Poor quality music

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VR3
VR3 Posts: 28,020
edited October 2011 in Music & Movies
Makes me want to sell my stereo and listen to a boombox...

Then I throw in Millage Gilbert and its like stepping into another dimension...

Unfortunately my electronics are revealing every freaking god darned thing wrong with some of my recordings in my collection that even on bad speakers bad recordings sound bad... thats not how its supposed to work!

I guess I need a brand new rig from top to bottom with just bare bones basic so I can listen to crap.
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
Post edited by VR3 on
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  • decal
    decal Posts: 3,205
    edited October 2011
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    I would think bad recordings would always sound bad on bad speakers!!!! Am I missing something here?
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,020
    edited October 2011
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    I have found while yes your statement is true if you have components with less detail they reveal less therefore the recordings are more bearable.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited October 2011
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    So, the goal here is to acquire the best crummy stereo?
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    edited October 2011
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    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Makes me want to sell my stereo and listen to a boombox...

    Then I throw in Millage Gilbert and its like stepping into another dimension...

    Unfortunately my electronics are revealing every freaking god darned thing wrong with some of my recordings in my collection that even on bad speakers bad recordings sound bad... thats not how its supposed to work!

    I guess I need a brand new rig from top to bottom with just bare bones basic so I can listen to crap.

    That is exactly how it's supposed to work. I experience this on a daily basis and sometimes you have to get past the poorer recordings and get into the music. Of course if the music isn't that good and the recording isn't that good, why bother? What;s the payoff? I've had it go both ways. Listening to fantastic music but it;s either older or poorly recorded and I've also grown to like some music based on how well it's recorded..........atleast is has enhanced my pleasure because it's recorded fantastically.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,352
    edited October 2011
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    That is exactly how it's supposed to work. I experience this on a daily basis and sometimes you have to get past the poorer recordings and get into the music. Of course if the music isn't that good and the recording isn't that good, why bother? What;s the payoff? I've had it go both ways. Listening to fantastic music but it;s either older or poorly recorded and I've also grown to like some music based on how well it's recorded..........atleast is has enhanced my pleasure because it's recorded fantastically.

    H9

    +1 to that!
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,027
    edited October 2011
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    Perish the thought that a true music lover (as opposed to the "audiophiles") be bansished to a repertoire of Sara K, Jazz at the Pawnshop, Telarc and Mapleshade recordings! There's much fine music that sounds just awful. What's a hifi buff to do?

    It's not a bad strategy to own a pair (or two!) of more forgiving loudspeakers if one's tastes run to the popular, the (very) vintage, and the poorly mixed, mastered, recorded (or pretty much anything released on vinyl in the 1980s!). Examples, you say? Nothing sounds bad through a pair of the original Quad ESL-57 electrostatics. The 1970s-vintage ads (and/or the extremely-closely related Braun) loudpeakers are among the least-fatiguing traditional "monkey coffin" loudspeakers I've ever heard (the ol' Polk Audio Monitor Series Model 7 ain't bad either in this regard). Personal experience with one of the small Ohm "Walsh" speakers (possibly the Model 2, but I am still not quite sure of that) also found them to be extermely forgiving of poorer-quality source material.

    Not an exhaustive list, but food for thought.
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
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    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Perish the thought that a true music lover (as opposed to the "audiophiles") be bansished to a repertoire of Sara K, Jazz at the Pawnshop, Telarc and Mapleshade recordings! There's much fine music that sounds just awful. What's a hifi buff to do?

    It's not a bad strategy to own a pair (or two!) of more forgiving loudspeakers if one's tastes run to the popular, the (very) vintage, and the poorly mixed, mastered, recorded (or pretty much anything released on vinyl in the 1980s!). Examples, you say? Nothing sounds bad through a pair of the original Quad ESL-57 electrostatics. The 1970s-vintage ads (and/or the extremely-closely related Braun) loudpeakers are among the least-fatiguing traditional "monkey coffin" loudspeakers I've ever heard (the ol' Polk Audio Monitor Series Model 7 ain't bad either in this regard). Personal experience with one of the small Ohm "Walsh" speakers (possibly the Model 2, but I am still not quite sure of that) also found them to be extermely forgiving of poorer-quality source material.

    Not an exhaustive list, but food for thought.

    I like this idea.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,027
    edited October 2011
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    ads L-710, a personal fave. Smooth, like buttah.

    P1020547.jpg
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,015
    edited October 2011
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    My ADS L-710's were the clearest sounding speakers I've heard to date. The detail was phenominal so I would think that would put them in the highly revealing of pour quality recordings. Now my ADS L620's fit the smooth category like you describe. Kinda like the Monitor 10's sound with the peerless.

    I like the idea of a less than stellar system for some less than critical or poor recordings listening. Even the radio per se. But my new to me older Sony ES tuner shure makes the radio sound like a cd or vinyl spinning. Really.

    After a certain point in our journey we have a hard time or refuse to listen to vinyl that is not clean and clear. You know your an audiophile when that happens!
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,027
    edited October 2011
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    tony millard wrote: »
    My ADS L-710's were the clearest sounding speakers I've heard to date. The detail was phenominal so I would think that would put them in the highly revealing of pour quality recordings. Now my ADS L620's fit the smooth category like you describe. Kinda like the Monitor 10's sound with the peerless...

    Certainly not my impression of the L-710. They want for nothing, but they're utterly nonfatiguing. Detail? Ever hear a Lowther fullrange driver? My Altec Duplexes do 'detail' well (I'd say they were "highly resolving", but those are just froofy words)... but they're not obnoxious about it (ahem, Klipsch Cornwalls. ahem...).

    Now the Cornies I had - those could be painful with poor quality program material! ABBA? oy, veh!. ABBA's OK on the Duplexes, and fine on the L-710s.
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,015
    edited October 2011
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    I found no fault with the L-710's or them being as harsh as some Klipsch's or some JBL's. The sound that came from them was like a blanket being removed from in front of a set of speakers. I've done alot of A/B comparisons with my now gone L-710's and they were the best at detail and clarity. A set of Avids were like that too.

    No, I haven't heard a Lowther fullrange driver yet. I have read great things about them though.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,027
    edited October 2011
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    Pair of AVID 102s downstairs, too. They're good, but not in the same league as the ads. Didn't cost like the ads when they were new, either, though.

    As to Lowthers, they can sound scary good, or just scary. Largely depends on the program material and electronics chain. They're speakers for masochists :-)
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited October 2011
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    I had a pair of ADS L-700's from bought new in 1975. These were identical to the 710's but without the soft dome midrange. They replaced a pair of the original large Advents. They did everything the large advents did, but with more openness and transparency.

    I managed to blow one of the woofers when my soon to be ex turned the the volume up all the way. They were being powered by a Marantz 240 (120 wpc) power amp, which was pretty clean, but they were only rated for 35 watts.

    Had 'em repaired under warranty, and then I think a tweeter went out several years later. This was before the internet/google/how to forums etc. Knowing nothing about speaker tweaking/repair/modding I carted 'em to the thrift store :eek:

    I had already bought RTA 12C's, which were leaps better in every category. Still, I'd like to have 'em back today.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited October 2011
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    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Makes me want to sell my stereo and listen to a boombox...

    Then I throw in Millage Gilbert and its like stepping into another dimension...

    Unfortunately my electronics are revealing every freaking god darned thing wrong with some of my recordings in my collection that even on bad speakers bad recordings sound bad... thats not how its supposed to work!

    I guess I need a brand new rig from top to bottom with just bare bones basic so I can listen to crap.

    Agree with many of above comments, in that when the recording is bad you have to listen through it to the music. There's so much great music, both recent and in the distant past, where the engineer had no clue.

    I like the Dixie Chicks, but whoever is in the studio with them just kills Natalie Maines voice. She sounds so harsh and screechie on all her albums except the first one.

    And yet Joan Baez' "Diamonds and Rust", recorded in 1974, sounds spectacular. Very clean.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited October 2011
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    A little lower Fi is not a bad thing, sometimes. There isn't much that sounds bad with a set of peerless Monitors or ADS L520s and an old vintage classic, like an HK 730. YMMV

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,787
    edited October 2011
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    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Makes me want to sell my stereo and listen to a boombox...

    Then I throw in Millage Gilbert and its like stepping into another dimension...

    Unfortunately my electronics are revealing every freaking god darned thing wrong with some of my recordings in my collection that even on bad speakers bad recordings sound bad... thats not how its supposed to work!

    I guess I need a brand new rig from top to bottom with just bare bones basic so I can listen to crap.

    Many times over the years I had the same thought about getting a boom box and calling it a day. Eventually I managed to put together a rig that excels with great recordings yet makes bad ones sound pretty damn good. Don't give up, you'll get there one day.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,027
    edited October 2011
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    There were some pretty nice boomboxes. Remember those JVCs that were about the size of a ranch style home's closets?
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  • decal
    decal Posts: 3,205
    edited October 2011
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    boombox2.jpg

    Now here's a bad **** boom box!!!!!
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,313
    edited October 2011
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    Chicago 2nd lP or cd just called Chicago is one of them like that for me. I love the music on it but the recording is horrible.
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,311
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    Can you even play Millage Gilbert anymore on your system? I thought I heard you say that he isn't available on Tidal....?

    On a different note, did you guys know that he passed away this year? (Not Trey, obviously) He apparently left us on Sunday, January 16th at 2:50am.

    RIP, Mr. Gilbert and thanks for your great contributions to music.

    I think I'm gonna spin some Millage tonight.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
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    Wharfedale’s are usually rather forgiving also. Agree about the a/d/s and Polk mentioned.

    Often soft-dome tweets and paper/polyprop drivers bring the forgiveness.
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,020
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    man I miss this CD!!! Yes!! NOT AVAILABLE ON TIDAL!!!

    Sad to hear he passed, RIP Mr Gilbert
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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