Carver M-4.0t vs Carver TFM-4.0

I have both of these amps and both need repair, but I will only need one of them in working condition. Is one on these preferred over the other? I will be using them to power my SDA SRS. I am not concerned about the color of the amp. Sorry for the poor picture.

3nhanrnqbxtm.jpg

Comments

  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,412
    The 4.0t would be my preferred sound if I were in your shoes. FWIW

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 18,564
    edited March 2020
    Pretty always thought that they were the same amp but different color.
    Give Roland a call at

    http://www.carveraudiorepair.com/
  • BinKY188_5
    BinKY188_5 Posts: 104
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Pretty always thought that they were the same amp but different color.

    That's what I thought years ago when I purchased them. They seem to have the same specs. 375W at 8 ohms. After being here for a while, I was wondering if they were made to have different sound signatures?

  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,412
    IIRC, there is just one resistor on the output that is the difference between these two models.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • honestaquarian
    honestaquarian Posts: 2,973
    I used to think that the TFM-4.0 was a typo and not a real amp.
    Obviously in the pics one can see this is a real amp.
    It must be a later version of the M-4.0t
    Maybe kind of an in between the M series amps and the later TFM models?
    Maybe kinda like what Polk did when they introduced the SDA-1C, but the first versions looked just like the SDA-1B.
  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 556
    The first sign of similarity...

    Jx3cpO7.jpg

    Then the details....

    Lr9u1eS.jpg


    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
  • BinKY188_5
    BinKY188_5 Posts: 104
    That explains it. Thanks CJ.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,412
    Mark, I thought the difference between the regular models and the "t" designation was that resistor. It has been a long time since I had half of these models and knew off the top of my head but now my curiosity is eating at me.

    I had always thought/understood that the TFM42 with the radar looking front end, the M4.0t and the TFM-45 were all the same sonic signature and the TFM 45 was emulated to sound like the Carver Silver 7 tube amps.

    @BinKY188_5 please forgive me. Apparently my mind is getting forgetful with the particulars plus too much time has passed since I was knee deep into Carver gear. All I can confirm is I had 13 Carver SS amplifiers at one point and the 2 that had my preferred sonic signature was the M-500t and the M4.0t (I still have that one signed by Bob slated to go to my son when he is of age)

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • daddyjt
    daddyjt Posts: 1,433
    treitz3 wrote: »
    ...I had always thought/understood that the TFM42 with the radar looking front end, the M4.0t and the TFM-45 were all the same sonic signature and the TFM 45 was emulated to sound like the Carver Silver 7 tube amps...

    This is entirely true.

    The TFM 4.0 has a slightly higher collector value, as very few were produced. Sonically they will be similar.

    “Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
  • BinKY188_5
    BinKY188_5 Posts: 104
    In a different thread @nooshinjohn stated "It's the Carver, unless it is a TFM55 or better." Is the M4.0t/TFM 4.0 considered better? Which are the better Carver SS Amps?
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,412
    Lightstar gear and the Carver tube amps (6, 7, 9's). His newer tube amps are not slouches either.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 18,564
    BinKY188_5 wrote: »
    In a different thread @nooshinjohn stated "It's the Carver, unless it is a TFM55 or better." Is the M4.0t/TFM 4.0 considered better? Which are the better Carver SS Amps?

    The TFM 55 IIRC was after Bob was forced out of the Carver company.
    I do not think it is the same architecture as the M4.0, TFM 45/42/4.0 . That being said a few tech's can do a very good job of taking them to another level.
    Roland @ http://www.carveraudiorepair.com/

    Is one of them.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,412
    edited March 2020
    Roland comes highly recommended from anyone in the Carver circle, FWIW.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • BinKY188_5
    BinKY188_5 Posts: 104
    I have contacted Rolland. He offers some upgrades that I'm not sure about. I would ask you guys about them, but I know how you like to spend other peoples money. ;)
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 18,564
    edited March 2020
    BinKY188_5 wrote: »
    I have contacted Rolland. He offers some upgrades that I'm not sure about. I would ask you guys about them, but I know how you like to spend other peoples money. ;)

    Get everything Roland offers. He did mine and EVERYTHING he does is Bob Carver approved. Both my TFM25 and TFM45 were night and day better when he worked his magic. Pm me if you have questions
    I will be sending in my Carver C16 per amp here in a month or so to have it completed rebuilt top to bottom.
  • honestaquarian
    honestaquarian Posts: 2,973
    You had better keep that TFM-4.0 since it is such a rare beast that they only produced for a year or less.
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 3,317
    Rolland doesn't sell meaningless upgrades. Either they increase sonic clarity or reliability.
    Cambridge Audio 851N Streamer/DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • BinKY188_5
    BinKY188_5 Posts: 104
    How would the TFM-4.0 with Rolland's refresh/upgrades compare to a new Parasound NewClassic 2250v.2? Anyone have experience with this amp?
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 18,564
    Carver
    375 wpc @8 500wpc @ 4ohm

    Parasound
    275 wpc 8ohm 400 @4ohm the parasound will have more dampening than the Carver.
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