Hum with balanced cables

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I recently got a set of balanced cables for my Parasound P5 to A23 interconnect. Speakers are SRS 2.3 with interconnect cable. I figured balanced should be quieter or better, or at least see if I hear a difference. When I first hooked them up, no matter what, or what length (one set was still coiled) I got a strong hum. I am guessing it was a ground loop. The switch was properly set to unbalanced on the A23. I tried lifting the ground, and disconnected the DC trigger. Nothing fixed it. Unbalanced cables had no hum compared to balanced. With unbslanced cables and the ground lifted, I get the least minor hum. I even borrowed a set of balanced cables and it was still there. I changed nothing that I know of and now everything is fine. Balanced cables have even less bare audible hum.

Any ideas for a cause, or something to look for or check?

Comments

  • sgmsmg
    sgmsmg Posts: 542
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    Was this with the cables I just sold you? Based on your description it happened with both sets and a different set you borrowed?
    Reading the end of your post indicates the current state is using balanced cables and the hum is gone/minimized?
    This seems very strange. Are you using balanced cables between Source>Pre-Amp>Amp?
    Have you tried all sets of cables again to see if the hum comes back?
    Maybe the balance/unbalanced switch on the A23 wasn't toggled fully?
    Let me know if you isolate it to one of the sets I sold you. I never had an issue with them but they were only used for my subwoofers.
    2 Channel
    Pre:Bryston BP173
    Amp:Bryston 14B3
    Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Reference
    Source: Oppo UDP-205, Bryston BDA-3, Bryston BDP-3, Bryston BCD-3, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
    Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 Speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 XLR, AQ Diamond USB/HDMI
    Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
    Display: Sony XBR65Z9F

    Home Theater
    Pre: Anthem AVM90/JBL SDP-55
    Amps: Parasound A31, A51x2
    Speakers: Polk LSiM 707 (FL/FR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), LSiM 703 (SL/SR/SBL/SBR), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
    Subwoofers: SVS SB16 x 4
    Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
    Cables: AQ Meteor/Rocket 88, AQ Niagara/Sky
    Power: Torus AVR20, Shunyata Denali, Shunyata Delta, Cullen, PangeaAC9SE Cables
    Display: Sony XBR85Z9G
  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 569
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    If you running balanced cable between balanced connections, then why would you say that you 'properly' set the amp end to unbalanced? Likely that bal/unbalanced switch would be doing the same as tying pin 3 to pin 1 of the XLR.

    Without a schematic, it's guessing but I would wonder if you had one leg of the balanced connected to ground (via that switch) causing really heavy load on the preamp output. Shorting an active output can blow it, cause very high distortion if it has enough output resistance built in to survive or cause various audio problems due to the pre's output stage trying to blow. Normally I wouldn't think a buzz/hum would be the description, but might show up that way.

    If Parasound does the XLR pin 3 right and doesn't share grounding between the chassis, then the ground lift should be able to be closed on the amp and both the pre and the amp share a hopefully common ground reference from the power ground. Using the same power source is important in most cases. Depending on other components hooked to the pre, things could change for grounding though so ungrounding the amp might be necessary (hence the ungrounding switch).

    Balance has a number of positives and should not be going in the direction of any kind of increased buzzing or hum.

    CJ

    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
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    When I bought my ModWright amplifier.. to go with my Modwright preamp.. I first hooked it up with some Acoustic ZEN balanced cables and it sounded so right B)

    then when I switched to RCA cables/Unbalance the hum was crazy.. using the same brand of cables/Acoustics ZEN's and with balanced it was so quiet it was scary :)

    This is the stuff about audio that can drive you crazy!

    good luck hope you can solve the problem!
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • pkquat
    pkquat Posts: 742
    edited March 2020
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    TY for the responses.

    Sorry for the goof and confusion in the original post. "The switch was properly set to balanced" is what it should have said.

    To be clear, I am using balanced cables and everything is now fine with any balanced cable or unbalanced cable, the balanced input switch or ground lift switch in either position.

    When I first hooked up any balaced cable, I got the hum. I flipped all the switches multiple times, both pre-amp and amp were powered on and off multiple times, and inputs were switched. Balanced yeilded hum, and unbalanced did not. Everything was powered off overnight. The next day when I tried balanced cables there was no hum per se. I tried to see if I could flip some switch to find a cause, but nothing caused any highly audible hum. I even laid coiled cable over one of the power cables. It has been fine for the past few days.

    I am curious what could cause it for future reference.
  • pkquat
    pkquat Posts: 742
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    I may have found the cause. I have two laptop power supplies. One is an older big brick, and the other is a newer smaller design. I brought the big brick out to power a work laptop. If my laptop is plugged into the big brick, and a haupage video converter is plugged into the laptop via usb, and both are on the same circuit as my audio gear strange things happen with balanced cables. If the haupage is on, I get modem like sounds. If the haupage is off, I get hum. If I use unbalanced cables there are no other sounds or hum. If I use the smaller PS, or the usb is not plugged in there are no sounds or hum.

    Crazy :grimace:
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
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    I never ever got a hum with any balanced cables in my entire life . By Design Balanced cables have the lowest noise floor compared to unbalanced. It is not physically possible for a un balanced cable to have a lower noise floor by design.
    You have noise in your power I feel. Something is injecting a EMI signal into your system. It's not the cables it's absolutely something else unless you purchased bad cables.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • pkquat
    pkquat Posts: 742
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    The cables are fine. I agree it is noise getting injected into the power... but under a weird combination of connections / conditions. I have no idea why it does not show up with unbalanced cables. All I can guess is some type of ground loop or ground noise related issue with the right combination of laptop connections. It was a mystery until I stumbled on it again.
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
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    Your next step is to get multiple dedicated AC circuits. One for the preamp, CDP, etc., and one for each amp. And don’t plug non-audio junk into an audio AC line.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.