Ribbon/Electrostat Moisture Crackling

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Alton T
Alton T Posts: 73
edited March 2020 in Technical/Setup
Hello Guys.. :)
I was going post this at AudiKarma, because this is a POLK AUDIO FORUM, for Polk Audio Components.
And, this is about Ribbons.
But, is seems more cozy here. No disrespect to anyone.. o:)
So...

I had QUAD ESL-63s ( Electrostatic) in the 80's...
Now, I got the MARTIN LOGAN XL16, I experienced, what I think is the same moisture crackling that the QUADs had.
Only the left channel ribbons had crackling when first powered on.
At first, I thought it was a connection problem.
Then, I thought the rain (Rainy and windy)/moisture got to them..
Surely enough, the crackling stopped after/about 15 seconds..

I never saw, or, read anything about Martin Logan Ribbons having this happen.
I tried to do an Internet search. Nothing..
You guys think it was just moisture?

Thanks for viewing.
Alton T.

BTW,
Ken S. Thanks for that last post on the Downward firing Subs.. :)
dcnorgmvsbtd.jpg


Post edited by Alton T on
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,316
    edited March 2020
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    Hello, McInPolk and good afternoon to you. That's exactly what it sounds like. Moisture and electrostat's are a match that you never want to pair up.

    Now if it reappears after the initial crackling disappears, then you have to look at something else upstream of the tweeter.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
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    I've owned full range electrostatic speakers for a long time, decades, and have never heard crackling. I've owned Decca ribbon tweeters for many years as well and have never heard crackling, either. The only harm high humidity can cause with electrostatic speakers is if there is a fair amount of dust on the surface of the membrane and the higher humidity can cause the electrostatic field to dissipate and reduce the efficiency of the speakers. This is why I have always kept them covered when not in use. A good vacuuming of the front panel (not the rear panel) is recommended as well. Some people even wash them in the shower if there's lots of dust.
    I'm not sure what could cause the crackle in your ribbon tweeters, perhaps a damaged element? Ribbon tweeters are susceptible to being overdriven if the high pass filter point isn't high enough or steep enough (sounds like a Stones lyric).
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  • Alton T
    Alton T Posts: 73
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    Thank You Tom. :)
    It was the 2 days of hard rain and powerful winds.
    It is amazing how much volume of water can fall in a short time.
    We, in Hawaii, are so fortunate to not have this type of weather all the time.
    I can only feel the tragic turmoil that places like Florida experience.

    Thanks for the post..
    Alton T. :)



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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,316
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    @KennethSwauger - I have heard it a couple of times on Carver ribbons, once on a Sunfire folded ribbon tweeter and once on Quads. You did bring up a good point though I had forgotten about. Dust can be detrimental to them as well.

    Lord only hopes folks disconnected the speaker before showering with it. (LOL)

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Alton T
    Alton T Posts: 73
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    Hi Ken S. :)
    The crackling did stop within a short time.
    I was ( and still am) listening to the ML 16s now.
    The speakers are o.k.
    I will "crank them up" in a few hours. Still early here.

    Guys,
    It is kinda fun, to have these "Cyber" interactions/conversations in the morning.
    Like,we are hanging around the Coffee Room, talking about Stereo, before starting work. :)
    SOP ( Standard Operating Procedures for Guys) LOL :)
    I'm retired, only watch and take care of my Mother.
    Thank God for Hi Fi.. :)



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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
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    Good, I'm glad all's well again.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,556
    edited March 2020
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    I do agree with the dust as well. Although I've never owned a pair I do have experience with friends that did and have witnessed the dust arcing. To me it sounds like it goes away as the dust is burned off. Do you have pets? My buddy had a cat and the hair floating throughout the room was really attracted the those panels. He also kept them well covered when not in use. He went so far as to have an upholsterer make soft nylon covers with a velvet like interior to cover the panels.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
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    Those tweeters appear to be ML's variation on the Air Motion Transformer concept originally developed by Dr. Heil back in the 70's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Motion_Transformer
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  • Alton T
    Alton T Posts: 73
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    Hi Guys,
    I came in from the back, turned on the PreAmp, then Amp..
    Same crackling from the left.
    I count to 12. It stops.
    I just brought them into this front room. But then, the right side would do it too?

    Watching L.A. Angels. Just had a Honolulu "Flash Flood Warning" message on the T.V., so, there is a big rain coming soon. Rainy all night/morning.
    Bad day for AMTs.
    I do remember that HEIL AMTs. That was one of my choices in the 70's.
    That "Pinching Cherry" analogy got me wanting it..
    Listened to them along with BOSE 901s.
    I bought JBL Century L100s. Wish I still had them. :'(
    Thanks guys..
    Alton

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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,276
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    When I bought my apogee duetta 2 speakers they made a crackling sound when I first used them. The crackling sounded almost like a dirty volume pot, but went away after several seconds never to return. I'm not sure what caused it.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,316
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    Do you happen to have a moisture meter that can show you the percentage of humidity in the room?

    One like this >>> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stark-0-to-99-9-Humidity-Tester-Digital-Wood-Moisture-Meter-2-Pins-14013/311022733

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Alton T
    Alton T Posts: 73
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    Hi all,
    No moisture meter, but, I also wonder,
    if the dust contamination was, or was with the moisture, that was a contributing factor..Like you guys mentioned..
    This front "Living Room" is where the wind enters.
    So, your dust factor could/is also be a part.
    It has been unusually windy and rainy.
    The sun comes out and drys the road and walkways, so, I do believe the dust all gets everywhere.
    Hawaii is funny,. Drys fast with no clouds, then clouds roll in and rains. then dry again.
    And, I live next to the mountain. More rain fall.

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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,276
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    I just looked on the DIY forum and someone had the same crackling noise you are experiencing, looks like his problem was the resistors in the voltage dividor circuit.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,094
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    Place a dehumidifier in the room with the speakers. Problem solved
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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