Kef r 3 and svs ultra 16 vs stock Polk sda srs

Which would sound better?

Comments

  • rebelsoul
    rebelsoul Posts: 273
    edited July 9
    My other stuff carver c-19 modded
    Ps audio perfect wave dac with bridge 2
    Krell ksa 250
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 9,820
    For what kind of music?
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 3,185
    Original SDA-SRS with the old "dead fish eye" tweeters?

    No contest, go with KEF R3. Don't necessarily need something as big as an Ultra 16, whether sealed or ported, for music listening. I guess that may depend on the music though. I'd prefer dual smaller and faster sealed subwoofers.
    1. Polk L800 + L900, L400, LSiM-703 x4; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz AV8805A processor; Parasound A31; Outlaw 7000X; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Director 4.7; MIT S2 cables
    2. Magnepan 1.7i or JM Lab 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 SE+ preamp and Parasound JC5 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Marantz SA8004 SACD; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio P500; MIT S1 Cables
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,114
    edited July 10
    rebelsoul wrote: »
    Which would sound better?

    Neither. Modify the SRS and you've got the winner.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 4,567
    I have the KEF R3's mated with dual KEF Kube 8 subs (sealed). The combo literally will melt you like butter in your listening chair! Endless hours of pure musical bliss.

    I haven't heard the Polk's so I can't offer an opinion on them.

    Truth be told though I've never been a fan of having to mod something to get it to sound good. You would think the manuf. would get it to sound good right from the beginning without having to mess with it.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
    Two Channel:
    KEF R3 monitors
    Consonance Opera R 50 tube pre
    Liberty Audio B2B 100 amp
    Bluesound NODE 2i streamer
    Border Patrol SEi DAC
    Oppo BDP-93
    KEF Kube 8b sub (dual)

    Home Theater:
    Full blown 11.2 set up.


  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 670
    Truth be told though I've never been a fan of having to mod something to get it to sound good. You would think the manuf. would get it to sound good right from the beginning without having to mess with it.


    Even the most expensive speakers people mod and they say they sound better. I doubt any manufacturers are using the duelund silver cast capacitors, so there is always room for improvement no matter what you purchase.
  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 4,567
    You're simply altering the sound... for better or worse is strictly one's opinion based on their hearing.
    I'm sure the duelund caps are nice but maybe did'n fit the manuf sonic signature they were looking for & were hence left out. Maybe those caps weren't even considered by the manuf.
    I'm sure all the money they spend on R&D, development etc is how they arrive at the finished product & the sonic character they were trying to achieve
    I definitely know guys like to tweak & mod & are usually happy with the end result but not always.
    This is why this is such a great hobby, there is no right or wrong... whatever sounds good to you is all that matters.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
    Two Channel:
    KEF R3 monitors
    Consonance Opera R 50 tube pre
    Liberty Audio B2B 100 amp
    Bluesound NODE 2i streamer
    Border Patrol SEi DAC
    Oppo BDP-93
    KEF Kube 8b sub (dual)

    Home Theater:
    Full blown 11.2 set up.


  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,114
    Truth be told though I've never been a fan of having to mod something to get it to sound good. You would think the manuf. would get it to sound good right from the beginning without having to mess with it.
    KEF has tweaked their Uni-Q 12 times to get it to sound good. You would think the manuf. would get it to sound good right from the beginning.

    The -3dB is only 58Hz!?!

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 4,567
    That's not tweaking for heavens sake... that's called refinement! Something top notch companies excel at.
    Tweaking is something the novice audio junkies do for sheetz & giggles thinking their improving the sound. 🤠
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
    Two Channel:
    KEF R3 monitors
    Consonance Opera R 50 tube pre
    Liberty Audio B2B 100 amp
    Bluesound NODE 2i streamer
    Border Patrol SEi DAC
    Oppo BDP-93
    KEF Kube 8b sub (dual)

    Home Theater:
    Full blown 11.2 set up.


  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,114
    12 times is a lot of got it wrong the other 11....LOL
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 19,224
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,114
    Phil, I was unable to find a pic of the R3 crossovers. These are the crossovers in the previous R300 model, which likely isn't too different. A few air core and a few iron core inductors, basic ceramic resistors, a bunch of basic electrolytic caps with some encased in God knows what and why. All in all unimpressive components, but typical of a lot of speakers. Upgraded components would result in the typical benefits in clarity, soundstage, imaging and bass performance.

    3id74v90sfz1.jpg

    The #1 reason basic components are used is the cost. If KEF or other brands used better components the MSRP would be much higher.

    This is a good example. The standard Buchardt S400 uses mostly basic crossover components, but they do use Bennic caps. I found the sound, while ok for many, was a let down to me. The S400SE, in which every crossover component is of much higher quality, is world class. It also costs 1300 Euro more.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,272
    Sound is to personal so any replies is going to be a personal one. But I think a high quality bookshelf like the key mated with a high quality subwoofer like the SVS can outperform most floor standing speakers for a number of reasons.

    1- Most floor standing speakers can not reproduce the deep bass like a Subwoofer can.
    2- You can't place the Bass in the room as needed by frequency response of the room as you can with a Subwoofer.
    3- Most of the time, Where you place your Left and right speakers for stereo playback usually isn't the best place for Bass reproduction.

    So IF your room will allow even clean bass from the Stereo pair positions to your seat, then the Floor standing speaker has a good chance of rivaling a Subwoofer and Bookshelf setup.

    Another factor in reproducing sound in a room is the ability for the Floor standing speaker to have a good quality crossover section to blend the bass to the mid range and high end. Some floor standing speakers do this extremely well. Some not so well. This also applies to the Bookshelf speaker. Since they are limited in reproducing frequencies, some companies try to reproduce low bass where they should have rolled that off and the bookshelf speaker can sound very muddy. Floor standing speakers usually don't have this issue due to cabinet volume.

    With a Book shelf speaker , you get to place it in your stereo location and then with the subwoofer, place it in the room to get the best even natural bass response. In most cases this will always outperform a Floor standing speakers, not always for best sound quality, I think that's a personal opinion but for the ability to replay frequencies in the room more even because you have more control over it.

    For you I would listen to the SDA's and see if you like them over the way Kef Sounds. Kef Usually goes for a pretty even frequency response while the Polk's are tuned to the way the engineers felt they would sound best. Make no mistake , Kef engineer's also tune their speakers to the way they think they will sound best and they are not a perfect flat frequency response. I don't know if that's important to you but it is if you want to try and recreate sound as it was recorded and not how you would like it to be.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,272
    You're simply altering the sound... for better or worse is strictly one's opinion based on their hearing.
    I'm sure the duelund caps are nice but maybe did'n fit the manuf sonic signature they were looking for & were hence left out. Maybe those caps weren't even considered by the manuf.
    I'm sure all the money they spend on R&D, development etc is how they arrive at the finished product & the sonic character they were trying to achieve
    I definitely know guys like to tweak & mod & are usually happy with the end result but not always.
    This is why this is such a great hobby, there is no right or wrong... whatever sounds good to you is all that matters.


    I agree but also think modding is something fun exciting and personalizing a product to your taste. As you said, for better or worse can only be judged by whoever is listening. Some people feel the need to upgrade parts in speakers like the LSI15's woofer which many feel by upgrading that woofer, it overall improves the speakers response in the low end. I can't comment on that as I never upgraded mine when I had them but thought that was a good idea.

    I think each speaker isn't as good as it could possibly be due to marketing price points etc. Most speakers companies cut corners where they feel is right to put out a speaker that sounds as they want it to but they can sell it at the lowest possible price to move product. Then when we buy these speakers , love them for that they are ( which is why it was purchased in the first place ) but find a few things that IF they where improved , they would be on a whole new level.

    My goal when I buy speakers, is to love them for what they are. Not to bring them home, pick them apart and then modifying them. When I feel something needs improving, I prefer to buy different speakers.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,272
    F1nut wrote: »
    Truth be told though I've never been a fan of having to mod something to get it to sound good. You would think the manuf. would get it to sound good right from the beginning without having to mess with it.
    KEF has tweaked their Uni-Q 12 times to get it to sound good. You would think the manuf. would get it to sound good right from the beginning.

    The -3dB is only 58Hz!?!
    I think your right in one hand but I don't think your also considering that they also want to sell the New and Improved Model. Example is Paradigm speakers. They bring out new models of the same thing every few years. They bring out a new "Version" and call it the new and improved model. The Studio Monitor line has been "improved" over the years but yet they have won awards for being one of the best speakers in their class. So did they get it right many versions ago? Or did that older version need to be improved?
    I speak of Paradigm because many of my clients love their Paradigm speakers and don't like the newer versions. They like their Version 2 over the newer Version 3. So for them the new model isn't as good as the older Version.

    Sometimes don't fix what's not broken applies to speakers but that doesn't sell the new and exciting model.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 4,567
    F1nut wrote: »
    Phil, I was unable to find a pic of the R3 crossovers. These are the crossovers in the previous R300 model, which likely isn't too different. A few air core and a few iron core inductors, basic ceramic resistors, a bunch of basic electrolytic caps with some encased in God knows what and why. All in all unimpressive components, but typical of a lot of speakers. Upgraded components would result in the typical benefits in clarity, soundstage, imaging and bass performance.

    3id74v90sfz1.jpg

    The #1 reason basic components are used is the cost. If KEF or other brands used better components the MSRP would be much higher.

    This is a good example. The standard Buchardt S400 uses mostly basic crossover components, but they do use Bennic caps. I found the sound, while ok for many, was a let down to me. The S400SE, in which every crossover component is of much higher quality, is world class. It also costs 1300 Euro more.

    Hey Jesse,

    I totally understand your point of view in regards to parts used by the manuf in R&D of their products. There is always going to be newer, better, more costly parts that they can use but to me the bottom line is how the heck do they sound.

    I was smitten by the R3'S from the moment I first heard them. What parts they used inside never even crossed my mind. It was the glorious sounds that they conjiured up that sealed the deal for me.
    Can I mod or tweak them...sure thing but I'm a big believer I the old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

    The only mod I would consider would be to move up the KEF line to their Reference 1 stand mount. Now your talking some big bucks which I'm sure would include much more expensive innards along with cabinetry, drivers etc.

    But for now the R3's aren't going anywhere. 😊
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
    Two Channel:
    KEF R3 monitors
    Consonance Opera R 50 tube pre
    Liberty Audio B2B 100 amp
    Bluesound NODE 2i streamer
    Border Patrol SEi DAC
    Oppo BDP-93
    KEF Kube 8b sub (dual)

    Home Theater:
    Full blown 11.2 set up.


  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,114
    The Reference 1 crossover is a slight improvement in that it uses one, possibly two Clarity CMR caps. The rest is still basic.
    280a70q5sysa.jpeg

    The Blade crossover is a significant upgrade. A lot of Clarity caps, but they appear to be only the PX series. They use much higher quality inductors and everything is wired point to point, so that is commendable. Still using ceramic block resistors though. I also noted two electrolytic Bennic caps in the shunt, which I'm sure is due to the extremely large uF value.
    9bqulkazktl0.jpg


    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,674
    Looks like esa on the blade, which is the line below the mr

    Surprising they would use the Mr in the lower line but not in the blade, maybe a real estate issue
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,674
    I couldn't find a pic of the muon crossover but maybe for a quarter million they give you the good stuff? 😁
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,114
    VR3 wrote: »
    Looks like esa on the blade, which is the line below the mr

    Surprising they would use the Mr in the lower line but not in the blade, maybe a real estate issue

    I figured they were the PX as the ESA came with black sleeves on the leads, although I do now see two small value caps with black sleeves.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,674
    I heard the blade and the muon at a kef store in Singapore and in that space they did nothing right unfortunately... But they were far from optimal placement and such
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro