Better option for pairing with 2.3's

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Answers

  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 709
    invalid wrote: »
    The guy hasn't posted on here in almost a month.

    Might want to re-read the thread. I was responding to that Havacow dude...

    I see that now, sorry about that.
  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    Many of your suggestions are primarily focused on returning the 2.3s to a two-channel sound setup. These ideas are appreciated. However, I am running a 7.1 channel system and the 2.3s are the L/R speakers. They are well suited for this usage. Per your suggestions, I tried the 2.3s with the connecting cable, and with the 2.3 speaker planes aligned. This arrangement sucked out the sound from the center channel, and destroyed the front soundstage blend with the 2.3s. Also, the 2.3s seem to be fighting with each for attention, instead of working together. The character of the bass from the subs was strangely altered. It was a sonic disaster.

    SRS 2.3s can be used satisfactorily in a multi-channel system. It is better not to use the cable if these speakers are orientated towards the listening location. The 2.3s have their center axis intersecting just in front of the listening position. This arrangement provides an expansive sound stage with a seamless sound integration with the center speaker. In a multi-channel system, each channel’s distance delays are critical part of focusing the sound arrival time. This is tuning that 2-channel sub-less systems do not have to deal with. A multi-channel system when sonically focused in this manner is capable of creating a believable surround environment that my other 2-channel systems can only hint at.

    Not having heard the other members’ systems, I have no reason to doubt their positive evaluations their systems’ sound quality. Without hearing a setup similar to my system, why would other members not believe the positive results that I am hearing? What are the experiences of other members that have tried SDA speakers in “multi-channel systems”?
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,040
    edited February 27
    Did you set them up exactly as I described? If you did and the results were as you described, something is horribly wrong with the speakers and they need to be sorted out before anything else can be addressed.

    I run SDA-SRS 1.2TL's in a 7.1.2 ATMOS configuration, with the 1.2TL's set per Polk's recommendations. They are 42 inches from side walls, 7 feet center to center, and 4.5 inches from the back wall. The baffles are facing straight ahead with zero toe-in. The center image is so focused from just the two channels that I sometimes think my surround setup is on even though I am listening to a stereo recording without the HT stuff even turned on. I even get sounds that appear to come from my in-wall AB800's... just from the SDA's!

    What I suggested was that you strip the room down to nothing and set the SDA's up as Polk intended them to be. From there, set up the system and run it as a two channel until the 2.3's are dialed in and THEN set up the rest of your rig, and recalibrate your surround settings. Your bass will improve and you won't need a half a dozen gigantic subs in there to rattle the paint off your walls.

    Your 2.3's are in a very bad room for them, or there is something physically wrong with them, or you have no idea how to set them up and refuse to accept what I am telling you to do. If you lived local to me, I would offer to help in person, or invite you to my place so you could hear and FEEL what I am talking about.

    Bottom line is there is something very wrong with your setup, but if you think it works, so be it.


    Rock on!
    Post edited by nooshinjohn on
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,264
    edited February 27
    I tried the 2.3s with the connecting cable, and with the 2.3 speaker planes aligned. This arrangement sucked out the sound from the center channel, and destroyed the front soundstage blend with the 2.3s. Also, the 2.3s seem to be fighting with each for attention, instead of working together. The character of the bass from the subs was strangely altered. It was a sonic disaster.

    Something is seriously wrong with your speakers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    Hey John,

    This is just a visual observation. Is that a tiny center channel speaker between your 1.2s? It would seem to be underwhelming soundwise compared to the 1.2s capacities. My experience has been that increasing the capacity of the center channel to as full-range as possible enhances the front soundstage. Are those ambient speakers atop the 1.2s? What channel signals are they receiving? I thought about doing something like that as my Denon AVR has front height channels. I can understand your space limitations however. We all have the issue of working within the confines of our listening rooms.

    I've previously owned Quad, KLH9, Magnapan Typani III, Infinity Servo Static I, Acoustat, Infinity Reference speakers. Each one was a good learning experience. I wished that I would have heard an improvement with the SDA cable, but even without it, my 2.3 anchored system is by far the best and most powerful sounding speaker system I have ever owned. The 2.3s replaced RTA12Cs in the L/R positions. The 2.3s effortless authority made my very musical RTA12Cs sound rather petite.

    As for my A/V room, the existing windows, door openings, and fireplace location dictate where equipment and seating can be placed. As it is, the least compromised front stage room-location has windows and doors directly behind it.

    Let me know when you're in sunny California :)

    Bill
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,040
    edited February 28
    I live in Los Angeles... With the 1.2 TL's dialed in properly, I find the center channel just needs to provide a bit of focus for dialog. With them set up the way I do, I just don't need a large center. I don't have space limitations, as the room was laid out to allow for the big Polks to have the proper space to do their thing.


    My system is 85 percent music and 15 percent HT anyway...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    Movie sound can be quite dramatic, but I too prefer listening to musical performances. There is the perception fostered by many speaker manufactures that center channel speakers do not need to be large. Just look at their limited center speaker offerings. This is far from being sonically idea. Granted, space considerations limit many systems to having small center speakers. Matching L/C/R speakers would provide the best tonal balance.

    The quantity of multi-channel sound directed to the center channel varies greatly depending on the mixing engineer's preferences, and sound goals. James Taylor's Pullover DVD pulls James vocals primarily into the center channel with the backup singers more so to the L/R channels. A center channel should not be treated just as an accent. A center channel not balanced for level output across the L/C/R speakers would seriously recess James voice and his guitar. At the other extreme, there are musical performances where I would swear that the center is working overtime, yet an ear to the center shows no volume whatsoever! Just a great phantom image created through the L/R speakers. I now make no assumptions as to what is, or isn't coming through the center channel. Having a center speaker that can do it's fair share insures that the sound engineer's intentions are met.

    A visit to each others' systems may prove to be mutually instructive. My listening experiences are of course limited in scope. One can assume that the world is flat until a more distant horizon is in sight. I live in the City of Orange.
  • Navy_Goat
    Navy_Goat Posts: 264
    I think I would enjoy witnessing your meeting in both places, but I am no longer in Socal. I look forward to seeing the results, of you ever do get together.
    SDA-2B: TL mod, gimpod boards, sonicap, mills, Erse inductor matched by westmassguy, Cabs sealed, h-nuts, dynamat, BH5 & SDA-1C: gimpod boards, sonicap, mills, Cabs sealed, h-nuts, dynamat, BH5
    Technics sl-1710/sony ubp-800>Marantz NR-1509>parasound HCA-1500a

    SDA SRS 2.3tl: gimpod boards, sonicap, mills, Erse inductor matched by westmassguy, Cabs sealed, h-nuts, dynamat, BH5
    Yamaha WXC-50>Crown XLS-2002

    Zu Audio Omen Dirty Weekend mkII w/Jupiter cap & Polk Audio L200 (coming soon)
    Marantz ND8006/Technics SL-QD33>Anthem Pre-1L>Adcom GFA-535
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,040
    edited February 28
    I am in Woodland Hills near Calabasas. I don't do DVD-a... It is either a movie in full surround, or two channel. Multi-channel audio sounds weird to me on properly set up SDA's because they already accomplish a massive soundstage that is interfered with in un-natural ways with the addition of additional channels.

    Again, just my opinion.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    So, we are a good 2-hours away from each other, ha, ha!

    Consider this. I know that there are many 2-channel purists. I miss the simplicity of setting up a 2-channel speaker system. But, the sounds of the real world is not that of two channels. Sound and music can radiate and reflect from any direction in real life. Multi-channel sound strides to provide the illusion of a 360 degree experience. If your music sounds better in 2-channel mode, that only means that you may not have optimized your system for a surround "music" experience.

    The proper way to setup a multi-channel system is with music, and not movies. The best way to set the delays for individual channel is with recordings of live music performances which included audience sounds also. Movie sound is mostly designed for impact, it is far from real. It cannot be relied upon to properly setup multi-channel delays, or channel volume levels. But, movie soundtracks will be great once you have dial the system in for music. When this is properly done, the speakers can often vanish with good music source material. Incredibly, the front sound stage can seamlessly extend into the side surround speakers. Getting this sonic "focus" is extremely difficult. I have being working on it for years. Making the soundscape worst is a real concern. Reaching sonic perfection is impossible, but if one has a smile on ones face when listening, that is a good start!

    There are excellent multi-channel Blu-ray/DVD recordings by the likes of Michael Bolton, Celine Dion, Eric Clapton, Don Henley, The Eagles, Rod Stewart, and Elton John just to name a few. The Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray movie has an excellent music soundtrack.

    Most multi-channel processors offer formats to convert 2-channel sound into more channels. For CD music, I use these simulation modes by default as these settings can often expand the sound into the surround channels in a very pleasant manner. The stereo playback setting sounds very 2-dimensional in comparison to my ears.

    It is disappointing that I know of so few audiophiles locally to trade experiences with.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,040
    You are welcome to come by any time. You will hear what properly set up and powered SDA's are capable of. My two speakers will have you believing you are front and center for any live recording you care to play, from a single performer in a small club, all the way up to AC/DC live at Donnington. Even sitting in with John and Paul during a "Toot and a Snore"...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    edited March 1
    Here is my phone contact. We can discuss a visit either way if you are interested. I have traveled as far as Las Vegas to pickup speakers, ha, ha!
    Bill .
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,173
    HavaCow wrote: »
    Here is my phone contact. We can discuss a visit either way if you are interested. I have traveled as far as Las Vegas to pickup speakers, ha, ha!
    Bill

    If you have time edit out your phone number and send it via PM

  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    I'm new at this. Can't take back the above post? What is PM?
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 19,450
    edited March 1
    Private or personal message. PM

    Never put that info on public forums or address, email etc.
    I reported the info to be removed.
  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    So, how do forum members safely contact each other?
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 9,926
    edited March 1
    Mouse up to the upper right hand side and click on the envelope icon:

    rgxxq1njqz0k.png

    Then click on New Message.
  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,173
    HavaCow wrote: »
    So, how do forum members safely contact each other?

    Yell out the window or smoke signals
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 9,926
    Yell out the window or smoke signals

    That only works for @BlueFox