$2k DAC
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VR3
Posts: 28,061
So I'm contemplating in the far future to send off my tri Vista dac to be upgraded.
The cost of this would to and from shipping is around 1300, with the cost of the dac used, it would equate to a 2k investment
If I were to buy a dac at this price point... Whats a good starting point?
I really like that the tri Vista is tubed since I am running a passive preamp.
Any modern day tubed dacs?
I do not want anything else on the dac, no pre stage or anything fancy like screens or streamers. I just want a hardcore built like a tank, makes small children cry build quality.
The cost of this would to and from shipping is around 1300, with the cost of the dac used, it would equate to a 2k investment
If I were to buy a dac at this price point... Whats a good starting point?
I really like that the tri Vista is tubed since I am running a passive preamp.
Any modern day tubed dacs?
I do not want anything else on the dac, no pre stage or anything fancy like screens or streamers. I just want a hardcore built like a tank, makes small children cry build quality.
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
Answers
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Isn't that what you have with the Tri-Vista?
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
The tri Vista is a20 year old piece of equipment, things have changed since its time.
My ultimate question is, if I upgrade the tri Vista, will it be worth it versus buying a new 2k dac.
I am very fond of the sound of the tri Vista and I don't know of any place selling high end dacs with a nice return policy.
A part of me would rather upgrade the tri Vista- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
I am by no means a DAC expert, but from what I have heard through the years, the Marantz SACD Player I have has the best DAC I have heard to date. With that said, I have not heard their TOTL stand alone DAC (if they even make one)....and even then, I don't think they offer anything in a tubed.
During the upgrade, can they swap out the chip to the same as the one in the Marantz? If they can, then you would have everything you desire, as I have heard that the chip is a huge part of what makes the Marantz sound so good.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
This is what Underwood offers -
6 x Burr-Brown OPA627 op amps (world's best for audio) assemblies for the I-V conversion, analog filter and output buffer positions
6 x upgraded power supplies caps and Telefunken high speed diodes
4 x upgraded coupling caps with TFT Teflon bypass caps
8 x Telefunken high speed soft-recover Fred-style diodes
Polystyrene caps for the analog filter stage
24 x Riken Carbon-Comp 1% resistors (with gold leads) for the signal path
Vampire direct Gold-over-Copper RCA jacks
DH Labs pure 99.999% solid-core silver signal wire with formed Teflon dielectric throughout the internal upgrades.
SoundCoat chassis dampening material to quiet the chassis.
Illuminati Ohm-aha 75 ohm digital hook-up wire to replace the inexpensive stock wire
An Acme Audio silver-plated cryogenically treated IEC connector
WBT silver solder used throughout
6 hours labor to perform the mod
Im waiting to compare to Parts Connexion- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Hmmm, my suggestion may not be possible. I found this information out;
"Super Audio DAC: The SA-7S1 uses two High Accuracy NPC SM5866A5 192 kHz/24-bit Digital-to-Analog Converters for DSD and PCM signal processing.
HDAM (High Definition Amplifier Module): Marantz uses HDAMs instead of standard op-amps, rendering a more dynamic sound and less susceptibility to radiated noise, heat, and vibration. In addition to Marantz's proprietary HDAM-SA2 (Super Audio) signal transfer modules, audio path circuits boast custom-selected and, in some cases, custom-made internal components chosen for their combined contribution to overall signal quality. "
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Yeah I don't see that being changed. I like the sound and build quality of the Tri Vista. Will see, Im still seeing what is out there. Ever heard of Doge audio?
Maybe I can find a Marantz SA-10 used
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
No, that's a new one on me.
If you no longer have physical media, then the Marantz isn't for you. Perhaps we can make a road trip down Hotlanta and check out Hi-Fi Buys while we are down there. They have a plethora of Dac's and they don't use physical media either, so what you hear is what you'll get.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
The Marantz SA-10 accepts digital inputs... only problem is the MSRP is 8k!
Dealership demos are difficult since all of the equipment is different + the room- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Most of the newer DACs are going to have DSD support, which could be a major drawback for the Trivista DAC for some now. Generally speaking, I find newer DACs to be more highly resolving than older ones which can sound more like analog. Some may think the Trivista sounds a bit dull compared to what they may be used to with current products, but I like the sound. If very detailed and highly resolving sound is what someone craves, the Trivista isn't the right gear for Redbook quality sound.
Personally, within its limitations, I don't think anything current can touch the Trivista for the cost if it's modified and Underwood and Chris Johnson have a very long track record of modifying things well. MF already used good parts in it in its stock form. -
That's a good point.
While I do like a brighter sound, I'm not looking for something that picks everything apart to where I'm stuck listening to Norah Jones.
With my current system, I find few recordings I don't mind listening to. Everything has an enjoyable sound to me.
Appreciate the feedback, thank you- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Not sure if @DSkip carries Northstar anymore, but the Supremo may be be worth considering. I believe @GlennDog has one, I went from the Intenso to the Excelsio and am very happy.Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
I read your review, kind of what made me curious as to some newer offerings. Their gear looks very nice- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Take a look at Mojo Audio. They do not support DSD so that might be an issue. They always have factory refurbished for a good deal. 45 day free trial no questions asked. My V2 is not going anywhere.Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER" -
The OPA627 op-amp is solid, but it's an older op=amp. Discrete op-amps will best it by a large margin. I assume real estate is the reason they aren't spec'ing discrete op-amps.
The 627 was the best 10 years ago, today?? It is a very analog sounding op-amp, but it does lack some detail and depth.
I switched from the OPA 627 to discrete Dexa op-amps in both my dac's and the improvement in detail, smoothness, depth and clarity was quite noticeable.
Just my .02c
H9
P.s. "world's best for audio" is debatable. One could do worse, but they aren't cutting edge and I'd worry about using such an analog and laid back op-amp in a tubed piece of gear."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Parts connexion came back with essentially the same. Mod but using, DEAA discrete op amps, instead of the burr brown.
NewClassD Opamp 8Pin DIP Single Special Edition
https://www.partsconnexion.com/NCLASSD-79503.html
I am leaning towards this direction as it sounds like it will modernize it but retain its qualities I like.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
If you have the real estate to fit them, they are superb. I have the previous special edition versions. Excellent choice!
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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Trey,
Do you use your MF tri-vista dac to play ripped CD"S from computer and from a transport? Or just one of the above. Coax or optical?"Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"
Harry / Marietta GA -
I solely use tidal, no physical media.
Connection via coax- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Build the newest Twisted Pear Audio Buffalo-IIIsePro-28 and you have all options available and it sounds great.Main system: Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 w/ Pioneer 42" plazma-> Polk LSiM 703 w/Tivo, Marantz tuner, BRPTT: Nothingham Spacedeck-> Pioneer PL L1000 linear arm-> Soundsmith DL 103R-> SUT->Bottlehead ErosDigital: I3 PC w/ Jriver playing flac -> Sonore Ultrarendu -> Twisted Pair Audio ESS 9028 w/ Mercury IVY Vinyl rips: ESI Juli@24/192-> i3 PC server
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I decided to just have the Vista modded, with the discrete op amps, should have it back in a few weeks
I have been extremely happy with the tri Vista sonic signature- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Same here. I'll have to come check yours out or we will have to do an A/B comparison on one of our rigs to hear exactly what difference the mods make.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I solely use tidal, no physical media.
Connection via coax
The reason I'm asking is I'm giving my PS Audio Nuwave DSD DAC to my girl, and I am considering MF X-DAC v3 with tube buffer as a replacement for awhile.
"Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"
Harry / Marietta GA -
I believe Tom used a different musical fidelity DAC before the tri Vista, perhaps he can advise
@treitz3- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
I had the MF V-DAC (think I still do). It's ho-hum. Haven't heard the one you are referring too BBM, so I can't comment. I do like the idea of tubes in the mix though.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I haven't got it back yet... But I of course couldn't just let them do just the original stuff on the list, had to find... MORE
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Versus stock
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Trey,
Who did you go with? Underwood or Parts Connection? Maybe they are one in the same as they are both mentioned on Underwood. And where did you send it? Canada to Parts Connection? Marietta for Underwood?
I have a Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated Amp that needs a few things done sometime or the complete upgrade. The buttons on the front of amp do not always select the source. But, the remote always makes the selection. And it has some noise in the big round volume control knob of the amp only in the right channel when lowering or raising the volume. Thanks!
Harry Jones"Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"
Harry / Marietta GA -
I used parts connexion. Underwood is different.
Parts connexion was offering Underwood mod at 250 cheaper, plus shipping with a label from parts connexion was 25 dollars, so no brainer compared to 150 to Underwood.
I haven't received the unit back but I have had no complaints about anything up to this point- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
