Big Car Repair Screw-up

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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,001
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    monepolk wrote: »
    jdjohn wrote: »
    I should be able to measure/test for CCA with my multimeter. If I have 12+VDC and a few hundred CCA, the battery should be considered good, right? I do have a trickle-charger as well if needed. Like I said, it is my son's truck, and we know how kids will often sit in their cars with the accessories on...not good for a battery.

    BTW, for reference, this a 3rd generation 4Runner (2000), which shares the drive train and chassis of a Tacoma. This vehicle has 316K miles on it :o

    Make SURE you have a meter that will handle the DC amperage!!!
    Good call, and thanks for the warning. Actually, my DMM won't handle it (only goes to 10A), but my dad has given me at least two proper battery testers. He buys random tools, etc. on clearance and gives them to me. I always roll my eyes when I get (yet another) tool from him, but looks like I can actually use this one now :)
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,001
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    joecoulson wrote: »
    You will be using something alternate for your journey Saturday I hope.
    Don't worry, Joe. I'll rent a car if I have to!
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,352
    edited February 2019
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    A schematic would help for your exact model year to ID fuses/links. This is 2002 4Runner, shows fuse link between battery/underhood fuse box. If you follow schematic, you'll see alternator is fed from B+ battery and connects to engine bay fuse box via 3. This could be why you get some dash response, IF this is similar to your model year 2000. If the schematic is correct, they show B+ to starter and alternator before link.

    If you can't find exact schematic for your vehicle, manufacturers typically have a couple day subscription access to vehicle manuals for ~$20.

    thxw0yv7ra8a.png
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • shawn474
    shawn474 Posts: 3,047
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    OK, then post here:
    https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/

    Same user name will be able to help you out most likely
    Shawn
    AVR: Marantz SR-5011
    Center Channel: Polk LsiM706c
    Front: Polk LsiM703
    Rear: LSI fx
    Subwoofer: SVS 20-39pci
    Television: Samsung UN58NU7100FXZA
    DVD Player: Sony PS4
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  • monepolk
    monepolk Posts: 1,140
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    quote]
    Good call, and thanks for the warning. Actually, my DMM won't handle it (only goes to 10A), but my dad has given me at least two proper battery testers. He buys random tools, etc. on clearance and gives them to me. I always roll my eyes when I get (yet another) tool from him, but looks like I can actually use this one now :) [/quote]
    A man after my own heart. My wife use to do the same thing when I would buy tools like that. Until she realized that she hardly ever had to pay someone for a repair.

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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,001
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    SCompRacer wrote: »
    A schematic would help for your exact model year to ID fuses/links. This is 2002 4Runner, shows fuse link between battery/underhood fuse box. If you follow schematic, you'll see alternator is fed from B+ battery and connects to engine bay fuse box via 3. This could be why you get some dash response, IF this is similar to your model year 2000. If the schematic is correct, they show B+ to starter and alternator before link.

    If you can't find exact schematic for your vehicle, manufacturers typically have a couple day subscription access to vehicle manuals for ~$20.

    thxw0yv7ra8a.png
    Hey, thanks SCR B) Is that the V6 engine? I actually have a PDF at home of the 1996 Tacoma service manual, which normally works for my needs...but not always.

    Thanks @shawn474 for the link.

    @monepolk My dad has said his goal is that I never have to buy another tool. Another fun fact: He hoarded/collected vintage audio gear from thrift stores before it was 'cool'. I used to give him a hard time about that, but let's just say I wouldn't be on this forum if it weren't for his collecting :)
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,352
    edited February 2019
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    jdjohn wrote: »


    Hey, thanks SCR B) Is that the V6 engine?

    You are most welcome. Unfortunately I do this for a living, but on medium duty trucks. "8" could be what guy is adding, so alt would be connected after link.

    I just snagged that doing a quick google search. Unsure of what engine. It looks like someone was doing the "big three" for their audio system.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • Nesmith98
    Nesmith98 Posts: 214
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    Fried engine to chassis ground strap maybe?
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,001
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    IT'S ALIVE!!! It was the battery. Even though it measured 12VDC, it had basically no amps...or not enough amps. The cheapo battery tester my dad gave me showed this, and the parts store confirmed with their fancier tester. My son had bought the cheaper 2yr warranty battery a couple years ago, which fell out of warranty back in Oct. I guess that quick arc yesterday finished it off.

    I've never had it happen before where a battery was so gone that it wouldn't jump start, but as was mentioned first by motorhead and nooshinjohn, the battery was obviously damaged/shorted. I may be lucky that the battery was so weak...if fully juiced, it might have caused actual damage :o

    Unfortunately, though, it still has the misfire and is running rough. I think I'll register over on that 4Runner forum for more research/help. Thanks to all for your input!

    Time for a beer B)
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,020
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    Glad it was an easy fix!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,032
    edited February 2019
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    The battery was probably hurtin' before the incident; the short was probably just the coup d'grace.

    :|

    Ooh, misfire, and a 4Runner! I shoulda been paying attention! Did I see that it was a 96?!? Or did I misread something in an earlier post?

    Does it have coil packs for each cylinder? Those can cause random-ish misfires. Had that problem on our son-in-law's 02 Tundra (V8)... and thought I had that problem a little while later on my 02 Taco (4 cyl).

    Does the 4Runner in question have direct fuel injection (like the aforementioned 02 Taco)? If so, could be the injectors.
    Been there, done that.
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,001
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    It's a 2000, which is the same generation (3G) as '96. Three coil packs - each one controls two cylinders. I tested them for continuity, and all measured within spec. Also tested the high-tension coil wires, and again within spec.

    It was throwing a code for misfire in cylinder 2, so I pulled that spark plug. It was wet and greasy, so I'm led to believe it is getting fuel. I may have to proceed with a compression test...not fun.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • Malbec
    Malbec Posts: 548
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    For further reference:

    https://ether3al.com/FSM/runner96-02fsm/

    I have a 2000 4Runner I bought new and still have it. Had a '81 4x4 PU, '92 2wheel drive, '96 Tacoma 4x4, and my son has a '08 Tacoma 4x4 that has caused me grief.

    I do my own wrenching and found a code reader to be a handy item to have.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004J2V0ZO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    As far as the misfire and running rough, could be any number of things.
    Peruse these websites, lots of good info

    https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/
    http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/
    https://www.toyota-4runner.org


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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,015
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    I like it when problems are an easy fix for people!

    I'm glad for you! ;):)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • Rich502
    Rich502 Posts: 146
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    Glad to hear the battery fixed the non-starting issue instead of something more major. As for the misfire, I agree with mhardy, probably a bad coil pack or injector. Coil pack would be easy to test, if you swap it and see if you get the misfire code on a different cylinder. I know you said they tested within range, but they are fragile and with that many miles I doubt all are still 100%.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,094
    edited February 2019
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    jdjohn wrote: »
    IT'S ALIVE!!! It was the battery. Even though it measured 12VDC, it had basically no amps...or not enough amps. The cheapo battery tester my dad gave me showed this, and the parts store confirmed with their fancier tester. My son had bought the cheaper 2yr warranty battery a couple years ago, which fell out of warranty back in Oct. I guess that quick arc yesterday finished it off.

    I've never had it happen before where a battery was so gone that it wouldn't jump start, but as was mentioned first by motorhead and nooshinjohn, the battery was obviously damaged/shorted. I may be lucky that the battery was so weak...if fully juiced, it might have caused actual damage :o

    Unfortunately, though, it still has the misfire and is running rough. I think I'll register over on that 4Runner forum for more research/help. Thanks to all for your input!

    Time for a beer B)
    Where's my gold star for figuring it out first? ;):p

    Random multiple misfires could be intake related. My Jag had random misfires and the intake needed to be re-gasketed. Same on my 2001 Sunfire.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,001
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    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    Where's my gold star for figuring it out first? ;):p

    Random multiple misfires could be intake related. My Jag had random misfires and the intake needed to be re-gasketed. Same on my 2001 Sunfire.
    :p
    5wjfinlk0pvb.jpeg

    Yeah, went through the gasket thing on my son's first car - a Ford Escape. Plastic intake on that POS, very unreliable. After it warmed-up and everything swelled/sealed, it would settle down.

    This 4Runner didn't have the check engine light on tonight during the test drive, but clearly still not running right. It may have a code stored, though, will have to check it out. I pulled two plugs on Saturday, and only one (cylinder 2) was dirty, so not totally random.

    The wires were replaced at some point...they look too new to be original, and some brackets are missing. One coil pack is different than the other two, but it's not the (supposed) suspect one.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • WagnerRC
    WagnerRC Posts: 2,139
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    Good job to all involved.
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,001
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    After doing an R&R for plug wires and coil packs with no improvement in running/idling, I moved on to R&R the fuel injectors.

    I decided to save a few bucks by ordering a set of 6 off eBay. Here is the comparison between OEM and the eBay replacements:
    zn0lkbjvxyyg.jpg
    Want to guess which one leaked from the top?

    In this pic, I have switched the bottom and top o-rings. The top seal is much tighter now after swapping the o-rings.
    u6tue9d9nrvx.jpg
    I think they have an assembly line training issue. The fatter o-rings belong on the top, and more slender o-rings belong on the bottom.

    A little blog history: I did identify that fuel-injector #2 had no continuity and was faulty as indicated by ECU codes. I wanted to replace all 6, and cut corners a bit with an eBay vendor :(
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,432
    edited April 2019
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    Looks like a harbor freight o-ring at the top and bottom... Not good. Also it looks like that is not a new injector. Just one that someone cleaned. Send them back!

    You could reuse the old o-rings in a pinch but you should get factory replacement IMHO
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
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    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,001
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    SUCCESS!!! Flipping the o-rings provided a good seal, so all is dry and running (literally) on all cylinders now :) The check engine light turned-off on its own.

    In the process, I broke the very brittle/fragile/old PCV valve while trying to move the hose around, so had to replace that (and the grommet). Also, I discovered that the entry tube of heater control valve had broken-off :s likely due to prior over-heating, so I drove all over town to find a new valve, and popped it in.

    Running great now, but still needs new shocks on the back, two new tires on the front, and a new windshield.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,094
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    Sounds like progress is being made in the right direction.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,434
    edited April 2019
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    Nice job, Jody!

    What do you like for shocks? I like Old Man Emu suspensions for Toyotas. Used to get KYB or Tokico for cars. Used them on stock height trucks too. I don't know what's decent anymore these days.

    I also need a windshield. What's the consensus on those aftermarket ones? I sure see "wavy optics" in some vehicle windshields, even new. That'd drive me nuts. I do not want one of those.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,559
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    Try wearing polarized glasses Scott they make seeing those 10x worse. I've had no problems with my aftermarket windshield. Autoglass asked me two questions when I replaced mine.
    1. Do you need the Ford logo in the masking at the bottom?
    2. If yes do you have $85.00 more for it?

    Autoglass told me my windshield was made by the same folks either way.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,434
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    Ah, good info, Ivan, thanks.
    I do wear polarized glasses. I think i got my first pair sometime in the 90s and haven't worn anything else since. For all the benefits, yeah, a few drawbacks here and there.

    I'll check with insurance and look around for Autoglass and ask a few questions. I just went out to do a little reading. No shortage of wavy windshield complaints out there. Gyah.

    Springboard for you here on the windshield replacement, Jody :)
    I disabled signatures.
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,001
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    Thanks all. I will probably let my son decide on (and pay for) the shocks, windshield, etc. I think I've done plenty on this vehicle already. Time for him to give me my car back, and he can now go through emissions testing and get his tag renewed.

    I've only had a windshield replaced once before (my daughter's old vehicle), and just went to a drive-up place...similar to an oil-change while-you-wait. I just now looked-up the location, and it's called Low Price Auto Glass.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • dalylaleahthor
    dalylaleahthor Posts: 322
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    Wished I would have saw this post way earlier. I too own a 3rd gen 4runner. Also coming up on 300k. Just went through all those issue you mentioned. As a peace of mind because your son is driving it I would replace the lower ball joint if it hasn't been changed as it is a known to fail. Regular maintenance should get you many more years and mileage to come.
    Epson 3020 projector. Da Lite screen. Oppo 103. Yamaha CXA5000. B&K 7250ii. HSU VTF2. Def Tech Supercube 4000. Polk Rtia9 CsiA6 FxiA6. Monster hts 2600. Home theater.

    Bedroom consist of NHT model 2 powered by Parasound hca1200ii coming from my computer.

    Stuff laying around. Too much to list but don't want to sell either.
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