2 Subs For Music
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pearsall001 wrote: »REL 6 pack...'nuff said! 🤗
I heard Batman has one extra ab.CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC
DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)
Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777
Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)
Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150
Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i
Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart
Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables. -
PSA
Rythmik
JTR
Deep Sea Sound
Funk
Seaton Sound
Harbottle
GSG
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In my theater sub, I can start to localize anything above 60hz. If you are crossing over above 50hz, imo stereo subs is a must.
The wave lengths below 50hz are so large most rooms would have issues localizing that unless you are localizing distortions.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
In my theater sub, I can start to localize anything above 60hz. If you are crossing over above 50hz, imo stereo subs is a must.
The wave lengths below 50hz are so large most rooms would have issues localizing that unless you are localizing distortions.
Be careful spouting that scientific fact stuff in these parts. You’re exactly right, though.CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC
DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)
Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777
Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)
Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150
Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i
Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart
Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables. -
Yes!Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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In my theater sub, I can start to localize anything above 60hz. If you are crossing over above 50hz, imo stereo subs is a must.
The wave lengths below 50hz are so large most rooms would have issues localizing that unless you are localizing distortions.
That is why I get such a kick out of the car folks spouting their subwoofers capabilities. I'm like that bass wave is 33' long your car is 12' there's no way you can hear that inside your car, it's 16' outside your car.... But hey that is a tremendous vibration to the license plate you got going
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In my theater sub, I can start to localize anything above 60hz. If you are crossing over above 50hz, imo stereo subs is a must.
The wave lengths below 50hz are so large most rooms would have issues localizing that unless you are localizing distortions.
That is why I get such a kick out of the car folks spouting their subwoofers capabilities. I'm like that bass wave is 33' long your car is 12' there's no way you can hear that inside your car, it's 16' outside your car.... But hey that is a tremendous vibration to the license plate you got going
Not to mention the hearing loss they will inevitably suffer.CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC
DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)
Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777
Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)
Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150
Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i
Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart
Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables. -
In my theater sub, I can start to localize anything above 60hz. If you are crossing over above 50hz, imo stereo subs is a must.
The wave lengths below 50hz are so large most rooms would have issues localizing that unless you are localizing distortions.
That is why I get such a kick out of the car folks spouting their subwoofers capabilities. I'm like that bass wave is 33' long your car is 12' there's no way you can hear that inside your car, it's 16' outside your car.... But hey that is a tremendous vibration to the license plate you got going
Yeah!!! Who's plate again??? These guys be rattling my tailgate open when they go by.......Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
*sigh*
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
2 subs in HT is a noticeable difference in terms of balancing the sound. I dont use the subs in 2 channel for one reason; i use a separate 2 channel pre for music. Im satisfied with the bass the 1.2TLs produce but wouldnt be opposed to trying subs in 2 channel to evaluate the difference____________________________________________________________
polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, ADCOM GFA 7807 + 5400, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050 -
So, there is no reason why Stereophile only awards a class A rating to full range (20 hz-20 Khz) speakers? Why engineers (who typically don't use subs to mix) might pan the upright bass (which can go down to 40 hz with harmonics even lower) to the right speaker because that cat is standing stage left, and the piano (which can go down to 27.5 hz) to the left because he is stage right? You don't think there is any way the bass gets muddled if you cross it all over at 80 Hz and send it to one sub? Really?Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
There's a song by government mule, like a ram I think it is. The bass guitar is a hard right pan, shoots out like 8ft past the right speaker... Single sub isn't pulling that off- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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If you are running anything less than 24 subs I feel sorry for you.
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This is the way- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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So, there is no reason why Stereophile only awards a class A rating to full range (20 hz-20 Khz) speakers? Why engineers (who typically don't use subs to mix) might pan the upright bass (which can go down to 40 hz with harmonics even lower) to the right speaker because that cat is standing stage left, and the piano (which can go down to 27.5 hz) to the left because he is stage right? You don't think there is any way the bass gets muddled if you cross it all over at 80 Hz and send it to one sub? Really?
Nice to see more forum members who know how to correlate measurements to subjective sonic experiences!CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC
DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)
Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777
Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)
Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150
Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i
Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart
Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables. -
I would think with 2 channel music you would want to run your speakers full range with multiple subs.
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There's a song by government mule, like a ram I think it is. The bass guitar is a hard right pan, shoots out like 8ft past the right speaker... Single sub isn't pulling that off
I just recently got into Gov't Mule.....good stuff!!Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
Gotta give Warren Haynes credit! He and his band really jam! Their recent tour with Jason Bonham was fantastic! Warren played his guitar hard and sang with gusto, almost non stop, for two and a half hours! Not too shabby for a 64 year old rocker!Sources: Technics SL1200MKII | SME3009 Tonearm | Monster Alpha 1 MC cartridge | Oppo UDP203 disk player | Nikko NT-790 analog tuner | Musical Fidelity Trivista 21 DAC | Preamp: Threshold SL-10 | Amplifier: Threshold Stasis 2 | Speakers: Snell Acoustics C/V | Kimber 12-TC bi wire speakers | Analysis plus Oval 1 preamp to amp | Wireworld Eclipse 7 DAC to Preamp | Wireworld eclipse digital IC Oppo to DAC | Audioquest Quartz tuner to preamp |
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I would think with 2 channel music you would want to run your speakers full range with multiple subs.
I do. My mains go down to around 22Hz (ran full range) and I have the two Rhytmik's set at 33Hz. They are set at a volume level of about 6 out of 50, so they are barely even running, high Q, steep slope and crossed over at 33Hz. There are some other adjustments on the subs but I can't remember off of the top of my head where they are set at - at the moment. The PEQ is disabled. The dual subs are utilized to enhance the lowest of octaves when called for, digging down to around 14Hz.
I can assure you that stereo effects exist in the lower regions. Not on all recordings but on some, it's undeniable. It also greatly enhances the aural pleasure one gets from the performance of their rig IME.
Back in the day, I didn't use to do it this way. But that was back when I had one sub. That was a VMPS Larger powered by an external amplifier. That system was set up using a Velodyme SMS-1 PEQ that blended the sub to the mains and vice versa, then both to the room. On that setup, I did not utilize the speakers as full range. Of course, I had different speakers/amps back then as well.
Between what I had then and what I have now? Vast difference in the lower regions performance and aural pleasure. The old system was "automatic", if you will. In other words, the SMS-1 did most of the work for you. Then, you fine tuned by ear beyond that. My current setup, everything is done by ear. I much prefer running the mains full range. Others may not though. I just so happen to have an amplifier that doesn't need power to be freed up, which is what some prefer to do and part of the reason why they don't run them full range. YMMV.
My point is, that I just so happen to agree with your thoughts on the mains @invalid.There's a song by government mule, like a ram I think it is. The bass guitar is a hard right pan, shoots out like 8ft past the right speaker... Single sub isn't pulling that off
While I haven't heard this specific selection yet, this sounds like it would be a great example of a lower register being "in stereo", just like the rest of the spectrum of frequencies.
TomPost edited by treitz3 on~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Thanks for the all the replies. I currently have a Rythmik L12 and plan to get an F12. The F12 would go in the front right corner next to the mains and the L12 in the left rear due to space issues. I'd be running them with a minidsp flex htx to handle eq (currently I don't use any) and crossover because my preamp lacks a separate sub out. Initially with the L12 I did everything manually and that took over a week to get integrated.
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So, there is no reason why Stereophile only awards a class A rating to full range (20 hz-20 Khz) speakers? Why engineers (who typically don't use subs to mix) might pan the upright bass (which can go down to 40 hz with harmonics even lower) to the right speaker because that cat is standing stage left, and the piano (which can go down to 27.5 hz) to the left because he is stage right? You don't think there is any way the bass gets muddled if you cross it all over at 80 Hz and send it to one sub? Really?
The one factor your leaving out is trying to recreate a performance in your room. The room is the biggest factor in creating bass.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Thanks for the all the replies. I currently have a Rythmik L12 and plan to get an F12. The F12 would go in the front right corner next to the mains and the L12 in the left rear due to space issues. I'd be running them with a minidsp flex htx to handle eq (currently I don't use any) and crossover because my preamp lacks a separate sub out. Initially with the L12 I did everything manually and that took over a week to get integrated.
I do also think that a good sub EQ is key. I use Dirac live and it is a game change for sub integration in my room.Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
Just an update, I ended up getting an F18. I had no idea using 2 subs would make such a huge difference. Bass is richer and fuller and it just adds another dimension to the music. I'll be replacing the L12 with another F18 in the near future.
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Yes indeed dual subs make such a huge difference in the entire music presentation. Congrats & enjoy your new found musical bliss!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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LOL. Trey, quit pulling people's legs.....
People who don't know us will think we are crackpots.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
But Tom we are crack pots... On Tuesday- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Heck... it's no secret, we're all nuts on here!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
