Let's talk DAC's

pearsall001 · April 22

First off I am very pleased with the LKS DA004 DAC. A stellar performer that definitely lives up to it's reputation.
Simply just kicking some tires here, but I have been looking at DAC's in general just to see what else is out there. What are you guys using & comments on it's performance.

marvda1 · April 22

when I was ready to move on from my LKS da004 dac, I naturally started to look at the da005, but I was curious about r2r dacs. Audio Art cables was selling his personal Sonnet Morpheus dac, and since I had written a couple of reviews in the past for them, I gave him a call and started asking questions, of course this led to me purchasing the dac.
It has a wide/deep soundstage, very natural sounding, and good detail, sweet sounding.
https://audioartcable.com/products/sonnet-morpheus?variant=32590407434286

treitz3 · April 22

My preference is R2R DAC's but they are limited and will not play SACD's and other high-rez formats. Currently running two different ANK DAC's. The performance from them makes me not miss the high-rez stuff. At all.

Much better than a Sabre or any of rhe other ones I have tried, IMO. Two completely different worlds.

Trey and Rick have fallen in love with Abbass DAC's. I'll let Trey speak for his selection, as he is more intimately familiar with them.

Tom

VR3 · April 22

So far Abbas 2.4se, 3k new is my personal favorite.

I am going on a year and I'm still running the junk tubes he sent me, his words! They sound excellent.

Delta sigma/DSD is for the birds

heiney9 · April 22

I have a heavily modded Eastern Electric Mini Max DAC Supreme. I previously was using an EE Mini Max DAC Plus which was a big improvement over the much lauded Original Mini Max Dac.

Both have discrete op-amps installed the new one has 2 pairs of Mundorf Caps in the signal paths as well. Both are tube and solid state. The tube doesn't add much, but if one had no tubes in their rig it's noticeable.

The Supreme uses the tried and true Sabre ESS 9018 chipsets in parallel as well as 2 transformers, 1 for the analog 1 for the digital. Does Hi-Rez as well as DSD.

To me the EE's give the correct balance of analog with transparent and natural sparkling highs as well as exceptional sound staging and organic bass. Everything sounds "right". No etched highs, very smooth and articulate, zero fatigue.

billbillw · April 23

treitz3 wrote: »

My preference is R2R DAC's but they are limited and will not play SACD's and other high-rez formats. Currently running two different ANK DAC's. The performance from them makes me not miss the high-rez stuff. At all.

Tom

That's not entirely true. Your R2R DAC cannot do DSD (SACD), but there are other brands that do. Pretty much all the Denafrips line can playback DSD512 or higher, and high rez up to 24/192. I'm sure there are other brands that also do it.
Most of the newer DACs that are using a programmable logic chip have the potential to decode the DSD input and output through the R2R signal path. Its up to the designers to implement it.
In reality, for most of us, DSD is a novelty. I have less than 30 SACDs and haven't bought any new ones in 15+ years. I've ripped those all to my server (as DSF files), but out of 2000+ albums, it is really a tiny subset. If someone wants to purchase DSD music on a continuing basis, then I suppose its a different story.
EDIT: I checked my server and I have 278 DSF files out of something like 17000 songs. Some of those DSF were free samples downloaded from NativeDSD and other companies (mostly out of business now).

treitz3 · April 23

I'm not really sure what my DAC's restrict me at, to be honest. I think I have only been not able to play 3 songs. Then I made a switch in the Lumin (just one adjustment) and haven't had any issues since.

I have been told, that you could not do DSD with an R2R DAC. That's interesting and thanks for setting the record straight.

Like you, I have very limited strictly DSD/SACD files in my library and after debating to myself to keep the DS DAC that I had for quite some time, I bit the bullet and haven't looked back since. I don't really miss it. Some of the DSD sounds bad (from the original recording/mastering itself), so I wasn't really out that much music in the whole grand scheme of things.

I'll have them all back if I ever do get a DAC that can process them, as the new transport can read them. I'm not in any rush though, honestly.

Tom

maxward · April 23

I bought my LKS 004 based largely on Marv’s review. I’m pretty happy with it. Now I’m thinking about getting a streamer/DAC. Any thoughts about the wisdom of keeping the DAC and streamer separate components?

Clipdat · April 23

Re: Streamer/DAC, reading the review of this right now in Stereophile, they seem to like it: https://www.audioadvisor.com/camxn10?sku=NEW-CAMXN10

nooshinjohn · April 23

Happy camper here with the Simaudio 680d, and the 380d before that. The purity and sonic details that emerge from it have transformed how I listen to music. Pairing it with the McIntosh C2300 preamp has taken my listening experience to a completely different level.

PSOVLSK · April 23

Love my Norma Revo DS-2. It’s a CD player/DAC combo, but Norma also has a standalone DAC. I sold the LKS because I purchased the Norma and it’s been a worthwhile upgrade. Now, it’s also an apples to oranges comparison due to price, but most DAC’s listed in this thread are much more expensive than the LKS.

VR3 · April 23

This has been covered

Denafrips uses a different set for dsd, not R2r. It's essentially 2 dacs in one

R-2R DAC to decode PCM data stream and 32 steps FIR analogue filters hardware decoder to decode DSD data stream. These designs guaranteed the PCM format can be perfectly decoded, at the same time, the DSD format can be perfectly decoded as well. It is rare in the currently market that a R-2R DAC can hardware decode both PCM and DSD formats.

Denafrips also doesn't advertise the R2r does dsd...

"26Bit R-2R for PCM decoding, 6Bit DSD hardware decoding with 32 steps FIR filters"

gmcman · April 23

Good topic because I'm really chomping at the bit, a brief input if I may.

My streamer is an Aries Mini into the SA8005, sounds very good. However a Pontus 2 or the DS Mk1 looks very tempting. Thinking on feeding either with a Denafrips Hermes via I2S. I have not had ears on either.

Not sure how the DS pairs with SS amps.

billbillw · April 23

VR3 wrote: »

This has been covered

Denafrips uses a different set for dsd, not R2r. It's essentially 2 dacs in one

R-2R DAC to decode PCM data stream and 32 steps FIR analogue filters hardware decoder to decode DSD data stream. These designs guaranteed the PCM format can be perfectly decoded, at the same time, the DSD format can be perfectly decoded as well. It is rare in the currently market that a R-2R DAC can hardware decode both PCM and DSD formats.

Denafrips also doesn't advertise the R2r does dsd...

"26Bit R-2R for PCM decoding, 6Bit DSD hardware decoding with 32 steps FIR filters"

I guess I didn't read into that as deeply as I could have. With all the reviews for their products, that kinda detail seems to get glossed over.

Jetmaker737 · April 23

Ugh... you guys. Tempting me to spend more money when I just recently got new speakers and a subwoofer.

I figure I can do better than my PS Audio Directstream Jr, and I've had an itch to replace it. It's a DSD DAC. Since I do not have SACD or any DSD files, do I need DSD for any reason?

Interesting thread. I'd heard of R-2R but know nothing beyond the fact that it exists. I asked Bing what it was and it said the following which I found pretty amazing:

An R-2R DAC, or R-2R Digital-to-Analogue Converter, is a data converter that uses two precision resistors to convert a digital binary number into an analogue output signal proportional to the value of the digital number.

The R-2R DAC uses a resistive ladder network, which is a simple and inexpensive way to perform digital-to-analog conversion. This network uses just two resistive values: one resistor has the base value “R”, and the second resistor has twice the value of the first resistor, “2R”. This means that it is much easier to maintain the required accuracy of the resistors along the ladder network compared to other types of DACs.

The R-2R resistive ladder network directly converts a parallel digital symbol/word into an analog voltage. Each digital input (b0, b1, etc.) adds its own weighted contribution to the analog output. This network is easily scalable to any desired number of bits and has an output impedance equal to R, regardless of the number of bits, simplifying filtering and further analog signal processing circuit design.

In summary, the R-2R DAC is a simple, accurate, and cost-effective solution for digital-to-analog conversion. It’s widely used in various applications due to its scalability and the simplicity of its design

VR3 · April 23

Delta sigma to me sounds like over processed wallpaper

R2r sounds like music

Clipdat · April 23

Probably why I like delta-sigma for electronic music.

displayname · April 24

maxward wrote: »

Any thoughts about the wisdom of keeping the DAC and streamer separate components?

I have a DAC/Streamer, and it works wonderfully. However there are some specific drawbacks and advantages.

In my mind there are 2 big advantages of keeping things separate: dedicated power supplies and software obsolescence.

A good DAC can easily last decades. It might not be able to do the flashiest new file formats, but honestly how much music is are you listening to that was actually mastered specifically for that new format, and how many CDs still sound amazing?

The streaming services are what I worry about most in a streamer. Eventually, the software will stop getting updates, just like your phone. Tidal Connect, whatever OS the streamer uses, etc.
It’s not any different from your phone. Companies are getting better about this, but realistically at some point that steaming software will brick an otherwise great device.

If you have separates, you only brick the steamer.
And if you don’t keep stuff for more than 5 years before upgrading, also not an issue.

audioluvr · April 24

I've got the Gustard X26 Pro. I don't see me ever wanting to look for something better.

EndersShadow · April 24

So @displayname has “term limits” on his DACs lol…..

machone · April 25

Mojo Audio V2 here. R-2R design is very natural in my system.

machone · April 25

Here are Mojo Audio's latest offerings

https://www.mojo-audio.com/da-converters/

GlennDog · April 25

In full disclosure, I'm currently running a Lampizator Baltic 4 balanced with Vol Control (preamp functions). Prior to this I had the Lampi Amber 3 in their Limited Edition 10th Anniversary BAL & RCA combo

My previous dac was the Supremo from NSD (North Star Design) . . . In a word, at it's price point . . .

End game for most folks

Really a well built piece of kit and punches above it's price point

displayname · April 26

EndersShadow wrote: »

So @displayname has “term limits” on his DACs lol…..

Other way around. A stand alone DAC can hang around forever. But I fear the streamers might have a term limit if the apps stop getting software updates.

To elaborate, I remember growing up a lot of people’s dads and grandpa’s could have vintage system that didn’t change for decades, driven by vinyl and CD players.
But I’d imagine a steamer gets fully bricked in that situation. Maybe not, but I just don’t know that those pieces will have 20 year lifespans purely due to software no longer being supported. Just like cellphones.

Polkitup2 · April 26

I use a T+A DAC200 which is highly rated and performs excellent on both PCM and DSD up to 1024. It replaced a Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2v2SE and sounds much better. I have had it for for about 1.5 years and had no thoughts of changing. It does everything I need a DAC to do.

xschop · April 26

Does anyone stream directly from a Fire tablet thru a DAC?

I bought a cable adapter from USB-C to USB-B and plugged into Fire tablet connecting to the Cambridge Audio DAC100. (Thanks @Conradicles ) It works and sounds great, The blue sampling light shows 96, but seems like the first song gets some glitches. As an album progresses, the glitches subside. Is this just part of the Amazon HD App's processing and how can I alleviate?
Hope this is ON topic lol.

gyosa · April 26

I’m using an Eversolo DMP-A8 in my main rig and an A6 in my patio system.
Never been happier , no need to spend more money on anything else . Both are fantastic.

Bk

PSOVLSK · April 26

xschop wrote: »

Does anyone stream directly from a Fire tablet thru a DAC?

I bought a cable adapter from USB-C to USB-B and plugged into Fire tablet connecting to the Cambridge Audio DAC100. (Thanks @Conradicles ) It works and sounds great, The blue sampling light shows 96, but seems like the first song gets some glitches. As an album progresses, the glitches subside. Is this just part of the Amazon HD App's processing and how can I alleviate?
Hope this is ON topic lol.

I used to have a FireTV going through my DAC. I used that setup for several years before finally getting a dedicated streamer a few months ago.

xschop · April 29

PSOVLSK wrote: »

xschop wrote: »

Does anyone stream directly from a Fire tablet thru a DAC?

I bought a cable adapter from USB-C to USB-B and plugged into Fire tablet connecting to the Cambridge Audio DAC100. (Thanks @Conradicles ) It works and sounds great, The blue sampling light shows 96, but seems like the first song gets some glitches. As an album progresses, the glitches subside. Is this just part of the Amazon HD App's processing and how can I alleviate?
Hope this is ON topic lol.

I used to have a FireTV going through my DAC. I used that setup for several years before finally getting a dedicated streamer a few months ago.

Weekend update and epiphany moment here. I ran a long USB-B from my PC to the DAC and Amazon HD app on PC never glitches AT ALL. It dawned on me to check the tablet wifi speed (27mbps) compared to the HP PC (300+mbps). I changed the tablet from 2.4GHZ wifi signal to 5.0ghz signal (tested 214mbs). Hooked it back up to the Cambridge DAC and presto...Zero glitches

pearsall001 · April 30

Anyone have listening experience with a Chord Qutest DAC? It has been around for quite some time & certainly still gets great reviews at it's under 2k price point.
I'm still very, very pleased with the LKS DAC but might be itching to try something different in the under 1.5k range.

Dr_Wu · April 30

Love mine - been listening to it for about 3 years now, and won't be looking to change. I've pared my system down to an ER w/external clock, streamer, DAC, and amp, great cables, and clean power. The sound is detailed, not fatiguing, and balanced
with a very live-presentation soundstage.

Let's talk DAC's

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