for me.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • bridawg
    bridawg Posts: 8
    pitdogg2 you're probably right but it was still a surprise to see the different caps that appeared to be original in the two crossovers. The speakers do have a store sticker on the back of them so maybe they had been reconditioned with available mix and match parts at one time.

    F1nut you're also probably right about the cap choice. I'll give these time to break in and if I'm still unsatisfied maybe I'll replace the high frequency caps with the sonicaps that you and others suggested. There were a number of satisfied recappers though who had used budget options like Dayton and Jantzen who shared their stories here and on other forums which is why I decided to give that option a try.

    Gardenstater I should have looked for those dates on the crossovers but did not. When I take them apart again I'll check. The stickers on the back of the speakers are from "Sound Company", a no longer in business audio shop in San Diego. I suppose it's possible they got a hold of these years ago and used whatever parts they had on hand to replace non working components in order to sell them. Although it did not look like the board had been desoldered/resoldered.

    Thanks again for your input all, it's much appreciated.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,683
    Go with the Superior Z.

    What are you driving them with?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • bridawg
    bridawg Posts: 8
    I test the speakers in a spare room where I have an older 100 wpc Yamaha receiver. I have a pair of Monitor 5's and 10's and compared both of those to the recapped 7's. The 10's and 5's sounded great so I think the receiver is sufficient.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,746
    Are your 10's the ones with MW6500 and Peerless? If so, try swapping drivers. Also, make darn sure all the drivers are connected in proper phase. Red dot terminals are positive on both the tweeter and midwoofer. Couldn't hurt to verify they are properly marked with a 9V battery briefly held across the terminals on the MW and a AA or AAA battery briefly alligator clipped to the tweeters.

    How's your hearing? The SL2000 always produced around a 5dB hump around 13kHz in Stereo Review testing of Polk speakers that used them. Maybe you like that.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • bridawg
    bridawg Posts: 8
    Gardenstater it's the 7's that have the Peerless tweeters and had the wrong driver until I replaced it, so it's pretty clear they've been worked on before. I will go through them again to see if they are wired properly. I didn't really need another pair of vintage Polks but the Peerless tweeters are what drew me in. I have upgraded the sl2000 tweeters in two sets of speakers but still find the old sl2000 acceptable for a couple reasons. I don't really crank the volume very often, and as my audiologist friend tells me, at my age of 68 I probably can't hear frequencies above 10k anyway!
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,746
    Gotcha. I knew that. I meant are your 10s the early ones also, which "also" have the MW6500 and Peerless. Answer is no. There is most definitely a possibility of having a sub par not up to specs midwoofer, especially with those MW6500 which had minimal voice coil clearance and soft suspensions that can wear out. Do this measurement if you can. You should have about 0.735 in. from the mounting surface plane of the basket flange to the portion of the cone where the dust cap meets the cone. Also look at the spiders and see if they are in the same plane or convex or concave looking.

    With the crossover frequency of 3K, all the fundamentals are being produced by the midwoofer and some of the harmonics as well. Polk said they deliberately put the crossover frequency up high like that, to avoid the critical midrange area.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,683
    If you really want to know how your drivers are performing you need to test them with a Kipple Near Field Scanner.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk