Clarity capacitor
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A bypass cap needs to be as small as possible, duelund is literally .01uf
3uf is not a bypass cap unless maybe you are like 1000uf lol- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Here is a copy of the product description for the MIT Multicap developed by Richard Marsh and made by the REL company:
"REL uses the same basic extended foil construction, but with many significant enhancements that improve the performance in a way that no other capacitor can (the techniques are patented). Note that a characteristic of any conventional capacitor in A/V use is that it must be bypassed. The other capacitors in use in audio have to be bypassed, externally, as some of their literature admits. The MultiCapTM alone is already bypassed internally (up to ten times), and we recommend further bypassing only for the very largest values. The MultiCapTM is not a single cap of 1000 + turns. It is ten smaller-value high-speed capacitors all wound in parallel to make up the total stated value. In other words, a 1 microfarad MultiCapTM is made up of 10 complete .1 microfarad capacitors joined internally in parallel. This is called "internal bypassing," or sometimes "self-bypassing." One MultiCapTM is like ten standard caps in parallel. And made with superior construction techniques."
This internal connection scheme can lower the series inductance of the Multicaps. -
that is interesting, they also state this on their AudioCapX line capacitors : "This exclusive design also solves the problems of multiple resonances encountered when a circuit’s high-frequency impedance is lowered by externally paralleling a large, conventionally wound capacitor with smaller ones, as in typical bypass designs."
I guess these resonances are perceived by some as improvement in sound quality whereas others hear it as a sound distortion/degradation in sound quality.... -
the problems of multiple resonances encountered when a circuit’s high-frequency impedance is lowered by externally paralleling a large, conventionally wound capacitor with smaller ones, as in typical bypass designs."
BINGO!!!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
A bypass cap needs to be as small as possible, duelund is literally .01uf
3uf is not a bypass cap unless maybe you are like 1000uf lol
Oh lol. I don't know what Polk did with the RT3000p then. I think I'll just replace them with all CSAs -
Polk would at times use two caps to obtain the spec'd value if they didn't have the correct value in a single cap.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Polk would at times use two caps to obtain the spec'd value if they didn't have the correct value in a single cap.
Well the 3uF is in parallel with the resistor, and the 9uF is then in series with those two. I have no idea honestly. It's way over my head this one. -
Polk would at times use two caps to obtain the spec'd value if they didn't have the correct value in a single cap.
Well the 3uF is in parallel with the resistor, and the 9uF is then in series with those two. I have no idea honestly. It's way over my head this one.
That actually sounded like humility
A resistor in parallel with a capacitor is a type of contour network
George / NJ
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I challenge anyone to critically listen to tweeters and report back their.... Findings- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Crap! You mean I spent $1,000 on caps for nothing?Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
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There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
ARS...LOL...WAAAAAAAAAAAA...LOLPolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Gardenstater wrote: »
Polk would at times use two caps to obtain the spec'd value if they didn't have the correct value in a single cap.
Well the 3uF is in parallel with the resistor, and the 9uF is then in series with those two. I have no idea honestly. It's way over my head this one.
That actually sounded like humility
A resistor in parallel with a capacitor is a type of contour network
Okay so I'm going CSA for everything and I'm going to stop worrying. If it ain't a bypass, uhhh... CSA will save my *ss? -
so I wrote email to Tony - Humble homemade hifi to get budget cap recommendation for the RTi A7.
He was kind to respond and In his response to my question on how to tame RTi A7 brightness, what is the best budget cap to use and should I retain 0.47uF bypass per original Polk design he said that using higher quality components (caps/resistors) will only make inherent brightness more obvious to the ear. The only way to work around this is to modify the schematic, like maybe increasing the value of the tweeter resistor to attenuate upper frequency response.
RTi A7 frequency response:
He said that I should probably add more resistance into circuit if I recap with film capacitors to compensate for electrolytic capacitors relatively high internal resistance.
Out of 3 budget caps ( Audyn Q4, Standard Z and PX) he recommended that Clarity Cap PX would be the best option as it is the smoothest sounding.
He would also include bypass caps as their value is quite high compared the the main value. For example the 8.2 is actually 8.67 with the 0.47uF bypass. That is a more than 5% increase.
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My modded RTiA speakers are no longer bright. No stinkin' bypass caps either. So...Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
What are we listening for?I challenge anyone to critically listen to tweeters and report back their.... Findings
over the past 6-7 years, I’ve listened to mine many times. Same each for the mids & woofers
Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work -
I challenge anyone to critically listen to tweeters and report back their.... Findings
to stir the pot a little bit :-)
here are the sound samples from all 3 caps, can you hear the difference? Kind of hard to do with only tweeter playing...
Findings from ASR:
"If you don't trust your ears, you can also analyze the audio samples using software. DeltaWave from forum member @pkane is excellent for this.
In post#32 he compared the "Fast Car" samples Alumen-Z-Cap vs. Standard-Cap and Standard-Cap vs. Old-Cap with DeltaWave.
With DeltaWave, however, anyone can perform the analyses themselves. It is only important to note that with the cap samples everything below 1kHz and above 22kHz is ignored (below 1kHz noise distorts the samples, above 22kHz is outside the recording range).
For example, here is the delta spectra of the comparison Alumen Z-Cap and the standard cap for the "Fast Car" and pink noise samples:
On average, the deviations of the two recordings are clearly below +-0.1dB, even individual peaks hardly exceed +-0.1dB." -
I challenge anyone to critically listen to tweeters and report back their.... Findings
to still the pot a bit :-)
Has anyone listened to this song sample with 3 different caps in the tweeter path?
I listened to all 3 samples with my bose headphones and it is super hard to listen to the just tweeter and let alone tell the difference...files are in the link/post below:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/audible-difference-in-high-end-capacitors-abx-samples.48703/post-1745313
They apparently did the sound sample difference plots between the regular and fancy cap and found very little different?
from ASR:
"6) Samples analyzed with DeltaWave
If you don't trust your ears, you can also analyze the audio samples using software. DeltaWave from forum member @pkane is excellent for this.
In post#32 he compared the "Fast Car" samples Alumen-Z-Cap vs. Standard-Cap and Standard-Cap vs. Old-Cap with DeltaWave.
With DeltaWave, however, anyone can perform the analyses themselves. It is only important to note that with the cap samples everything below 1kHz and above 22kHz is ignored (below 1kHz noise distorts the samples, above 22kHz is outside the recording range).
For example, here is the delta spectra of the comparison Alumen Z-Cap and the standard cap for the
On average, the deviations of the two recordings are clearly below +-0.1dB, even individual peaks hardly exceed +-0.1dB.
With the software it is also possible to listen to the difference of two samples. To that end, @pkane provided a recording of the differences between the Alumen Z-cap and the standard cap.
This is the real difference (including all differences of phase, distortion, decay, SPL,...) between the two caps. -
So the Yellow Dragons sounded about as good as the expensive caps?Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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to still the pot a bit :-)
I'm thinking you meant "stir" the pot.
Which you're certainly trying to do here.
You put a Solen cap in the tweeter circuit and tell me you cannot hear how shrill and screechy that cap is.
If you cannot you should get your ears checked.
BTW I do not want to listen to any of this crud you keep trying to prove whatever point it is you're trying prove. I've heard it on my system on my speakers with my CD/SACD I've heard a thousand times.
I've heard the differences.... period!!! -
Next he will be telling us it's all confirmation bias, he can't help himself.
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I prefer orange noise when I listen to a single tweeter as it's more refreshing.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
to still the pot a bit :-)
I'm thinking you meant "stir" the pot.
Which you're certainly trying to do here.
You put a Solen cap in the tweeter circuit and tell me you cannot hear how shrill and screechy that cap is.
If you cannot you should get your ears checked.
BTW I do not want to listen to any of this crud you keep trying to prove whatever point it is you're trying prove. I've heard it on my system on my speakers with my CD/SACD I've heard a thousand times.
I've heard the differences.... period!!!
Yes, sorry for typo.
Not trying to prove anything just curious why it seems so difficult to capture/measure the sound differences between the regular film cap and expensive one?
I will recap/play with my speakers and let's see what my ears hear
Maybe best approach is to eliminate passive XO all together so resistors/caps and inductors are out of the picture all together like @gp4jesus has done on his set up but that requires even more equipment/$$$?
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[quote=
Maybe best approach is to eliminate passive XO all together so resistors/caps and inductors are out of the picture all together like @gp4jesus has done on his set up but that requires even more equipment/$$$?
[/quote]
This approach has sonic complications of it's own, with both digital or analog.
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@invalid - the greatest complication is more cables of every kind that a sound system requires😂😢 See below.Originally from zvucnik…
“Maybe best approach is to eliminate passive XO all together so resistors, caps, and inductors are out of the picture all together like @gp4jesus has done on his set up but that requires even more equipment/$$$?”
This approach has sonic complications of it's own, with both digital or analog.
@zvucnik…
“…that requires even more equipment/$$$?” It cost$ to play. Plan to add…
2 way:
- one amp
- A 2-way XO
- 2 ICs per channel
- one speaker wire run per channel
- Power provision for 2 add’l devices
3 way:
- 2 amps
- Two 2-way or one 3-way XO
- up to 4 ICs per channel
- three speaker wire runs per channel
- Power provision for up to 4 add’l devices
You may need a new means to house your total equipment increase & some equipment to calibrate* the same.
*your ear can’t “see” a dip @ a XO frequency; same for room modes.
DSP powered XOs are rich w/add’l features are more common today w/ pedestrian price tags to boot. They allow MUCH easier, more precise
- filtering control
- essentially push button filter type (eg BW, LR etc)
- PB filter steepness or slopes (6, - 12dB/octave, etc**) w/less phase impact than passive
- equalization w/less phase impact
- some include the means to reduce if not eliminate timing distortion between drivers.
One other bonus: efficiency. All of the amps’ power is/are available to drive (& dampen) the speakers’ components.
**from 6dB to 24dB/octave is common. As high as 48dB/octave is not unusual
Passive filters. It’s undeniable pluses are simplicity & cost.
Driver inductance & back EMF can & does make the design process much more difficult. As you increase the filter order, complexity, phase shift, component count, and cost go with it. Time correction & equalization adds to the above. Another drawback: lower system efficiency. The circuitry converts a portion of amplifier power into heat.
I’ve read of some using EXOs to determine what XO frequencies work best. Then design passive filters accordingly.
You decide. I haven’t looked back.Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
