Let's talk DAC's

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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
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    Late to the party. I had Rich's Gustard X26 and for the $, I thought it was very good.

    For myself, I prefer the warmer sound so, I have stuck with the Boarder Patrol se-i I got from @Clipdat. It only can go to 96k but, I really like the way it sounds.
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • rainbow1919
    rainbow1919 Posts: 12
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    IMO, Yamaha S801 should do really nice with the Polks and looks to have all the features you need.
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  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,116
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    rainbow1919 wrote: »
    IMO, Yamaha S801 should do really nice with the Polks and looks to have all the features you need.

    7rhoy37l5a5d.gif

    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,176
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    Only 90 more posts to know what that was about!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,486
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    My guess is he was referring to the USB DAC within the unit.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,295
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    I have a DAC in my phone
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,370
    edited May 6
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    erniejade wrote: »
    Late to the party. I had Rich's Gustard X26 and for the $, I thought it was very good.

    Close, but X didn't mark the spot. :) It is an R26 fed via I2S from a Singxer SU-6 DDC.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,667
    edited May 7
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    I recently read a review of this R2R DAC in The Absolute Sound and it made me want to try it: https://www.aquahifi.com/formula.html
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  • Dr_Wu
    Dr_Wu Posts: 319
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    Used unit available at audiogon for about half off: only $9000+ :o
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  • bcwsrt
    bcwsrt Posts: 1,657
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    A phase switch … on a DAC?

    Brian

    One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,257
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    Clipdat wrote: »
    I recently read a review of this R2R DAC in The Absolute Sound and it made me want to try it: https://www.aquahifi.com/formula.html

    That seems to be another rare R2R DAC that can also deal with DSD. Quite a bit pricier than anything from Denafrips though...
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,176
    edited May 7
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    If you research these R2r dacs that say they do dsd, it's always the same thing. There is a chip set of some kind involved.

    There is no such thing as a native R2r dac that can do dsd.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,370
    edited May 7
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    Mine has a Direct DSD option which uses a 1-bit DAC for native DSD. I also have the option, like how most DAC's do it, which is convert DSD to PCM for the R2R. If you are feeding your DAC native DSD and it converts to PCM, I suggest trying it both ways. Feed it the equivalent PCM rate, no conversion, to see which sounds best.

    DSD64/128/256/512 PCM equivalents are 88.2/176.4/352.8/768kHz.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,370
    edited May 7
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    bcwsrt wrote: »
    A phase switch … on a DAC?

    It's a great option that will allow you to compensate for a recording where absolute phase wasn't preserved or if something in your system is inverting phase. Steve Hoffman had some discussions about absolute phase in recordings at his forum. IIRC he mentioned some tracks in an album can be out of phase.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,295
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    SCompRacer wrote: »
    bcwsrt wrote: »
    A phase switch … on a DAC?

    A phase switch will allow you to compensate for a recording where absolute phase wasn't preserved or if something in your system is inverting phase. Steve Hoffman had some discussions about phase in recordings.

    Is the switch actually inverting phase or polarity?
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,370
    edited May 7
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    invalid wrote: »

    Is the switch actually inverting phase or polarity?

    That's a good question. From the web...

    "The terms “phase” and “polarity” refer to two different things and cannot be used interchangeably. “Phase” implies a shift in time relative to some reference, while “polarity” is simply a reversal of the positive and negative terminals of an audio connection."

    I've always thought of phase as reversing the polarity of speaker terminals. The audio test CD I have has a test that refers to speakers being in or out of phase. The manual should explain what the phase switch does.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,548
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    Ok, I can’t hold my Salt-N-Pepa dad joke in anymore…. It’s been a week….

    “Let’s talk about DACs, baby…..

    Let’s talk about U… S…. B…..

    Let’s talk about all the good chips….

    And the bad chips that may be…..

    Let’s talk about DACs…..”

    Now I feel better.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,667
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    Clipdat wrote: »
    Re: Streamer/DAC, reading the review of this right now in Stereophile, they seem to like it: https://www.audioadvisor.com/camxn10?sku=NEW-CAMXN10

    I ordered one of these and I'm really impressed with it so far. I'm using the analog output and the built-in DAC is sounding good to my ears. Price to performance ratio is exceptional.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,196
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    bcwsrt wrote: »
    A phase switch … on a DAC?

    That's for when the datastream consists of zeros and negative ones.
    B)
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,196
    edited May 13
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    Yup, the ol' phase/polarity imbroglio.

    Reversed polarity and 180 degree phase shift are, in the steady state, essentially the same thing -- in the sense that, on an oscilloscope, the nature of the difference in the two waveforms would be indistinguishable in either case. That would only be true in the steady state (i.e., two continuous since waves, either 180 degrees out of phase or with polarity of one inverted relative to the other).
    In a dynamic sense, though, the two cases are not the same.
    rwj4x5kgnfkh.png
    j88uqvz9b0ar.png
    The source of these two images is currently down, but the URL from whence they hail is:
    http://www.davidbridgen.com/pol.htm
    Since music ain't (usually) pure (i.e., single frequency) sine waves -- the difference's not (quite) just a matter of pedantry.
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  • displayname
    displayname Posts: 1,140
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    displayname wrote: »
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    So @displayname has “term limits” on his DACs lol…..

    Other way around. A stand alone DAC can hang around forever. But I fear the streamers might have a term limit if the apps stop getting software updates.

    To elaborate, I remember growing up a lot of people’s dads and grandpa’s could have vintage system that didn’t change for decades, driven by vinyl and CD players.
    But I’d imagine a steamer gets fully bricked in that situation. Maybe not, but I just don’t know that those pieces will have 20 year lifespans purely due to software no longer being supported. Just like cellphones.

    I need to walk back my statement. While in principle I support what I said, the simplicity of a streaming dac is nice, normally more cost effective, and higher quality options are coming out all the time.

    The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of eliminating a power plug and a USB/digital cable.

    A streaming dac might end up bricked, but in the mean time I can still cover a lot of ground excellently for a very manageable price point.

    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
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