SDA SRS resonance isolation from wood flooring
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Hello PolkiSphere!
I have recently acquired some SDA SRS 2.3s in excellent physical condition, and working thru a few blown drivers and original XOs.
My room is a sub floor, hardwood. My previous speakers were Focal 1027 BEs and I wound up making great gains in resonance control using GAIA IIs to decouple them from their surroundings.
Has anyone used the GAIA Is (220lb limit) for their SRS, SRS 1.2, SRS 1.2TL, SRS 2.3, or SRS 2.3TLs?
Dynamat has its place, but cannot fix a room with hard floors, or minimum spacing to corners due to restrictions. DIRAC Live and other software adjustments can make strides in these situations, but adding the GAIA IIS to the Focals blew any SW adjustments away and neutralized the room harmonics in a better wat.
Welcoming experienced responses in this area, thanks!
I have recently acquired some SDA SRS 2.3s in excellent physical condition, and working thru a few blown drivers and original XOs.
My room is a sub floor, hardwood. My previous speakers were Focal 1027 BEs and I wound up making great gains in resonance control using GAIA IIs to decouple them from their surroundings.
Has anyone used the GAIA Is (220lb limit) for their SRS, SRS 1.2, SRS 1.2TL, SRS 2.3, or SRS 2.3TLs?
Dynamat has its place, but cannot fix a room with hard floors, or minimum spacing to corners due to restrictions. DIRAC Live and other software adjustments can make strides in these situations, but adding the GAIA IIS to the Focals blew any SW adjustments away and neutralized the room harmonics in a better wat.
Welcoming experienced responses in this area, thanks!
Post edited by CFarrell_SoundUnited on
Comments
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So I have used the gaias and they definitely change the sound. All of the energy that leaves thru spikes into the floor, ie coupling is now decoupled from the structure and kept with the speakers.
My tale away is this, if you don't listen loud, I don't think you will have a problem. When I listen I tend to have over 90db peaks and I flat out hated it.
They totally sucked the life and dynamic range from the speakers and the speakers developed all kinds of odd behaviors at different frequency ranges.
On the flip side, I did hear a set of the sda srs with them at lower volumes and they sounded fine.
My final thoughts is that it is audio jewelry that won't be for everyone and costs alot of money- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Great feedback. I think I have to agree with that, but it was the best for my current room, compared to DIRAC software acoustic adjustments for example.
Hard to consider spiking my beautiful real hardwood floors ...and spikes on discs seem hard to manage with these beasts.
SRS owners, like me hopefully like to rattle the foundation at times, as well as listen to the subtle greatness they provide at moderate listening levels.
I had 10Bs 30 years ago as my first serious set of speakers for a really long time. Once my buddy bought some SDA SRSs new in the late 80s, no matter what I have heard after those, I have always compared them with the SRSs."
I am aware of all the best mods for the SRSs, and am just trying to weigh all the options for dialing them in for this environment.
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I can't comment on the Gaia(s) but I do have a wood floor over a basement and I decided early on after watching Townshend Audio videos and being an engineer that I was definitely going to do vibration isolation but I went DIY. I rarely feel anything but the tiniest vibration pulse through the floor any more but I still do occasionally so I need to do a little more work in refining mine.
I have wondered about vibration isolation for tall massive speakers like the SRS. One has to consider that MP came up with the bass brace for these. One thing for sure, I would want to have a large footprint via some outriggers for stability before trying any thing like springs and roller blocks. I use a brace on my subwoofer because one time while playing some AC/DC song that must've hit a resonant frequency I actually saw it rocking like R2D2. Was actually pretty funny but I had to come up with a brace after that.
I'll be interested in your results if you do
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Crown D150 amp
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Are the Gaia's constructed from polyurethane inserts or suspension spring mechanisms?Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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It is like a spring- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Thought so. Solid outriggers with internal springs would be the ticket for the heavy SRS's.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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The GAIAs are costly, directional (all have to face the same direction), and they "stick to the floor" in a suction cup kind of way. On rough tile, they probably wont stick. The sticking sucks, in a "this sucks" kind of way, to make them impossible to make minor positioning adjustments. The ones for SRSs are $499 (ouch).
There has to be a best compromise here, so what are some of you in similar flooring situations using for feet on SRSs? -
$499/set of 4? ....and no outriggers.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Well I guess one could use the factory glides and place those hard rubber squares that go under wooden table legs that are available at your Home Depot, Menards or Lowe's stores.
Just spit ballin here. -
The bass brace came about as a way to help prevent the speaker from falling over such as in the event of an earthquake, think California. It was not originally designed to enhance the bass response.
I tried the bass brace without spikes, with spikes and the speakers with only spikes. I did not like the results of using the bass brace either way. One thing I noted when using the bass brace without spikes, the speakers were not anchored in a way that prevented the cabinets from moving. The bass brace acted as a pivot point. Not good.
The bass response is definitely better
using spikes alone.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Just noticed this thread is in the wrong section. @CFarrell_SoundUnited, please move this thread to the Speaker section.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Spikes couple the mass of the speakers to the floor. If the Gaia's are spring-loaded, then they decouple. I think that's what you're (AMF007) are looking into?
I recently made these and they fixed alot of the adjacent room vibes happening with the factory footers installed. Being only 3ea for self-leveling purposes, I'm not sure I would want to put them under anything larger than 1C's because the kiddo likes to play with them.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/197223/seismic-ball-bearing-isolators#latest
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
From the Nov 1988 Stereo Review, where they reviewed the 2.3:
"Another innovation of the SDASRS 2.3 is the Bass Brace. A powerful low -bass signal would cause all seven bass diaphragms to operate in phase, and that might rock or vibrate the entire system back and forth slightly. Designer Matthew Polk was concerned that these shifts would cause frequency modulation of treble tones that might degrade the clarity and image focus. To deal with the same problem, smaller speakers are often mounted on spiked feet to anchor them to the floor. This would probably be an impractical solution with the large, heavy SDA-SRS 2.3's, but Polk came up with an ingeniously simple alternative. Several lengths of threaded steel rods are supplied that can be screwed into a fitting on the rear panel of the speaker, adjusted to fit between the speaker and the wall behind it, and screwed into a complementary wall fitting, which can be screwed in place or fastened to the wall with double -sided adhesive tape. With the Bass Brace installed, the cabinet is firmly restrained against rocking or vibration. According to Polk, it makes a definite improvement in the imaging stability of the system. (The Bass Brace is also now standard with the SDA-SRS 1.2.)"
So according to this, it was to prevent bass heavy music from adversely affecting the clarity and image focus, due to frequency modulation of the treble tones.
I can honestly say that adding a brace to my subwoofer definitely tightened the bass, but that is a special situation of having my sub on a spring loaded vibration isolation platform that will permit a rocking motion.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Crown D150 amp
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Matt Polk you say?
He was onto something there....
Isn't a goal of isolators to keep errant vibes from translating back into the moving driver coils?Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Gardenstater wrote: »blah
Marketing BS. I already gave the real reason for the brace, which came straight from the man.
BTW, the larger SDA's came with spikes. So much for the impractical solution with the large, heavy speakers.
Do the forum a favor, stop trying to act like you know what is what. You don't.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
So Matt wasn't in control of his marketing campaign. Learn something new every day here at the CCP.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Jesse has been saying this for years without exception and if you heard his rig? There would be no doubt in your mind. Like none.
I would personally not ever brace a speaker to the wall, as you are transferring energy in a way that isn't an attribute. More like a deficiency.
Spikes, even if they are on a plinth to protect flooring, are the way to go with heavy speakers IME/IMO.
There is no need to reinvent the wheel. Polk designed the brace as a safety feature.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
What would be the right size compression springs on all 4 corners with outriggers 5" out? Say 100lb speakersDon't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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What would be the right size compression springs on all 4 corners with outriggers 5" out? Say 100lb speakers
Well assuming you designed the lengths of the outriggers so that each spring saw 25 lbs, you would pick a spring that starts out long enough and has an appropriate spring constant so that it can experience 3" of static compression and still not be bottomed out. The spring constant needs to be less than or equal to 25lbs/3in. which is 8.3 lbs/in. That would give you an undamped system but providing maximum isolation with a resonant frequency of 2Hz or less. That is what Towshend Audio advises is a good value to isolate from things like truck vibrations and is quite a bit lower than audio frequencies. General rule of thumb is maximum resonant frequency of 1/3 of the minimum frequency you wish to have reasonably good isolation from.
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Crown D150 amp
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
These were my prototype mechanisms for a turntable iso-platform design my friend wants me to build. I don't see why larger sq/dia. outrigger and heavier springs couldn't be calculated for each Large SDA...
2 Hz is achievable in the GLIC model.
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
I can honestly say that adding a brace to my subwoofer definitely tightened the bass, but that is a special situation of having my sub on a spring loaded vibration isolation platform that will permit a rocking motion.
One doesn't need anymore proof than the above that a speaker has no business on spring loaded devices.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I can honestly say that adding a brace to my subwoofer definitely tightened the bass, but that is a special situation of having my sub on a spring loaded vibration isolation platform that will permit a rocking motion.
One doesn't need anymore proof than the above that a speaker has no business on spring loaded devices.
So the GAIA's are a scam?Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Happy reading...
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/understanding-coupling-decoupling-with-particular-reference-to-loudspeakers.4253/
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I can honestly say that adding a brace to my subwoofer definitely tightened the bass, but that is a special situation of having my sub on a spring loaded vibration isolation platform that will permit a rocking motion.
One doesn't need anymore proof than the above that a speaker has no business on spring loaded devices.
That was when I didn't have the resonant frequency low enough, so that it got "triggered". Since then I have gotten it down around 2Hz. Bass slams you in the chest. The brace may not be necessary anymore but it is there and I'm leaving it for now and it was an improvement for sure at the time. Subwoofers have very strong magnet motors and heavier cones and not so compliant suspensions, by design. I also have about 60 lbs of inertial mass loading on the sub. The vibrations from the sub do not make it to any of my other components and do not vibrate my floor or objects on the floor.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Crown D150 amp
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
These were my prototype mechanisms for a turntable iso-platform design my friend wants me to build. I don't see why larger sq/dia. outrigger and heavier springs couldn't be calculated for each Large SDA...
2 Hz is achievable in the GLIC model.
He will be happy. I'm not doing turntables currently, but my local audio bud Steve just did that, or shall I say finally got the springs right and dialed in, and he is extremely happy with what he is hearing. He sent me a picture but not sure I should post without getting permission.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Crown D150 amp
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
I remember reading this thread moons ago. My poor man's solution was floor savers glued to granite, then the speaker spikes set to those savers and the granite on felt moving pads
This worked really well for the Mezzo- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Gardenstater wrote: »These were my prototype mechanisms for a turntable iso-platform design my friend wants me to build. I don't see why larger sq/dia. outrigger and heavier springs couldn't be calculated for each Large SDA...
2 Hz is achievable in the GLIC model.
He will be happy. I'm not doing turntables currently, but my local audio bud Steve just did that, or shall I say finally got the springs right and dialed in, and he is extremely happy with what he is hearing. He sent me a picture but not sure I should post without getting permission.
He got the idea from a couple of his large CNCs that have spring suspension isolators basesDon't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
