Amp Shootout! B&K M200 Sonata vs Belles 350A Reference

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audioluvr
audioluvr Posts: 5,457
in 2 Channel Audio
Well I picked up a Belles 350 A Reference locally. While my monos were in for a refresh I had a Hafler XL600 and a DH 500 for loaners from Rolland at Hi-Tech Audio. He told me that the Hafler sound was his favorite. Well after a month with them, I have to admit I really liked how revealing the upper registers were. Unfortunately they were terribly lacking in bass and imaging.

Fast forward and after the monos broke in ( beautifully I might add) while enjoying the tunes and surfing Craigslist I came across the Belles 350A Reference. The nice gentleman was the original owner who just never used it since his office has the really nice system. I don't remember what it was but it cost more than my house. He said it maybe had 350 hours on it, had the original boxes, manual and looks new. Not even any dust as he keeps his stuff covered.

The 350A is the match to my Belles 21A so I was hoping for both visual and sonic synergy. Finally got it home today, hooked it up and letting it warm up.

First impression was it had that upper register brightness that I liked with the Hafler. I think a naturally bright speaker would be way too much for this amp. Lower registers and bass control was very nice maybe a little more detailed than the B&K' s. I also think the B&K 's are a little more pronounced in the mids. The B&K's imaging and width of field are a little better as well.

As for which I'd keep and which one will be passed on... Too early to tell!

g33reqkntgq2.jpg
Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • Gerres26
    Gerres26 Posts: 863
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    I’m looking forward to this comparison B) ive owned some B&K gear in the past and almost picked up a 350a myself a while back. Both brands made some exceptional gear.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,457
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    I heard the B&K ST202 which a friend has and my TV room has the AVR507 i think and neither came close to how the monos sound which surprised me. Right now I'm really digging the Belles amp though. It may be replacing the B&K's. I think the monos may do a little better with subwoofer registers. They would be superb driving the bottom end of bi-wired speakers or running subs. The top registers though are a little tame with soft domes like what's in the SDA's IMHO. I think a speaker with a ribbon or titanium tweeter would be ideal with the monos.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,457
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    Well sad news here. I had to pull my B&K mono's out of my stereo rack. After a couple A/B sessions I have to say the Belles is just an all around better amp. Tonight I have my stereo equipment analysis expert with me (my daughter) and she she really likes both the looks and the sound quality of the Belles. Some pics to follow of the guts.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,457
    edited February 2020
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    h3qssm0kg5rn.jpg

    Very clean on the inside. There is 54,000 uF of power cap storage per side. The transformer is HUGE! And finally there are surprisingly only two electrolytic caps per side other than the power caps. Everything else are poly and look to be easily upgradeable to a higher quality some day.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • gyosa
    gyosa Posts: 711
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    I was gonna say .....
    Where are the beer can caps ?

    Bk
    PS Audio S300 , Yamaha wxc-50 , Salk SuperCharged Songtowers , Kimber Kable 4TC, Sony 42” - BEDROOM

    B&K EX-442 ( it will go in my casket when I die ... ) , PS Audio 4.6 preamp ( old school , but it still jams on ... ) , Eversolo DMP-A6 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - POOL

    Parasound A21, Eversolo DMP-A8 , Kimber Kable 4vs , Ascend Acoustics ELX Ribbon Towers , Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - DEN , MAIN system

    Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - PATIO
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,457
    edited February 2020
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    Right! These are some super high grade, top secret Panasonic caps in the Belles! They're small but store almost twice the energy as the Panasonics in the B&K's.

    I wonder how long it will take for me to tear this thing apart and replacing these caps with Mundorf Supremes...

    Edit: Just found out that Power Modules still sells the 350A Reference, 21A and 22A by special order.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,457
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    vobni7iqhitt.jpg
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dhart86
    dhart86 Posts: 1,594
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    Yup...I thought you would like this amp :)
    Main Rig:
    Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


    Second Rig:
    Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


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  • TEAforONE
    TEAforONE Posts: 1,006
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    Belles amps have always intrigued me. A ton of positive reviews,and David Belles is located very close by. I was contemplating adding one more amp to the rotation. Something from Belles may do it.
    See my profile for list of gear.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,457
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    So for anyone following this fiasco I will update. After running the Belles for a while, my daughter and I did a day of A/B ing again. Seems now we both like the B&K's again! It just seemed like B&K's had a fuller sound, if that's even a thing. Also the soundstage that the B&K's throw is incredible.

    Like others here have told me on this forum, there's always a trade off somewhere. Pick the one that gives you the most enjoyment. We traded detail for soundstage.

    How many people here keep equipment in inventory just so they can rotate it back in every once in a while to get that "something new" urge out of the way?

    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TEAforONE
    TEAforONE Posts: 1,006
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    I definitely do that. I have 3 pairs of speakers I rotate. Graham Chartwell LS3/5's,Nola Boxer 2's,Hornshoppe Great Horned Heils. Amps,First Watt F5,a pair of Monarchy Audio SM70MKII's,and a little 10watt per channel tube amp. I also will pull out the Aric Audio Unlimited preamp once in a while,and replace it with a Promitheous Audio TVC passive. Of course different speaker cables,and interconnects get swapped in from time to time as well. It's a sickness.
    See my profile for list of gear.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,626
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    You can NEVER have too many amps, CD players, Speakers or cables....
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,493
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    audioluvr wrote: »
    Like others here have told me on this forum, there's always a trade off somewhere. Pick the one that gives you the most enjoyment. We traded detail for soundstage.

    How many people here keep equipment in inventory just so they can rotate it back in every once in a while to get that "something new" urge out of the way?

    I do this with gear. And chicks.

    Glad you still had the B&Ks, whew. Seller's remorse on those would have been rough.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,457
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    msg wrote: »
    I do this with gear. And chicks.

    Only audio gear doesn't stab you in the throat while you're sleeping when it finds out :D
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,493
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    LOL
    I disabled signatures.
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