Better option for pairing with 2.3's

PFL89

Currently, I have an opportunity to pick up a pair of Monitor 2's or RTA 15TL's for rear surrounds. They are within 2 hrs drive time and are priced the same. Which would pair better with a set of 2.3's and a CS 350 center channel in a 5.2 setup? They are both being offered by original owners and do not look to be modified yet. What benefits would the Monitors have as surrounds, as they are SDA's? FYI, currently using Signature S60's for the rear & have 2 HTS 12's for the subs.

pitdogg2

Monitor 2's ????? Do not know what a monitor 2 is but I will say that the RTA 15 needs to be out away from the back wall a good bit. They need space around them to sound good

PFL89

Sorry, they are Monitor Series 2 Monitor 12's. Here is a copy of the identification tag.

pitdogg2

Picture of front no grills

PFL89

pitdogg2

Ok just what I had thought. I've not heard those. The consensus here is boomy and muddy bass.

What would you be driving all these with?

PFL89

Using a Yamaha AVR, RX-A2080....

pitdogg2

Uufffhhh you're going to need a bigger power plant for all those big speakers.
If you have the room and space from wall boundaries then RTA 15 would be my suggestion.

What benefits would the Monitors have as surrounds, as they are SDA's?

Those monitor 12 are NOT SDA.

I've heard folks make mention that the 12 was polk's attempt at the Cerwin Vega crowd.

PFL89

That's the way I was leaning to as well, just wanted some opinions on the 12's.....
How far away from walls do the RTA's need to be?

pitdogg2

2-3 feet possibly, that rear passive needs room.

HavaCow

I too have SDA SRS2.3s. They were a big sonic upgrade from my RTA12Cs, and took their places in my main system in the L/R positions. The sound system is in a 7.1 configuration. I felt that my A/V room (16x19x9 ft.) is too small to allow adequate dispersion for any Polk floor mounted speakers including the RTA12Cs. My solution was to use DCM Time Windows. They were never designed as point source speakers with their dual angled face drivers, but offer a nice diffused sound spread ideal for surround applications. Their tonal characteristics blend very well with the 2.3, or most other Polk speakers for that matter. They have a small footprint and sound fine when located close to a back wall. Their cylindrical shape allows easy rotation for pointing to the desired listening position. Raise them up a couple of feet above the floor for better dispersion. They can be used full-range without fear of damage as they have more bass capacity than typical wall mounted surround speakers.

HavaCow

If you decide to further improve the center channel sound quality (who wouldn't want to do that, ha, ha!), this could be the next logical step. Use 7Cs or 10Bs as paired center speakers. A pair of large bookshelf speakers costs way less than a mega-gonoz full-range center speaker. Connect them in series to the center amp channel. Both of these models have identical driver types as those in the 2.3s. Run them full-range. Do add a dedicated subwoofer to the center channel. Run LFE to all channels. You will be surprised what can come out of the center channel, and the extra bass dynamics that energizing all of the woofers in the system can reveal! Also, Dynaco A25 and A50s make great center pairs that mate well with the vintage Polk sound. The A50s are perhaps the ultimate center for the 2.3s. They are currently in the system.
For all of these choices, there should be improvements of scale, voicing, body, and textural rendering over that of most specifically designed limited bandwidth center speakers. With properly matched speakers and proper time alignment, the speakers can disappear leaving a very believable spatially expansive soundstage. Also, with side surrounds, L/R sounds can expand even further in width. If you are running a 5.1 system, try moving the surrounds to the sides. It may lessen the sonic gap that a 7.1 system better addresses. There is now a 9.1 configuration with additional L/R width channels. There is not enough space to accommodate this advancement in my room.....

DaveHo

There are so many things wrong with that front soundstage I don't know where to start.

HavaCow

I am always open to improvement ideas Please comment. One cannot appreciate the view from the top of the mountain, if one only traveled through the valleys, ha, ha!

motorstereo

Ok then I'll go first.........get rid of the toe in................Next fellow's turn......

DaveHo

You will get better results with a single center channel speaker.

HavaCow

Some toe-in background: My goal was to optimist the listening experience across the couch for three persons while still giving priority to the center location. With less toe-in, the end listening positions received too much sound from the speaker on that side.
The current toe-in intersects a couple of feet in front of the prime listening position. This widens the sweet spot (even for the center position), and lessens any on-axis beaming (if there was any?). I can try lessening the toe-in to ear if this would still accommodate the multi-listener goals. Also, the 2.3s have migrated gradually to the sides which seems to widen the soundstage

nooshinjohn

If your goal is to "optimize the listening experience", you need to take that hot mess apart and start over, following the setup instructions for the SDA-SRS 2.3's...The best placement to address the concerns you have, is to place them on a long wall, with at least three feet from the side walls and 5 feet minimum from center to center of each speaker. They should be about 6 inches from the back wall.

I have the 1.2TL in a 2ch/HT setup and mine are 42 inches from side walls, 7 feet center to center, and 4.5 inches from the back wall. I get no beaming of sound, a huge soundstage, and off-axis listening is amazing at any point in the room.

In order to fix issues in your listening space, I would completely eliminate all speakers from the system, and dial in the SDA's the way Polk intended, then expand as needed. For most of my listening, the SDA's, when properly set up and powered, will have you believing your surround rig is working, even if you never turned it on. Center imaging from just my SDA's is so good, I think sound is coming from my center channel even though it is turned off.

You will also find that you either won't need or can use fewer subs, because your bass response from the SDA's will be night and day better than what they are currently capable of given how you set them up. You can then sell them off to fund a major upgrade to your amplification for the mains, which will again take your enjoyment to new levels.

HavaCow

I agree that a properly designed single center could be more optimized for elimination of lobbing, phasing cancellation, and may provide better sound focus. I have not noticed any sonic issues with the paired arrangements. Vocals are pleasantly focused to my ears. I am continually surprised at how much full-range sound is programmed into the center channel.

I wonder if others have tried paired center speakers? It is a no cost experiment if one has some appropriate sized speakers to play with. Why not try it and decide for yourself? Also, adding a dedicated sub to the center channel will be worthwhile.

mrbigbluelight

. https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/193226/better-option-for-pairing-with-2-3s#inbox

HavaCow

Hello nooshinjohn, I truly appreciate your input as it shows potential that I have not put into practice yet. I agree that the 2.3s bass output in my room is disappointing. Now I know why. Your level of dedication (and budget) to audio is FAR above mine.

Having come from the 2-channel background, I enjoy the 7.1 channel expanded soundscape that my current set-up provides. Atlast, the room size and functional needs are limitations I must work within.

Fewer but better subs would be great. But, a big concern is will it be a costly sideways endeavor? I got hooked onto these dual-woofer 12-inch DCM Sub2 at Circuity City. "Go ahead and try one. What have you got to lose?" Well, it turned on that two sounded better that one, and so on, ha, ha! Still, isn't it all about moving air? Ten 12-inch woofer cones don't need to move much to provide decent bass. Could a couple of better quality Hsu VTF-3 mk3 put-out enough vs. the glacier sized DCM Sub2 array?

honestaquarian

Toe in has been known to work with SDA's.
Howevah
No more than an inch and only in certain situations.

nooshinjohn

HavaCow wrote: »

Hello nooshinjohn, I truly appreciate your input as it shows potential that I have not put into practice yet. I agree that the 2.3s bass output in my room is disappointing. Now I know why. Your level of dedication (and budget) to audio is FAR above mine.

Budget has zero to do with it. Fixing the position of your SDA's costs nothing. Even if your space is less than ideal for them, getting them as close as is possible will help quite a bit. As far as subs go, in that space you really shouldn't need them. Sell the subs and get a somewhat robust two channel amp to power the 2.3's properly and you will be shocked by just how much better everything sounds.

HavaCow

O.K. Guys, I will try the 2.3s with limited toe-in and with the SDA cable. I hope it will be long enough to reach. BTW, a Parasound 2205 is powering the 2.3s and three other channels. I have a 260w Yamaha M85 laying around. Would it provide any sonic improvements to the 2.3s?

txcoastal1

http://pdfstream.manualsonline.com/f/f3fc4f77-c978-4694-8a96-5ec6355db21a.pdf

BlueBirdMusic

I was wondering if you had the SDA interconnect cable in place.

They are not really SDA speakers without it.

HavaCow

It would be a MAJOR endeavor relocate everything to get the 2.3s closer to the back wall. Thinking about it....

For now, will rotate the SDAs to a flat plane, and connect the interconnect cable. It is just long enough to reach. The current triangle distances are 10'-6" between the speaker centers and 9 feet from each speaker to the center listening location. This will put the speakers just laterally outboard of the three couch positions. With the SDAs set to the same plane, I am concerned that the tweeter output will be greatly diminished at the center seat due to being so off-centered from speaker axis, and that the two outboard listening locations will be too localized on each side. Will give it a try! The couch is located to even out the bass room nodes, but that may change with the relocation of any speaker.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

tonyb

BlueBirdMusic wrote: »

I was wondering if you had the SDA interconnect cable in place.

They are not really SDA speakers without it.

Was thinking the same thing. Could be an optics thing, or that cable is the hide and go seek champ of the year.

nooshinjohn

HavaCow wrote: »

It would be a MAJOR endeavor relocate everything to get the 2.3s closer to the back wall. Thinking about it....

For now, will rotate the SDAs to a flat plane, and connect the interconnect cable. It is just long enough to reach. The current triangle distances are 10'-6" between the speaker centers and 9 feet from each speaker to the center listening location. This will put the speakers just laterally outboard of the three couch positions. With the SDAs set to the same plane, I am concerned that the tweeter output will be greatly diminished at the center seat due to being so off-centered from speaker axis, and that the two outboard listening locations will be too localized on each side. Will give it a try! The couch is located to even out the bass room nodes, but that may change with the relocation of any speaker.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

Clear the room out completely. Set the speakers according to Polk's recommendations. You will find the subs have become redundant and not needed. This will free up a huge amount of space, and likely eliminate the room nodes you describe. Once you have things set up correctly, then you can figure out what to do next. Until those 2.3's are happy, everything you do in there is only trying to compensate for not doing things right to start with.

invalid

The guy hasn't posted on here in almost a month.

nooshinjohn

invalid wrote: »

The guy hasn't posted on here in almost a month.

Might want to re-read the thread. I was responding to that Havacow dude...