Better option for pairing with 2.3's

Currently, I have an opportunity to pick up a pair of Monitor 2's or RTA 15TL's for rear surrounds. They are within 2 hrs drive time and are priced the same. Which would pair better with a set of 2.3's and a CS 350 center channel in a 5.2 setup? They are both being offered by original owners and do not look to be modified yet. What benefits would the Monitors have as surrounds, as they are SDA's? FYI, currently using Signature S60's for the rear & have 2 HTS 12's for the subs.
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Answers

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 19,448
    Monitor 2's ????? Do not know what a monitor 2 is but I will say that the RTA 15 needs to be out away from the back wall a good bit. They need space around them to sound good

  • PFL89
    PFL89 Posts: 22
    Sorry, they are Monitor Series 2 Monitor 12's. Here is a copy of the identification tag.


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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 19,448
    Picture of front no grills
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 19,448
    Ok just what I had thought. I've not heard those. The consensus here is boomy and muddy bass.

    What would you be driving all these with?
  • PFL89
    PFL89 Posts: 22
    Using a Yamaha AVR, RX-A2080....
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 19,448
    Uufffhhh you're going to need a bigger power plant for all those big speakers.
    If you have the room and space from wall boundaries then RTA 15 would be my suggestion.
    What benefits would the Monitors have as surrounds, as they are SDA's?

    Those monitor 12 are NOT SDA.

    I've heard folks make mention that the 12 was polk's attempt at the Cerwin Vega crowd.
  • PFL89
    PFL89 Posts: 22
    That's the way I was leaning to as well, just wanted some opinions on the 12's.....
    How far away from walls do the RTA's need to be?
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 19,448
    2-3 feet possibly, that rear passive needs room.
  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    I too have SDA SRS2.3s. They were a big sonic upgrade from my RTA12Cs, and took their places in my main system in the L/R positions. The sound system is in a 7.1 configuration. I felt that my A/V room (16x19x9 ft.) is too small to allow adequate dispersion for any Polk floor mounted speakers including the RTA12Cs. My solution was to use DCM Time Windows. They were never designed as point source speakers with their dual angled face drivers, but offer a nice diffused sound spread ideal for surround applications. Their tonal characteristics blend very well with the 2.3, or most other Polk speakers for that matter. They have a small footprint and sound fine when located close to a back wall. Their cylindrical shape allows easy rotation for pointing to the desired listening position. Raise them up a couple of feet above the floor for better dispersion. They can be used full-range without fear of damage as they have more bass capacity than typical wall mounted surround speakers. p9s1f1mbl4f5.jpg
  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    I am always open to improvement ideas :) Please comment. One cannot appreciate the view from the top of the mountain, if one only traveled through the valleys, ha, ha!
  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 1,664
    edited February 10
    Ok then I'll go first.........get rid of the toe in................Next fellow's turn......
  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,133
    You will get better results with a single center channel speaker.
  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    Some toe-in background: My goal was to optimist the listening experience across the couch for three persons while still giving priority to the center location. With less toe-in, the end listening positions received too much sound from the speaker on that side.
    The current toe-in intersects a couple of feet in front of the prime listening position. This widens the sweet spot (even for the center position), and lessens any on-axis beaming (if there was any?). I can try lessening the toe-in to ear if this would still accommodate the multi-listener goals. Also, the 2.3s have migrated gradually to the sides which seems to widen the soundstage :p
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,040
    edited February 10
    If your goal is to "optimize the listening experience", you need to take that hot mess apart and start over, following the setup instructions for the SDA-SRS 2.3's...The best placement to address the concerns you have, is to place them on a long wall, with at least three feet from the side walls and 5 feet minimum from center to center of each speaker. They should be about 6 inches from the back wall.

    I have the 1.2TL in a 2ch/HT setup and mine are 42 inches from side walls, 7 feet center to center, and 4.5 inches from the back wall. I get no beaming of sound, a huge soundstage, and off-axis listening is amazing at any point in the room.

    In order to fix issues in your listening space, I would completely eliminate all speakers from the system, and dial in the SDA's the way Polk intended, then expand as needed. For most of my listening, the SDA's, when properly set up and powered, will have you believing your surround rig is working, even if you never turned it on. Center imaging from just my SDA's is so good, I think sound is coming from my center channel even though it is turned off.

    You will also find that you either won't need or can use fewer subs, because your bass response from the SDA's will be night and day better than what they are currently capable of given how you set them up. You can then sell them off to fund a major upgrade to your amplification for the mains, which will again take your enjoyment to new levels.

    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    I agree that a properly designed single center could be more optimized for elimination of lobbing, phasing cancellation, and may provide better sound focus. I have not noticed any sonic issues with the paired arrangements. Vocals are pleasantly focused to my ears. I am continually surprised at how much full-range sound is programmed into the center channel.

    I wonder if others have tried paired center speakers? It is a no cost experiment if one has some appropriate sized speakers to play with. Why not try it and decide for yourself? Also, adding a dedicated sub to the center channel will be worthwhile.
  • MrBigBlueLight
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  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    Hello nooshinjohn, I truly appreciate your input as it shows potential that I have not put into practice yet. I agree that the 2.3s bass output in my room is disappointing. Now I know why. Your level of dedication (and budget) to audio is FAR above mine.

    Having come from the 2-channel background, I enjoy the 7.1 channel expanded soundscape that my current set-up provides. Atlast, the room size and functional needs are limitations I must work within.

    Fewer but better subs would be great. But, a big concern is will it be a costly sideways endeavor? I got hooked onto these dual-woofer 12-inch DCM Sub2 at Circuity City. "Go ahead and try one. What have you got to lose?" Well, it turned on that two sounded better that one, and so on, ha, ha! Still, isn't it all about moving air? Ten 12-inch woofer cones don't need to move much to provide decent bass. Could a couple of better quality Hsu VTF-3 mk3 put-out enough vs. the glacier sized DCM Sub2 array?
  • Toe in has been known to work with SDA's.
    Howevah
    No more than an inch and only in certain situations.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,040
    edited February 10
    HavaCow wrote: »
    Hello nooshinjohn, I truly appreciate your input as it shows potential that I have not put into practice yet. I agree that the 2.3s bass output in my room is disappointing. Now I know why. Your level of dedication (and budget) to audio is FAR above mine.

    Budget has zero to do with it. Fixing the position of your SDA's costs nothing. Even if your space is less than ideal for them, getting them as close as is possible will help quite a bit. As far as subs go, in that space you really shouldn't need them. Sell the subs and get a somewhat robust two channel amp to power the 2.3's properly and you will be shocked by just how much better everything sounds.

    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    O.K. Guys, I will try the 2.3s with limited toe-in and with the SDA cable. I hope it will be long enough to reach. BTW, a Parasound 2205 is powering the 2.3s and three other channels. I have a 260w Yamaha M85 laying around. Would it provide any sonic improvements to the 2.3s?
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 11,885
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • BlueBirdMusic
    BlueBirdMusic Registered User Posts: 1,561
    I was wondering if you had the SDA interconnect cable in place.

    They are not really SDA speakers without it.
    You Can't Resist Propaganda if You Can't Recognize It
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  • HavaCow
    HavaCow Posts: 16
    It would be a MAJOR endeavor relocate everything to get the 2.3s closer to the back wall. Thinking about it....

    For now, will rotate the SDAs to a flat plane, and connect the interconnect cable. It is just long enough to reach. The current triangle distances are 10'-6" between the speaker centers and 9 feet from each speaker to the center listening location. This will put the speakers just laterally outboard of the three couch positions. With the SDAs set to the same plane, I am concerned that the tweeter output will be greatly diminished at the center seat due to being so off-centered from speaker axis, and that the two outboard listening locations will be too localized on each side. Will give it a try! The couch is located to even out the bass room nodes, but that may change with the relocation of any speaker.

    Thanks to everyone for their input!
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,355
    I was wondering if you had the SDA interconnect cable in place.

    They are not really SDA speakers without it.

    Was thinking the same thing. Could be an optics thing, or that cable is the hide and go seek champ of the year.
    HT SYSTEM-
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    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,040
    edited February 11
    HavaCow wrote: »
    It would be a MAJOR endeavor relocate everything to get the 2.3s closer to the back wall. Thinking about it....

    For now, will rotate the SDAs to a flat plane, and connect the interconnect cable. It is just long enough to reach. The current triangle distances are 10'-6" between the speaker centers and 9 feet from each speaker to the center listening location. This will put the speakers just laterally outboard of the three couch positions. With the SDAs set to the same plane, I am concerned that the tweeter output will be greatly diminished at the center seat due to being so off-centered from speaker axis, and that the two outboard listening locations will be too localized on each side. Will give it a try! The couch is located to even out the bass room nodes, but that may change with the relocation of any speaker.

    Thanks to everyone for their input!

    Clear the room out completely. Set the speakers according to Polk's recommendations. You will find the subs have become redundant and not needed. This will free up a huge amount of space, and likely eliminate the room nodes you describe. Once you have things set up correctly, then you can figure out what to do next. Until those 2.3's are happy, everything you do in there is only trying to compensate for not doing things right to start with.

    c4loq7q2fvip.jpeg
    Post edited by nooshinjohn on
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 709
    The guy hasn't posted on here in almost a month.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 23,040
    invalid wrote: »
    The guy hasn't posted on here in almost a month.

    Might want to re-read the thread. I was responding to that Havacow dude...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”