The newest edition to the stable...

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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,648
    charley95 wrote: »
    Kex wrote: »
    Most people driving the modern higher end imports are usually leasing or trading in 3-5 years anyway.

    Bingo, and why is that ? Because once you have to start paying when these vehicles are out of warranty, you'll go broke.

    Except Lexus. A lexus is basically a higher end Toyota, but still carries that same dependability/longevity. I have had 3 so far, and my current 09 RX350 still drives and rides better than many new American cars, with 154k on the clock.

    In my view, the idea is to be able to keep a car long enough to not have a car payment. If your trading in every 3-4 years, you always have that 400-500 buck a month payment. Be nice to go another 5-8 years without one , no ? With a Lexus, you can do that with spending the least on maintenance. Audi-BMW-MB, not so much.

    Doesn't matter though, we all have our own goals and needs when it comes to cars. Buy and drive what ya like, life is short, go for it.
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  • KexKex Posts: 3,628
    Basically, any new vehicle has three lives, at least intially:
    1. First life as a new, leased vehicle, for 3-4 years. There will be no out of warranty repairs, if any.
    2. Second life as a CPO vehicle, with extended warranty, for another 3-5 years. There will be few, if any, out of warranty repairs.
    3. Finally, after those initial 6-8 years, the dealer doesn’t want to know anything about the vehicle, and it begins a new life with no warranty and where repairs are likely to be more frequent, but still cheaper than a new car payment, and there will still be more years with no repairs (other than scheduled maintenance) than not.

    The Lexus, MBZ, BMW, Acura, Audi new car warranties are very similar, so there are not many differences there regarding the expectation the manufacturer has for the longevity and reliability of their vehicle. The CPO warranty for Lexus and Acura adds another two years, unlimited mileage for Lexus, 100K for Acura. For MBZ, Audi and BMW, another year is standard with unlimited mileage, but an additional three years total can be added for a charge. Just based on these warranty conditions, it does not seem that reliability in the first 6-7 years or 100K miles is an issue with any of these brands. That has also been my experience.

    After 6-7 years and 100K miles, it’s a question of balancing the potential cost of repairs compared to a monthly payment. For these brands, that finance payment will be in the $750-1,000 range for a new vehicle, probably 500-750 for a CPO vehicle. That’s much more than any repairs I can even imagine over the span of one year of ownership, so at that point, my priorities would be whether or not the vehicle can perform without additional visits to the mechanic between scheduled annual services, and whether or not there is a likelihood that anyone might find themselves in need of assistance on the side of an L.A. freeway (not a safe place).

    In the case of MBZ, this has never been a concern, and has never occurred. I’m confident the same would be true of Lexus, Acura, Audi and BMW. Reliability is not a deciding factor for any purchase decision.
    Alea jacta est!
  • charley95charley95 Posts: 918
    I guess we need to agree to disagree. I don't agree on your opinion with MB,Audi, and BMW eqaul to Lexus & Acura. Repairs can run 4-5 figures for needless things failing prematurely as designed. Most people buy a car based on emotion anyway and don't do the proper research on a make. Reliability is my MAIN objective when purchasing a car.

    I've been an enthusiast and former mechanic for 40 years and follow cars as a hobby. I've had countless people approach me through the years on car purchase advice. I've learned that giving advice is wasted breath because people will buy what they want anyway. I've seen them get bit many times based on their emotional purchase. As I stated before, these new MB,Audi's & Bmw's are not the same reliable cars of yesteryear.

    Acura & Lexus has them beat hands down.
  • KexKex Posts: 3,628
    Yeah... I dunno charley. I’m speaking from ownership experience.

    I don’t care if MBZ, BMW or Audi are the most reliable cars out there, but there is certainly a reasonable expectation that that they will be reliable beyond even ten years or 100K miles. It’s certainly possible that Acura or Lexus are more reliable, but I don’t care if they are, because they are as boring as hell IMO... puffed up Accords and Camrys. If reliability is your main concern, then no, I would not suggest any of the German brands, but I look for other things, such as driving dynamics, Designo interiors... Acura on the outside have improved immensely since they finally abandoned the “beak” front. On the outside, I could certainly live with an Acura, but not Lexus. On the inside, both Acura & Lexus are plebeian IMO. They are worthy of a “prestige” edition of the Accord or Camry, but not worthy of a luxury car.

    There’s a reason they cost 10-20K less than the equivalent Audi, BMW or Mercedes-Benz. If the choice were between Lexus or Acura, I’d choose a fully optioned Accord V6.

    In any case, I favor independent mechanics specialized in the brand they maintain. For that reason, I will only ever buy BMW or Mercedes. There is no good independent mechanic for Lexus, Acura or Audi nearby. My independent mechanic charges me by the hour for what he does, at $105/hour. The dealers charge close to $200/hour, and the technicians are paid by the job, so they are actually incentivized to work fast, and find problems, not to do quality work. In this way, they can charge five hours for a particular job, but only take three hours to do that job. They rushed. They didn’t pay attention to detail.

    I’ve never once, in my lifetime, experienced a five figure repair on any vehicle. Even a 6 cylinder engine replacement for MBZ wouldn’t be five figures.
    Alea jacta est!
  • WillowWillow Posts: 9,742
    Luxury vehicles don't seem to be such luxury. Everyone and their dog has one. Well at least in my city. It seems luxury has become the norm. When I was young I remember thinking and being told that only rich people had luxury cars. But now I see tons of Audi, Lexus, BMW, Acura, Mercedes, Rovers, Jags, Volvo and Tesla
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  • KexKex Posts: 3,628
    This is definitely true. All of these brands, and others such as Jaguar, represent affordable luxury, the most affordable entry brands being Acura, Lexus and Volvo.

    True luxury starts with Porsche, Rolls-Royce, and other similar brands.
    Alea jacta est!
  • KexKex Posts: 3,628
    Also agree with John about the CPO MBZ vs. a Subaru. It’s a totally different experience, at the same price.

    Seen front that viewpoint, it’s the Subaru buyers who are making a bad choice.
    Alea jacta est!
  • charley95charley95 Posts: 918
    Kex wrote: »
    Yeah... I dunno charley. I’m speaking from ownership experience.

    I don’t care if MBZ, BMW or Audi are the most reliable cars out there, but there is certainly a reasonable expectation that that they will be reliable beyond even ten years or 100K miles. It’s certainly possible that Acura or Lexus are more reliable, but I don’t care if they are, because they are as boring as hell IMO... puffed up Accords and Camrys. If reliability is your main concern, then no, I would not suggest any of the German brands, but I look for other things, such as driving dynamics, Designo interiors... Acura on the outside have improved immensely since they finally abandoned the “beak” front. On the outside, I could certainly live with an Acura, but not Lexus. On the inside, both Acura & Lexus are plebeian IMO. They are worthy of a “prestige” edition of the Accord or Camry, but not worthy of a luxury car.

    There’s a reason they cost 10-20K less than the equivalent Audi, BMW or Mercedes-Benz. If the choice were between Lexus or Acura, I’d choose a fully optioned Accord V6.

    In any case, I favor independent mechanics specialized in the brand they maintain. For that reason, I will only ever buy BMW or Mercedes. There is no good independent mechanic for Lexus, Acura or Audi nearby. My independent mechanic charges me by the hour for what he does, at $105/hour. The dealers charge close to $200/hour, and the technicians are paid by the job, so they are actually incentivized to work fast, and find problems, not to do quality work. In this way, they can charge five hours for a particular job, but only take three hours to do that job. They rushed. They didn’t pay attention to detail.

    I’ve never once, in my lifetime, experienced a five figure repair on any vehicle. Even a 6 cylinder engine replacement for MBZ wouldn’t be five figures.

    I'll agree with ya on a few things. My 14 RX is so boring to drive and the interior is incredibly dull. At this stage in life, I guess I want to be bored and not have issues with the vehicle. Nothing ticks me off more when something fails prematurely. I can't complain too much with it though, It's 6 years old with 50k on the clock and has had zero warranty claims or repairs. If I want more excitement I'll hop into my new GS 350. It's pretty much night and day difference compared to the RX.

    Whatever makes the wife happy Noosh is all that matters anyway. I bet in a few years you'll be trading that thing in for a Bentley! :D
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,580
    The next car coming into the stable will be a 1965 Buick Riviera Gran Sport...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • KexKex Posts: 3,628
    charley95 wrote: »
    ...I can't complain too much with it though, It's 6 years old with 50k on the clock and has had zero warranty claims or repairs...

    Geez dude, 6 years and 50K? That’s not exactly an achievement! My newest vehicle is 12 years. My oldest 25 years and 222K miles.
    Alea jacta est!
  • KexKex Posts: 3,628
    edited November 10
    The next car coming into the stable will be a 1965 Buick Riviera Gran Sport...


    Nooshin won’t want to drive that one... hope it comes with a gas mask for the oil fumes! They do look amazing though. Best era of all for American automobiles.

    Buick Riviera Gran Sport...
    Alea jacta est!
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 8,637
    In the end, it literally doesn't matter what anyone thinks. She's probably in love with it which means happy life for John. Win/win all around.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • KexKex Posts: 3,628
    John, did you opt for the extended CPO warranty or an extended maintenance contract? I prefer to “self insure”, but just wondering what you decided to do.
    Alea jacta est!
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,580
    Got the warranty extension. It is unlimited miles through 2025. After that it will be another vehicle.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • maxwardmaxward Posts: 413
    Thanks for a great thread. Lots to ponder for someone who will be looking at a “luxury” compact SUV relatively soon. Since it has to pass the, ahem, WAF, I’m pretty sure that rules out Lexus (But t ugly, I’ve been told). Never tried a CPO car, but I’m interested now.
    Thorens TD-160C; Sumiko Talisman S, retipped by Soundsmith; Jolida JD9; Marantz CD-53; North Star Intenso;
    Joule-Electra LA-100; Balanced Power Technology AC conditioner;
    Odyssey Khartago monos (with most factory upgrades); Magnepan MG 3.6R
  • charley95charley95 Posts: 918
    maxward wrote: »
    Thanks for a great thread. Lots to ponder for someone who will be looking at a “luxury” compact SUV relatively soon. Since it has to pass the, ahem, WAF, I’m pretty sure that rules out Lexus (But t ugly, I’ve been told). Never tried a CPO car, but I’m interested now.

    We'll just slam the crap out of ya if you buy the wrong car! :D:D
  • charley95charley95 Posts: 918
    I offer Gambino financing if your interested. :D
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,648
    Got the warranty extension. It is unlimited miles through 2025. After that it will be another vehicle.

    Bingo John, that's how you do it. Once the warranty goes away, so should the vehicle. Least these higher end AUDI-BMW-MB. That's not just my opinion, you can pretty much ask any mechanic that works on these types of vehicles, they are all pretty much in lock step with that opinion.

    Only problem with that though, is you'll always have that car payment hanging over you. If you can handle that, then rock on. If you want freedom from that 4-500 month payment, think differently.

    Cars in general, while a necessity, are the worst possible investment for the money due to the amount of depreciation they are prone to. A mediocre luxury sedan/suv these days is 40-60k and up. We used to be able to buy condos for that price and rent them out.
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  • boston1450boston1450 Posts: 6,516
    Was listening to radio the other day & topic was how people trade in & still owe 10-15,000.00. They said the industry is making more money on that-then the car sale. Sad... That is a sweet ride there John. Looks comfortable with everything one should want. I've been a Volvo owner for many years. 240's up to XC90 now. When I retire I may step it up a notch to get the more comfy rides. Still keep a old pick em up truck though
    ...
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  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,893
    Yep walking in and paying cash for a vehicle will get you no discounts. Start talking financing and they start dropping off the dollars because they make it up in the end. One of my friends sells cars, told me best deal is to go in talk financing get the deal you want and pay it off with the first or second payment BUT make sure there is no penalty for paying off early. They can get you there as well.
  • KexKex Posts: 3,628
    The interwebs inform us that dealerships make more money on the sale of the financing, extended warranties, and maintenance contracts than on the sale of the car.

    Last time I thought about CPO, the extended warranty was about $3,500/4,500 (don’t remember which) for three additional years beyond the original 4 years new car warranty. From any of the cars I’ve owned, that would have been a very bad deal for me since none of my current vehicles have needed even $500 in repairs before they were seven years old (might even be $0, but I don’t recall without checking old invoices), so I might just as well handed them a wad of cash, wishing them a Merry Christmas or something. Similarly, the maintenance contract has always cost more than the services themselves, so I don’t buy those either (especially since my independent mechanic is even cheaper than the dealer, and uses OEM parts from MBZ). Both of these options give “peace of mind”, limiting the absolute maximum out of pocket over a given timeframe, but if I had bought extended warranties for the last two MBZ purchases, I would be out of pocket $7-9K. Maybe their pricing has evolved since to make it more palatable.

    Financing doesn’t bother me if the interest rate is low, so I’m happy to let them make some profit on that. I usually can expect to earn much more on any “idle” cash than the interest rate anyway.

    Having no car payments for so many years is awesome though!
    Alea jacta est!
  • KexKex Posts: 3,628
    maxward wrote: »
    Thanks for a great thread. Lots to ponder for someone who will be looking at a “luxury” compact SUV relatively soon. Since it has to pass the, ahem, WAF, I’m pretty sure that rules out Lexus (But t ugly, I’ve been told). Never tried a CPO car, but I’m interested now.
    CPO can be a great way to get exotic options at a relatively affordable price (which is what John seems to have done). One thing about Audi/BMW/Mercedes-Benz is that they are very good at getting you to tack on anything from $2K to $20K in options, if you want something like more sophisticated leather options (which are indeed gorgeous and tempting) or advanced driver assistance features.

    If I were you, I would think about your wife’s driving style when choosing. If she likes a more sporty vehicle, then BMW or Audi are likely to be better choices than MBZ. It has nothing to do with HP, torque or 0-60 times. It’s more to do with handling, and the transmission in particular.
    Alea jacta est!
  • maxwardmaxward Posts: 413
    Thanks. She’s a bit more sporty of a driver than I am. She does like M-B styling lately. So whether we choose one of those brands, or possibly a Volvo, will depend on how they all drive.
    Thorens TD-160C; Sumiko Talisman S, retipped by Soundsmith; Jolida JD9; Marantz CD-53; North Star Intenso;
    Joule-Electra LA-100; Balanced Power Technology AC conditioner;
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  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,580
    I will take some pictures of it over the next few days and post them up, but the one change I want to make is installing the AMG grill.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,648
    We paid less for the 2 year old MBZ than we would have paid for a Subaru, and after what my wife has been through this past year, she is entitled to smile about something...

    That's why CPO luxury vehicles are a bargain. They are built better than the lower lines of American cars and can cost less and last longer. If you want to drive a luxury car, a CPO is the way to go for less or the same coin as a new Honda ,Chevy, Ford.
    HT SYSTEM-
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    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

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    Tad 803 speakers
  • KexKex Posts: 3,628
    edited November 12
    Which AMG grille are you thinking of, John? Quite an investment, I would imagine.

    (I’m guessing that the top one with the vertical bars is not compatible without changing the whole bumper.)

    76cigoaincep.jpeg

    35yy80f9i0ed.jpeg
    Alea jacta est!
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,580
    This one...

    1uvfekc27oyc.jpg
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • maxwardmaxward Posts: 413
    And it’s a nice one.
    Thorens TD-160C; Sumiko Talisman S, retipped by Soundsmith; Jolida JD9; Marantz CD-53; North Star Intenso;
    Joule-Electra LA-100; Balanced Power Technology AC conditioner;
    Odyssey Khartago monos (with most factory upgrades); Magnepan MG 3.6R
  • WillowWillow Posts: 9,742
    Hope you and the family enjoy the new vehicle.
    2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607, Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 1 and AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Signal Dig Coax, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Marantz DV-4200 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII, Android Mi Box3 and Apple TV. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Polk Patio 25x4, Rotel RDV 1045 (as CDP) MIT AVT3 ICs - Work - Spotify Premium or Neutron App to my FiiO Kunlun into my Grado SR125e

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