Looking for New DAC

So story short my TEAC UD-301 pass out. Main board got rusted my best guess humidity got into it. Not sure why the area here is not that humid and all other components are fine after a check (amp, pre and player). All of this is in the output section of the DAC. I contacted TEAC about buying a new main board. No reply so far.

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I am considering getting the Marantz HD-DAC1 or Musical Fidelity MX DAC. Any comments?

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Or
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I will still try to repair the 301 and I will find the board.

Cheers
HT
AVR-Pioneer SC99
Adcom 585
RTi12s
Rear- RT150
Center-CSi5
Sub-Rythmik audio F25
Player- Oppo BDP-103


Living room 2ch rig:
Peach Tree Decco, Onkyo CS-5VL SACD and Linn Kelidh

Bedroom 2ch rig.
Cary AE-3, Parasound 2125, Marantz SA8005, Usher V-601 or SDA 1C, SVS SB12-NSD, Intel NUC PC and Panamax MX5105

Headphone rig;
Little DOT MK II with upgraded tube's and Sennheisers HD650.
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Comments

  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 5,599
    híjole! is that the Titanic?
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,109
    I wish I still had some Intenso in stock as it'd be a knock out winner over the HD-DAC1 which is my second favorite three figure DAC. I do have a Blue Diamond CD Player priced well below MSRP that could be your full digital solution, but still about twice your budget.

    I haven't announced it publicly, but my partnership with North Star is coming to a close. Unlike Dayens, NSD has been flawless and I truly wish I didn't have to take this route. If you can find some of their DAC's, they are particularly difficult to beat in the more budget-friendly arena.
  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 5,599
    DSkip wrote: »
    I wish I still had some Intenso in stock as it'd be a knock out winner over the HD-DAC1 which is my second favorite three figure DAC. I do have a Blue Diamond CD Player priced well below MSRP that could be your full digital solution, but still about twice your budget.

    I haven't announced it publicly, but my partnership with North Star is coming to a close. Unlike Dayens, NSD has been flawless and I truly wish I didn't have to take this route. If you can find some of their DAC's, they are particularly difficult to beat in the more budget-friendly arena.

    That totally blows! I wish I had room for an upgrade NS is the shciznit!
  • verbverb Posts: 7,637
    DSkip wrote: »
    I wish I still had some Intenso in stock as it'd be a knock out winner over the HD-DAC1 which is my second favorite three figure DAC. I do have a Blue Diamond CD Player priced well below MSRP that could be your full digital solution, but still about twice your budget.

    I haven't announced it publicly, but my partnership with North Star is coming to a close. Unlike Dayens, NSD has been flawless and I truly wish I didn't have to take this route. If you can find some of their DAC's, they are particularly difficult to beat in the more budget-friendly arena.

    Agree with Skip! I have the Intenso which is in the main rig, and I have an AMP-1 which has I believe has the same DAC, but I needed an integrated for the office rig.
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Cary SLP-05 Pre, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable, Marantz SA-14 SACD, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, PASS ACA Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,068
    Musics fidelity makes nice DACs
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 12,027
    Bryston makes a great DAC. While it has a four figure price, it is worth it.

    http://www.bryston.com/products/digital_audio/BDA-3.html
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • zingozingo Audiophile Posts: 11,829
    I love my NuForce WDC200 for it’s ability to handle lossless media over wifi.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,126
    I'm not sure that is rust in the photos, but possibly just electrical circuit damage.
    "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • DSkip wrote: »
    I wish I still had some Intenso in stock as it'd be a knock out winner over the HD-DAC1 which is my second favorite three figure DAC. I do have a Blue Diamond CD Player priced well below MSRP that could be your full digital solution, but still about twice your budget.

    I haven't announced it publicly, but my partnership with North Star is coming to a close. Unlike Dayens, NSD has been flawless and I truly wish I didn't have to take this route. If you can find some of their DAC's, they are particularly difficult to beat in the more budget-friendly arena.
    That's a bummer to hear that Skip. They had good stuff from what I heard. Are you on the hunt for something new in that price point, or possibly leaning on Norma for the digital front moving forward?
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Sony CDP-CE375 / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > JBL Studio 580 or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
  • WagnerRCWagnerRC Posts: 1,938
    Joey_V wrote: »
    Musics fidelity makes nice DACs

    I have an M1 dac in black sitting here in the closet. If anyone is looking.

  • Mikey081057Mikey081057 Posts: 6,586
    https://mytekdigital.com/hifi/

    I have a Brooklyn DAC+ and love it.
    My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

    HT:Polk LSiM 706 LSiM 705's VR3 LSiM 703's LSiM 702's| Marantz AV7704 | Sunfire TGA-7401 | Oppo UDP 203 | Sony PS4 Pro| Directv Genie HD DVR | Samsung 75" Q8 QLED | SVS PB13 Ultra | MIT EXP 2's (Fronts & Center)

    ManCave: Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro | Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's | Usher BE-616 Center | SVS Ultra Surrounds | SVS SB4000 Sub | SVS SB2000 Sub | Oppo UDP 203 | MIT Shotgun S3's | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life | Samsung 50" SUHD TV | Sony PS4

    Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |

    Office |Cocktail Audio X14 | KEF LS50 | Peactree Nova 125SE |

    Bedroom | Focal 905's | Chromecast Audio |

    Garage | Polk Monitor 5B's

    Closet Yamaha M80 | 2 Polk MP3K subs| Yaqin MC100B with Shuguang Treasures KT 88's & CV181Z's | Tesla E83CC's | Marantz 2252B | Marantz 2385 | Bluesound Node |Polk SDA SRS 2.3 |
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,109
    DSkip wrote: »
    I wish I still had some Intenso in stock as it'd be a knock out winner over the HD-DAC1 which is my second favorite three figure DAC. I do have a Blue Diamond CD Player priced well below MSRP that could be your full digital solution, but still about twice your budget.

    I haven't announced it publicly, but my partnership with North Star is coming to a close. Unlike Dayens, NSD has been flawless and I truly wish I didn't have to take this route. If you can find some of their DAC's, they are particularly difficult to beat in the more budget-friendly arena.
    That's a bummer to hear that Skip. They had good stuff from what I heard. Are you on the hunt for something new in that price point, or possibly leaning on Norma for the digital front moving forward?

    I'm not certain yet. I always have my eyes and ears peeled for something that sets itself apart.
  • IrrenhausIrrenhaus Posts: 854
    edited March 12
    Hi

    Thanks for the advice. Have not updated yet. Work has been very busy and add jury duty to the mix. Probably will go with the Marantz like the headphone amp feature will go well with My HD650.

    Cheers
    HT
    AVR-Pioneer SC99
    Adcom 585
    RTi12s
    Rear- RT150
    Center-CSi5
    Sub-Rythmik audio F25
    Player- Oppo BDP-103


    Living room 2ch rig:
    Peach Tree Decco, Onkyo CS-5VL SACD and Linn Kelidh

    Bedroom 2ch rig.
    Cary AE-3, Parasound 2125, Marantz SA8005, Usher V-601 or SDA 1C, SVS SB12-NSD, Intel NUC PC and Panamax MX5105

    Headphone rig;
    Little DOT MK II with upgraded tube's and Sennheisers HD650.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,109
    Get the Excelsio in the FM. It will trounce anything under four figures and is a steal at the price.
  • IrrenhausIrrenhaus Posts: 854
    DSkip wrote: »
    Get the Excelsio in the FM. It will trounce anything under four figures and is a steal at the price.

    Thanks for the recommendation but that one is gone. I am still looking been busy at work. This ones are also on the list.

    Yulong DA9 only draw back no remote.
    http://www.yulongaudio.com/pd.jsp?id=29#_pp=2_733

    Burson Audio Playmate Everest
    https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/playmate/

    RME ADI-2 DAC
    http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/adi_2-dac.php

    I will be in Japan next week and will be staying in the electronic district (Akihabara) not sure if I want to bring back something from there. Not sure how much I will have to pay at customs.

    Cheers
    HT
    AVR-Pioneer SC99
    Adcom 585
    RTi12s
    Rear- RT150
    Center-CSi5
    Sub-Rythmik audio F25
    Player- Oppo BDP-103


    Living room 2ch rig:
    Peach Tree Decco, Onkyo CS-5VL SACD and Linn Kelidh

    Bedroom 2ch rig.
    Cary AE-3, Parasound 2125, Marantz SA8005, Usher V-601 or SDA 1C, SVS SB12-NSD, Intel NUC PC and Panamax MX5105

    Headphone rig;
    Little DOT MK II with upgraded tube's and Sennheisers HD650.
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 12,027
    Get the Lumin X1, which is a file player and DAC. I have the S1, and will soon be upgrading to the X1. However, I recently upgraded the S1 power supply to the X1 power supply, and have been so happy I am in no rush to get the X1, but eventually I will.

    A big benefit of the integrated DAC in the Lumin is you do not need to buy a DAC power cord, and interconnect cables. That saves at least $6K right there over having an external DAC.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,342
    The Marantz SA14 I have in the FM is a top notch SACD player and a pretty good DAC.
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII Upgraded by Rich Brkich Pre
    Butler Audio TBD 2250 Amp
    PS Audio DirectStream DAC and MemoryPlayer Transport
    LSA-1 Statement
    SVS SB4000 & SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

    Backup Gear:
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
  • verbverb Posts: 7,637
    Irrenhaus wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    Get the Excelsio in the FM. It will trounce anything under four figures and is a steal at the price.

    Thanks for the recommendation but that one is gone.

    I will be in Japan next week and will be staying in the electronic district (Akihabara) not sure if I want to bring back something from there. Not sure how much I will have to pay at customs.

    Cheers

    Sorry my friend as I snagged the NS and love it! :smile:

    Hey the native stuff in Japan, aren’t they different in power requirements? 100v and 220v depending on the region, IIRC.
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Cary SLP-05 Pre, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable, Marantz SA-14 SACD, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, PASS ACA Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
  • IrrenhausIrrenhaus Posts: 854
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Get the Lumin X1, which is a file player and DAC. I have the S1, and will soon be upgrading to the X1. However, I recently upgraded the S1 power supply to the X1 power supply, and have been so happy I am in no rush to get the X1, but eventually I will.

    A big benefit of the integrated DAC in the Lumin is you do not need to buy a DAC power cord, and interconnect cables. That saves at least $6K right there over having an external DAC.

    That one is out of budget.

    Cheers
    HT
    AVR-Pioneer SC99
    Adcom 585
    RTi12s
    Rear- RT150
    Center-CSi5
    Sub-Rythmik audio F25
    Player- Oppo BDP-103


    Living room 2ch rig:
    Peach Tree Decco, Onkyo CS-5VL SACD and Linn Kelidh

    Bedroom 2ch rig.
    Cary AE-3, Parasound 2125, Marantz SA8005, Usher V-601 or SDA 1C, SVS SB12-NSD, Intel NUC PC and Panamax MX5105

    Headphone rig;
    Little DOT MK II with upgraded tube's and Sennheisers HD650.
  • IrrenhausIrrenhaus Posts: 854
    kharp1 wrote: »
    The Marantz SA14 I have in the FM is a top notch SACD player and a pretty good DAC.

    I already have a SA8005 using as a DAC till I get something else.
    HT
    AVR-Pioneer SC99
    Adcom 585
    RTi12s
    Rear- RT150
    Center-CSi5
    Sub-Rythmik audio F25
    Player- Oppo BDP-103


    Living room 2ch rig:
    Peach Tree Decco, Onkyo CS-5VL SACD and Linn Kelidh

    Bedroom 2ch rig.
    Cary AE-3, Parasound 2125, Marantz SA8005, Usher V-601 or SDA 1C, SVS SB12-NSD, Intel NUC PC and Panamax MX5105

    Headphone rig;
    Little DOT MK II with upgraded tube's and Sennheisers HD650.
  • IrrenhausIrrenhaus Posts: 854
    Well the Pioneer was not available new. Only floor samples and no boxes.
    No time to get boxes to take it home. Well I will be back next month.

    Cheers
    HT
    AVR-Pioneer SC99
    Adcom 585
    RTi12s
    Rear- RT150
    Center-CSi5
    Sub-Rythmik audio F25
    Player- Oppo BDP-103


    Living room 2ch rig:
    Peach Tree Decco, Onkyo CS-5VL SACD and Linn Kelidh

    Bedroom 2ch rig.
    Cary AE-3, Parasound 2125, Marantz SA8005, Usher V-601 or SDA 1C, SVS SB12-NSD, Intel NUC PC and Panamax MX5105

    Headphone rig;
    Little DOT MK II with upgraded tube's and Sennheisers HD650.
  • BlueBirdMusicBlueBirdMusic Registered User Posts: 656
    That is some "CANDY" store.
  • IrrenhausIrrenhaus Posts: 854

    Okay so I kind of taken a different route on this one. I just pulled the trigger on the Schiit Jotunheim with no DAC. I have been using the DAC on the SA8005 and has been working great and I will like to able to better power my headphones. (650, Meze Noir and Marshall's)

    https://www.schiit.com/products/jotunheim

    I will still be looking for a separate DAC in the future, maybe one with balance outputs.

    Once it's get here I will start another thread on the Headphone section.

    Cheers
    HT
    AVR-Pioneer SC99
    Adcom 585
    RTi12s
    Rear- RT150
    Center-CSi5
    Sub-Rythmik audio F25
    Player- Oppo BDP-103


    Living room 2ch rig:
    Peach Tree Decco, Onkyo CS-5VL SACD and Linn Kelidh

    Bedroom 2ch rig.
    Cary AE-3, Parasound 2125, Marantz SA8005, Usher V-601 or SDA 1C, SVS SB12-NSD, Intel NUC PC and Panamax MX5105

    Headphone rig;
    Little DOT MK II with upgraded tube's and Sennheisers HD650.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,298
    Take a look at PS Audio... I have been in love with my digital side since I got a PerfectWave MkII.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • IrrenhausIrrenhaus Posts: 854
    This seems to be a nice DAC.

    http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R1/R1EN.htm

    HT
    AVR-Pioneer SC99
    Adcom 585
    RTi12s
    Rear- RT150
    Center-CSi5
    Sub-Rythmik audio F25
    Player- Oppo BDP-103


    Living room 2ch rig:
    Peach Tree Decco, Onkyo CS-5VL SACD and Linn Kelidh

    Bedroom 2ch rig.
    Cary AE-3, Parasound 2125, Marantz SA8005, Usher V-601 or SDA 1C, SVS SB12-NSD, Intel NUC PC and Panamax MX5105

    Headphone rig;
    Little DOT MK II with upgraded tube's and Sennheisers HD650.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,109
    The Audio-GD I got from Danny was a decent piece but it had a really noisy transformer that smeared everything in the soundstage. At that price for an R2R I'd be scared of the same issue. At that price I'd rather have the Marantz HD-DAC1.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,298
    After seeing pictures of the inside, I had doubts about the transformer as well.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,125
    Mojo Audio uses R2R in their DACs. I love my V2. Built like a tank.
    v9f4j50074c7.jpg
    qyqdaz3k8ju1.jpg

    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...SDA-1A (Fully Modded with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
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