SDA.....thoughts 10 years later
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TroyD
Posts: 13,077
So my **** has been parked in front of the 2.3tl’s for about 24 hrs.....
As I said, it’s been about 10 years since I’ve heard SDA....and I thought I’d share some initial thoughts....keeping in mind that they aren’t dialed in and the kit is just cobbled together. It’s not bad.... but it isn’t He-Man rig either.
I’d almost forgotten how seductive that SDA is.....in a big room, you are (preaching to the choir, I know) immersed in the soundstage. I remember the first time at Casa F1 hearing things coming at me from the sides, it is almost unnerving. That being said....I can also see why some folks never dug SDA. Sometimes the stage can be a bit unnaturally large...which I attribute to the recording process. Listening to Diana Krall, some of her more intimate stuff ( thinking of The Girl In the Other Room) seem a little larger than you would expect....at least through conventional speakers. I’m not saying it is bad... but it’s a thing.
My only other observation.....which is more likely more gear, setup related is female vocals, notably Eva Cassidy, seem a little darker and have a more nasal quality than I’m used to or remember.
Mind you, the SDA’s are still sitting on the gliders and the gear is not isolated etc etc....so there is a tad of bass definition loss and a hint fuzziness around the edges to be expected (and the Thiels excel in these areas) taking that into account, these are a joy to listen to. Open and airy treble. Guitars that sound and FEEL like guitars. PITCH PERFECT.
SCALE. Did, I mention that? Jesus, Joseph and George Grand! I’ve missed a speaker that can move that amount of air and get the transients and dynamics so right without missing a beat....while the Thiels are more than up to the task....the dig as deep and with world class resolution, they don’t have the scale of the big SDA’s
Anyway, a few quick thoughts.....while there are some things to nitpick (most of which can be remedied)....It feels darn good to be home.
BDT
As I said, it’s been about 10 years since I’ve heard SDA....and I thought I’d share some initial thoughts....keeping in mind that they aren’t dialed in and the kit is just cobbled together. It’s not bad.... but it isn’t He-Man rig either.
I’d almost forgotten how seductive that SDA is.....in a big room, you are (preaching to the choir, I know) immersed in the soundstage. I remember the first time at Casa F1 hearing things coming at me from the sides, it is almost unnerving. That being said....I can also see why some folks never dug SDA. Sometimes the stage can be a bit unnaturally large...which I attribute to the recording process. Listening to Diana Krall, some of her more intimate stuff ( thinking of The Girl In the Other Room) seem a little larger than you would expect....at least through conventional speakers. I’m not saying it is bad... but it’s a thing.
My only other observation.....which is more likely more gear, setup related is female vocals, notably Eva Cassidy, seem a little darker and have a more nasal quality than I’m used to or remember.
Mind you, the SDA’s are still sitting on the gliders and the gear is not isolated etc etc....so there is a tad of bass definition loss and a hint fuzziness around the edges to be expected (and the Thiels excel in these areas) taking that into account, these are a joy to listen to. Open and airy treble. Guitars that sound and FEEL like guitars. PITCH PERFECT.
SCALE. Did, I mention that? Jesus, Joseph and George Grand! I’ve missed a speaker that can move that amount of air and get the transients and dynamics so right without missing a beat....while the Thiels are more than up to the task....the dig as deep and with world class resolution, they don’t have the scale of the big SDA’s
Anyway, a few quick thoughts.....while there are some things to nitpick (most of which can be remedied)....It feels darn good to be home.
BDT
I plan for the future. - F1Nut
Comments
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Go big or go home eh. Lol enjoyHT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
It's a fad.
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I have found that a musical sub, dialed in just right, and volume level such that you cannot hear it or locate it in the room solidifies the bottom end, and improves the fidelity of everything else. I don't even know my REL is active, until I turn it off, but it does absolutely lock everything into laser-precise focus.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »I have found that a musical sub, dialed in just right, and volume level such that you cannot hear it or locate it in the room solidifies the bottom end, and improves the fidelity of everything else. I don't even know my REL is active, until I turn it off, but it does absolutely lock everything into laser-precise focus.
I totally agree with using a sub...it just add’s that something extra. -
I don't think a sub adds something extra I think it adds what's missing.nooshinjohn wrote: »I have found that a musical sub, dialed in just right, and volume level such that you cannot hear it or locate it in the room solidifies the bottom end, and improves the fidelity of everything else. I don't even know my REL is active, until I turn it off, but it does absolutely lock everything into laser-precise focus.
I totally agree with using a sub...it just add’s that something extra.
I don't think any musical reproduction sounds complete without a subwoofer or 2 in the room.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
There's just something about the older model speakers that speakers today just don't recreate.
Sounds like your having some fun over there with those big bad boys.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
24 hours in front of your SDA’s???
Dude get a life!😉😝 -
So, I’m not a ‘add a sub guy’.....in most cases I think they create more issues than they solve. Put this way, I’ve never heard a system where the sub blends seamlessly. I’ll take quality over quantity any day.
Now, in my living room, I’ve got a 5db boost at 30hz.....so adding a sub is less than desirable. Plus, most recorded music....not much down there anyway unless you are listening to pipe organs.
Again, not bagging on folks who add the sub...and I know it can be done well....expensive, but doable.....it’s just not my cup of tea.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
I have SDAs, just not the big boys. The sound stage is better for me if I pull them out from the back wall so they are slightly in front of the rig, but I then do lose some lower end. I'm considering a sub to help. Are any better suited to the SDAs than others?Yep, my name really is Bob.
Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub. -
What I’m going to say is probably heresy....but give me a speaker that images well, transparent, and throws a well defined sound stage over one that does those things less well but has greater bass output.
Simple fact is most recorded music doesn’t have a lot of information in the lower registers. Most HT subs are rated at greater than 30hz...but like hitting the old ‘loudness button’ on the boombox....boost the 40-50hz range a couple of db’s and you are tricked into thinking there is more bass than there is.
IMO, chase quality not quantity...
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
People have a natural tendency to assume that since this is what works for me, this is the way that I think, this is what I like, etc, etc. Everyone else is just like me OR SHOULD BE.
What works for one person’s room isn’t necessarily going to work in another person’s room. What works for one persons personal taste isn’t necessarily going to work for the next person’s personal taste.
Do not assume that just because this is working for you (or conversely isn’t working) then it WILL be the same for everyone else.
We are all different
My living room isn’t the same as everyone else’s living room
I WISH that I could fit some larger SDA’s like the 2.3’s or even the 1.2’s into my small space! As it stands now I’ve already gone way too far with my 3.1’s.
If augmenting your SDA’s with subs works for you and your room GREAT!
If it doesn’t GREAT!
We are not all the same. -
I have SDAs, just not the big boys. The sound stage is better for me if I pull them out from the back wall so they are slightly in front of the rig, but I then do lose some lower end. I'm considering a sub to help. Are any better suited to the SDAs than others?
I has a REL S/5 in the mix, and it blends so seamlessly that I forget its even in the room.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
"IMO, chase quality not quantity..."
Bring your SDA's, or any speaker here and put them in my space and they will suck. Why? Because I get a large variable dB dropout in the 25Hz to 40Hz range, regardless of speaker. I also listen to music that has 20Hz capable instruments, and even some dubstep and don't care what anyone thinks about that. I want to hear what is there, not just a hint when it isn't a hint.
There are ways to ensure you don't add more bass in the frequencies than you need. They have room software with burst tones to measure frequencies (steady tones load up, skew readings). Subs have adjustments, you can vary placement. Placement matters, even with subs. Talk about a challenge.
If you haven't heard a two channel system with a well integrated sub, you obviously have not been to the right places.
Njoy your SDA's!
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
Like you said, the devil is in the details....
Not saying that a sub can't be integrated well......it's just a difficult, tedious and expensive proposition.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Like you said, the devil is in the details....
Not saying that a sub can't be integrated well......it's just a difficult, tedious and expensive proposition.
BDT
The REL pairs in quickly, and only took a couple hours to tweak. It also allows two different settings, one for stereo, and the other for HT use.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
During this Covid-19 time I have not had any real time to listen my SDA's due to everyone being in the house all the time. My main rig is in a basement that is open to the rest of the house through a stairway. I bought a pair of KEF LS50's and a Musical Fidelity M2Si to pair with my old SqueezeBox Touch to listen in a room that is pretty isolated from the rest of the house. So I have been playing around with the LS50's and M2Si. They are a nice pair but I was running into issues about an hour and a half into my listening where the M2Si would go into some sort of protection mode by reducing the volume and blinking the the red mute LED. So I decided to move my Musical Fidelity A308 out of my main rig and use it with the LS50's. No issues now but it is probably over kill and so much for a little system to play around with in a bedroom sized room. I put the M2Si in my main rig last weekend and got a chance to listen for about 2 hours and it was fantastic. My SDA's are on a 33' foot long wall and I have a soundstage that extends to the sidewalls with pinpoint center imaging. Instruments located where the producer put them. Vocals with presence, grip and vertical placement. Truly a wall of sound. Probably one of my favorite time listening to music in a long time. I was afraid the little M2Si would not be able to deliver but it does. Sure there could have been some better bass control but it was great over all. So it hasn't been 10 years since I have listened to SDA's but it was a bit of time because I had them disassembled for some upgrades just prior to the Covid. SDA's are a great all around speaker IMHO and deliver some magic that "regular" speakers cannot.I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
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Hey now...
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So, as an update....I've added the MF A1008 out with the 2.3tl's. The midrange darkness that I was experiencing has vanished like a **** in a whirlwind.
Now I've got to get the laser replaced on my modded Sony SACD player and spike the 2.3tl's and I think I can call it a day!
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
the MF A1008So, as an update....I've added the MF A1008 out with the 2.3tl's. The midrange darkness that I was experiencing has vanished like a **** in a whirlwind.
Now I've got to get the laser replaced on my modded Sony SACD player and spike the 2.3tl's and I think I can call it a day!
BDT
What's that?? -
Musical Fidelity is a good bet.
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Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
What F1 said.
A beast. A musical beast.
It’s not the KW....but I’d hate to live on the difference.
HAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR!I plan for the future. - F1Nut -
OK now what's a KW?George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Crown D150 amp
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
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Ha! I actually did google the MF A1008 and found out that it was either a CD player or an Integrated with a built in DAC. Didn't care to give "KW" a go. But thanks.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Crown D150 amp
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
