Snub Way road test

treitz3 · April 3

This can be explored....I just considered it as a, "system" performance enhancing device. Not sure how one would split it up between the two....unless there was a seperate circuit for each one.

What would be the limitation? (genuinely interested)

Tom

jdjohn · April 3

I know this is not new information for you, but some preamps have a headphone output option, which allows for 'near-field' and/or headphone listening. These 'close-quarter' listening experiences can often expose nuances that are not obvious with loudspeakers.

treitz3 · April 3

Well, I cannot comment on headphone performance with this. I am a full range 2.2 channel guy only. You will have to take the lead on what this does to a headphone(s).

Tom

jdjohn · April 3

I am certainly not an expert on headphone performance, but it seems to me that the SnubWay should have a positive impact on both pre-amp, and power-amp performance.

I honestly don't know what their claims entail about pre- versus power- amp improvements.

treitz3 · April 4

They don't have any, AFAIK. My observations were only on the entire system performance parameters, and what it did to my system as a whole.

It just gets rid of the noise riding the A/C signal (targeted). Not sure why it would make any difference between the two, unless it exposes what one currently has available currently.

I would only imagine that (and in no way am I being degrading here) it exposes what one's current gear actually sounds like. This is only conjecture, as I do not hear what it is you do (or seem to allude too).

More information would be welcome.

Tom

jdjohn · April 10

Although I do have some initial thoughts to convey about the SnubWay, I'd like to respectfully ask for another day or two with the demo unit, since we've had some severe weather here during the last week

Basically, I've had to unplug everything in my main rig for extended periods of time, due to lightning and high winds, so evaluating the SnubWay has been difficult.

muncybob · April 10

Sure, I had on my "timeline" that you would have it through through upcoming weekend anyways. Looking forward to your comments, I'm still playing with mine too. Stay safe!

muncybob · April 13

So, while I've had the SW for almost 2 weeks, I did not have a lot of time to spend with it until the last few days. As previously stated, I was not expecting much from my modest rig and esp from my ears.

I was pleasantly surprised though. Initially I would be listening carefully for "differences", maybe too carefully. Then just a few nights ago I settled in to some very familiar tunes and took off my critical hat and just enjoyed the music. After a bit I noticed that my feet were tapping and head somewhat bobbing more than usual, then it occurred to me I was actually enjoying the tunes more than usual. This revelation brought a smile to my face and then the critical listening hat was put back on, why the change?

I must say I wasn't hearing much of anything I had not heard before, but what I was hearing was clearer. When centered on good recordings, vocals sound like the artist was right in front of me. Same also with keyboards. After realizing this I actually got a bit excited which lead me to listen to more music than usual.

By this time the Mrs was off to bed and the system had to be turned down a bit to avoid nasty comments from upstairs. The L600s along with the sub really shine in the bass department, esp with a bit of volume. Previously I would miss the bass a bit at the reduced volume, but not this time.

I can't say that the SW can improve a poor recording though, actually just the opposite. But to my ears, a well recorded album sounds really good. I wish I had a more revealing system because I still have that "can it get better" itch

So, while I did not have a "bowl me over"moment, I am enjoying the music more and in the long run that's what it's all about.

treitz3 · April 13

The good thing is this. Any improvement you make from here on? You will definitely hear the difference much more that you would have before.

The beauty of it is, all you have to do is unplug it to find out. This is the "noise" I was referring too. You don't know you have it until it's gone.

Tom

muncybob · May 8

Just a quick update. Another "review" should be posted soon. The SW will be in transit shortly to Rick.

daddyjt · May 9

I've just wrapped up a week with this unit and will be sending it off to the next recipient shortly. I would like to extend a sincere THANK YOU to @muncybob for both organizing this road show, and for allowing me to be included.

I will start by saying that I typically do not subscribe to items such as the Snubway. I do not crusade against them, for if it enhances your musical experience, more power to you. That said, if this hobby has taught me anything, it's that I need to keep an open mind.

My system consists of an Oppo 105D playing mostly SACD/DVDA/FLAC to a fully refreshed and modified Carver C-1 pre, to a pair of fully refreshed and modified pair of Carver Silver 9t amplifiers, to a pair of NHT 3.3 speakers. Cables are MIT.

Media for the evaluation was Donald Fagen’s Nightfly on DVDA, Fleetwood Mac Rumors on DVDA, Blood Sweat & Tears (self-titled) on SACD, America (self-titled) on SACD, and Steely Dan's Everything Must Go on DVDA.

I have a 2-gang box on a dedicated 20-amp circuit wired with 10-2 wire for my amplifiers and a separate 20-amp circuit (12-2 wire) for my preamp and Oppo. In speaking with Tom prior to the unit's arrival, it was decided to move the pre and Oppo to a surge strip in one of the 4 outlets on the amp circuit, leaving the 4th (after the two amplifiers) for the Snubway.

The first disc up was my go-to reference for width of soundstage - Sandman by America, off their debut album on SACD. This track starts with a simple strumming guitar and one vocalist. At the :23 second mark, the rest of the guitars come in and the sound stage really pushes out both left and right. At the :38 second mark the other 2 singers come in, and the sound stage just explodes into the room. When the bass hits it's first really deep note at 1:05, it's incredibly deep and clean. The Snubway had a noticeable effect on the width of the sound stage - specifically, it pushed out to the left only about 1-2 feet further than without it. At this point I was not overly impressed, but curious...

Next up was Blood Sweat & Tears SACD. This is where I really started to think there might be something to the Snubway. On the track Spinning Wheel, the opening cowbell was pushed WAY left - practically in the next room. At the :30 second mark, there's a repeating trumpet swell accompanied by a crash cymbal. I'll admit to never noticing the cymbal behind the trumpet (and I do hear it now, even with the Snubway removed from the system), but the Snubway brought it out to a MUCH greater degree. At :48, the bass definition was to die for (More on this in the synopsis). At 1:05 the separation between the cymbals and tambourine was spectacular - much more than without the Snubway.

Next was The Nightfly by Donald Fagen on DVDA. On the New Frontier track, there’s a harmonica teasing around in the background that is MUCH more prevalent with the Snubway. Also, the cowbell/cymbal combination is resolved much better with the Snubway – two very distinct sounds, whereas they tend to flow together w/o the Snubway. This track also benefited from the enhanced bass definition that I’ll cover in the summation.

By this point, I was really digging the Snubway, so I pulled out Rumors on DVDA. This used to be my go-to reference disc, but lost its spot in the “reference rotation” years ago to different material. Well…. I was instantly reminded why I loved this disc so. On The Chain, there’s a bass “walk-down” at 1:15 in the chorus (and a couple more times) that was simply stunning in it’s definition (More on this bass phenomenon in the summary). At 2:08 theres a tambourine “flurry” leading into the chorus that I never really noticed before. I verified it is there and audible w/o the Snubway, but again, the Snubway drew my attention to it. I have always liked the hi hat/cowbell combo in the intro to Gold Dust Woman – it’s a watershed track for system quality in my humble opinion. The Snubway worked literal magic with this difficult rendering test. Don’t get me wrong, my system handles this very well – so well in fact, that I did not think there was room for improvement. I was wrong.

By now, I was just having fun, so I pulled out The Other Side by Godsmack on SACD. To be clear, this is a semi-acoustic disc, and the ONLY Godsmack that I enjoy listening to. On Running Blind, the opening features impeccable drums, bongos, tambourines and cymbals – there is a lot to resolve, and the Snubway again proved it’s worth. The opening vocals are just one guy, and at the :48 mark, the rest of the band joins in. The Snubway made a HUGE difference here – separating the individual singers, yet reinforcing their harmonies.

Last but certainly not least, Steely Dan’s Everything Must Go on DVDA. The last (and title) track, Everything Must Go, starts with a chaotic, cacophonous mix of drums, guitars, sax and keyboards. The magic starts at the :50 mark – A crystal clear sax with the most solid kick drum I think I’ve ever heard on a recording. The guitar teases and pokes in the left center of the soundstage throughout, but at 2:51, there is a completely different guitar sound in the center-right. It happens a few more times, and this is another one I never noticed without the Snubway.

If you’ve read through my drivel this far, I’m sure you’ve figured out that I give the Snubway a huge thumbs up. A note on the bass phenomenon I eluded to several times: This is incredibly hard to put into words, but the feeling I kept getting was that the Snubway was removing “something” from in between the individual bass notes. Whatever this is, it is not noticeable until it is gone. It leaves each bass note more isolated, and I heard more of the beginning and end of each note, lending to an overall greater (much greater in fact) ability to hear and identify elements within the bass lines. It’s kind of like going to the dentist – you brush every day, and your teeth are clean. But when the dentist scrapes away those little tarter deposits and polishes your teeth, it’s a whole new level – every tooth feels more distinct and detailed. What’s truly impressive about this effect the Snubway had on bass rendition, was the fact that it was virtually UNIVERSAL across ALL of my reference material…

I would have loved to keep this for another week, but I’m back on the road for work Sunday, so might as well send it off now. Do I want one? Absolutely. However, with everything going on with my daughter and her graduations, $500 just isn’t in the cards right now. But someday….:-)

bcwsrt · May 9

Fun read and excellent review!

PSOVLSK · May 9

bcwsrt wrote: »

Fun read and excellent review!

I’ll say. Pointing out specifics in various songs is awesome and doesn’t leave the reader wondering, guessing, or assuming. Excellent review!!

muncybob · May 10

"separating the individual singers, yet reinforcing their harmonies" This and your bass comments were what I heard too.

Thanks for the review!!

mls · May 10

Wonderful and Entertaining thread - really good read.

We are very proud of both SnubWay and Mainstream.

Thanks to all for Road Testing (love that)

Best wishes

Mark

treitz3 · May 10

Hello and please allow me to offer you a warm welcome to Club Polk, Mark.

More later on the Mainstream (for those who my be interested).

Tom

mls · May 10

Thanks very much Tom

Best to all

jdjohn · May 10

mls wrote: »

Wonderful and Entertaining thread - really good read.

We are very proud of both SnubWay and Mainstream.

Thanks to all for Road Testing (love that)

Best wishes

Mark

Hi Mark, and let me echo Tom's sentiments about welcoming you to Club Polk.

Could you offer some 'official' recommendations about placement of both the SnubWay and Main Stream devices within a circuit?

Also, I see that the SnubWay/Main Stream duo deal for US 3-prong is currently sold out on the Vera-Fi website. Do you anticipate that duo deal coming back at some point?

Thanks very much for any insights, and congratulations on your successful products!

Jetmaker737 · May 14

I will post my review in a day or two but suffice to say that after only two nights of listening I ordered myself a Snubway. Bummer that the Snubway+Main Stream "Dynamic Duo" 10% discounts were sold out or I'd have gotten both.

Jetmaker737 · May 15

Review:

TL;DR - It works.

My system gets power from a "semi-dedicated" line. It is 15 amp and feeds only two outlets. One outlet feeds my system. The other outlet is on the opposite side of the wall and feeds all my computer gear (yeah, I know...). I have a Shunyata Venom HC power cord from the wall into an AQ Niagara 1200 power conditioner with Shunyata Venom PC's to all components (except the sub which uses its stock PC).
I did my listening via Roon and Qobuz using the PS Audio Directstream Jr streamer/DAC, through AQ Red River XLR's into my Luxman L-590AXII integrated and then through Acoustic Zen Absolute cables into KEF Reference 1 speakers.
I spent two evenings listening, one album each evening. I only listened with the Snubway (SW) in one location: the free receptacle at the wall outlet that feeds my system. The wall outlet is easily accessible so I did a lot of A-B testing by installing-removing-replacing the SW device during the course of the various tunes.

Evening 1
Album: DJ Koze, Music can hear us. 44.1k, 24 bits. 15 tracks. This is an eclectic mix of vocal and electronic music. On this first evening I noticed a difference in most but not all cases of A-B'ing... richer textures, sharper attack, extended decay with images more forward and more sharply defined with the SW. The most noticeable effects were with percussion and acoustic guitar and some of the vocals. I was not blown away, but the effects were noticeable. However, not enough to completely rule out confirmation bias. I wasn't totally convinced.

Evening 2
Album: Nils Frahm, Tripping with Nils Frahm. 96k 24 bits. 8 tracks. This is Avant Garde Electronic music and it is a live recording. It's a very good album and I highly recommend you give it a listen. The tracks on this are very long and have repetitive rhythms/instrumentation that's conducive to doing proper A-B'ing where you can switch configuration and have a couple of minutes to get back to your seat and settle back into and absorb the music.
I thought at the start of this session that I wouldn't do any rapid A-B testing, that I'd listen through the full album with the SW then again without. The first three tracks went by with the SW installed. I noted a spacious sense of the concert venue. Tight images. Rich bass. Nice fwd-aft separation. Good detail to subtle notes. Rich timbre. Piano on one piece precisely located, visually "there".
But then I couldn't help myself so during track #4 I pulled the SW and sat back down. Whoa!... it was immediately a flatter soundstage, the tonal quality was attenuated, not as engaging. I'm thinking, "did that really just happen"? I stuck the SW back in and it all popped back out into a more 3D focus. There was definitely added palpability and dimension, especially to the piano. I played tracks 5, 6 and 7. Pulling and replacing the SW occasionally. I would leave it in for a while thinking "OK, this sounds good. I'm convinced" but then, "Is it really working? Maybe it's in my head". So I'd pull the SW again and, whump!... it flattened out again, veiled again. I plugged it back in.
I repeated this many times. My actual notes at the end: "Sharper attack, fuller timbre with SW. Palpability, dimensionality. Depth substantially increased. Greater fwd-aft separation. Attack and decay enhanced. Not subtle. Flat, veiled without SW. R&Rd many many times. Always immediately noticeable on this record." So while the final track #8 played I went to the website and placed my order. Note: I was completely sober.

Now... I think you've probably guessed a major factor here, that being that I have my computer gear all feeding off the same line as my system. I don't doubt it. The SW is warding off all the evil coming from there. I was very skeptical of this thing when I signed up. I told Bob, "...(I'm) skeptical here, but how can you pass up trying it after the way Tom talked it up? I suspect however, that Tom has perceptive abilities that I lack. We will see." I may not have Tom's bionic ears but even these old things were able to get benefit from the Snubway.

daddyjt · May 15

muncybob wrote: »

Just a side note here, Mark has offered the unit he is sending at a price of $185 to one of us that auditions his product. If enough people show interest in this I guess it will go to a person via random number pick similar to karmas here. Also, I have absolutely no affiliation with Mark or his company, just a curiosity about this product.

I somehow missed this part of the roadshow. I would very much like to be considered for the opportunity to purchase this at the end of the rotation…

muncybob · May 16

Curious to know if you have ever listened to your rig w/o the computer gear active on the same circuit? Just wondering if the Snub Way has limitations on the noise harvesting and if there were less noise, would the end result be improved?

As you know, I too was skeptical (for a number of reasons) before receiving the SW.Thanks for the review!

Jetmaker737 · May 16

Hey Bob. No I haven't but would be interesting to test it. It would require shutting down my computer, modem and router then firing them all back up after the test. Maybe when I'm good and caffeinated one day I'll give it a shot.

treitz3 · May 16

I would advise unplugging them for a proper test. The SMPS, in the screen and other items may still be active, leaking noise back into the circuit, even though the unit(s) themself are powered off. Reason I say this is the power stops at the power button. That's the open in the circuit. Everything else is still live, upstream from that. FWIW.

Tom

Milito · May 17

Quick question. When I turn on my ceiling fan I'm getting a slight pop thru my speakers. I replaced the wall switch which made it a little better. Would this help or not beside helping getting rid of other noise in my wiring?

PSOVLSK · May 17

treitz3 wrote: »

I would advise unplugging them for a proper test. The SMPS, in the screen and other items may still be active, leaking noise back into the circuit, even though the unit(s) themself are powered off. Reason I say this is the power stops at the power button. That's the open in the circuit. Everything else is still live, upstream from that. FWIW.

Tom

Wouldn’t it make more sense for him to test it with his computer hooked up since that’s his normal listening environment. Or are you saying unplug everything to be able to determine the true benefit of the Snubway?

treitz3 · May 17

Milito wrote: »

Quick question. When I turn on my ceiling fan I'm getting a slight pop thru my speakers. I replaced the wall switch which made it a little better. Would this help or not beside helping getting rid of other noise in my wiring?

A sudden drop in voltage will cause electrical interference, which can be audible over the speakers. I would advise muting the system when you turn on the fan, putting the fan/light switch on another circuit, or getting a dedicated line to the stereo (or fan) to completely eliminate this issue. Dimmers will sometimes make this worse, and they will also add additional noise into said circuit.

@PSOVLSK - It was my understanding that he did test everything with the computer still plugged in and powered on. It was my recommendation to unplug everything concerning the computer, after @muncybob inquired if @Jetmaker737 had tried the SW without the computer powered on.

I am not sure what noise frequencies a computer, screen, SMPS' and other associated gear his computer makes, but computers are known to be very noisy. If he tested the SW with the computer powered up and still heard the differences he heard, the benefits should increase when all of the computer system is unplugged. Even LED bulbs that reside on the circuit have SMPS' in them. They will also leak noise back into the circuit. The effectiveness of the SW depends on how much noise is on the circuit.

Tom

Jetmaker737 · May 17

treitz3 wrote: »

It was my understanding that he did test everything with the computer still plugged in and powered on. It was my recommendation to unplug everything concerning the computer, after @muncybob inquired if @Jetmaker737 had tried the SW without the computer powered on.

Yes, that is the case. One complicating factor for testing with the computer gear powered off is that the computer serves as my Roon core and feeds my streamer via coax from the router. Of course I could test using FM radio or RtR. But any such testing would be just for giggles as I don't have another outlet that I can use for the computing gear.

I'm not an electrical engineer, and perhaps @SeleniumFalcon or another EE guru could comment, but from my understanding an electrical circuit filter will filter all of the frequencies to which it is tuned. So that the existence of multliple sources of said frequencies should not materially affect the efficacy of the filter in eliminating all of them (up to some power limit perhaps?). However, there is the case where frequency ranges beyond the filter's design will of course get through. Which is a possible argument for me to also try the "Main Stream" unit. I could install that one into the free receptacle in the outlet that feeds the computer equipment (or into the plug strip).

treitz3 · May 17

As you may know, I have a plethora of noise reducing kit in my rig. Both before the rig, and in the rig itself. Even 100 feet away, where the modem and router are located. From galvanic isolation to LPS's to E cables that have C-core filters to various line conditioners. Then there are the other noise blocking devices and Puron's (multiple), SW and MC A/C line conditioner. Even had a single channel isolation device at one point (since removed) in between my noisiest source at the time (the streamer) and my pre-amplifier.

They all do something, but not one of them did everything. Of all of these devices, the Snubway and the Master Class A/C line conditioner made the most impact.....and the changes were not subtle, as was the case with most of the other items I am currently utilizing. Granted, those were the last items added and admittedly, these devices are cumulative but - they were definitely the most game changing out of them all....and by a far margin.

Many manufactures seem to "claim" that all noise is blocked/thwarted. I laugh at statements like these when reading an advertisement from a manufacturer, because I know for a fact that it's pure, unadulterated horse hockey. I am not Kenneth, so I cannot explain to you as to why these things do not block all noise, I can only report what I hear (and don't hear). Or at the very least, what works wonders in my rig to thwarting the noise form ever being amplified in the first place. The targeted noise that both the SW and MC attack is definitely targeting the most amount of noise that rides the A/C circuit in my system, and others, and this is evidenced by the reviews of just the SW on this thread along with my own observations.

Tom

Milito · May 17

treitz3 wrote: »

Milito wrote: »

Quick question. When I turn on my ceiling fan I'm getting a slight pop thru my speakers. I replaced the wall switch which made it a little better. Would this help or not beside helping getting rid of other noise in my wiring?

A sudden drop in voltage will cause electrical interference, which can be audible over the speakers. I would advise muting the system when you turn on the fan, putting the fan/light switch on another circuit, or getting a dedicated line to the stereo (or fan) to completely eliminate this issue. Dimmers will sometimes make this worse, and they will also add additional noise into said circuit.

@PSOVLSK - It was my understanding that he did test everything with the computer still plugged in and powered on. It was my recommendation to unplug everything concerning the computer, after @muncybob inquired if @Jetmaker737 had tried the SW without the computer powered on.

I am not sure what noise frequencies a computer, screen, SMPS' and other associated gear his computer makes, but computers are known to be very noisy. If he tested the SW with the computer powered up and still heard the differences he heard, the benefits should increase when all of the computer system is unplugged. Even LED bulbs that reside on the circuit have SMPS' in them. They will also leak noise back into the circuit. The effectiveness of the SW depends on how much noise is on the circuit.

Tom

Thanks for the answer. So you're saying the snub way wouldn't help. I just have a switch on my fan, no dimmer.

I guess I need to replace the fan as this is a recent issue with it. It's a builder grade fan which came with our new house. Get one with a remote, no switch.

Snub Way road test

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