Big Car Repair Screw-up
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jdjohn
Posts: 3,004
I was trouble-shooting a misfire in my son's 4Runner today, and while removing a spark plug, the ratchet handle touched the positive battery terminal. Big spark, and now no-go. I fear the worst...may have fried the entire electrical system, but hoping we had some fuse protection.
Now I have a better appreciation for the typical step one in auto repair - disconnect negative battery terminal.
Now I have a better appreciation for the typical step one in auto repair - disconnect negative battery terminal.
"This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
Comments
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Get on some 4Runner web sites and present them with the question? I would guess a fuse blew first? I am on tundras.com and they help me out all the time. Be careful hanging around there. They can also help you spend your money. Just like the gentlemen on here.
Good luck. DMIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?” -
Check mainfuse in fuse relay box under hood.2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.
Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
Imagine making politics your entire personality. -
Exactly there is a main fuse that blew. All should be fine
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It may also be something called a "fusible link" as well. These tend to be buried within a harness before critical components as a backup in case something happens between the main fuse and the computers. They are more difficult to find.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/118678-how-replace-fusible-links-w-pics.htmlThe Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Hopefully it's just a fuse somewhere. Possibly one not too far from the battery terminal?
I can relate to you hitting the ratchet on the positive terminal. Many moons ago as a young newlywed I was wrenching on the positive terminal with pair of pliers. I came in contact with a ground with my wedding ring making the connection. The gold band was a great conductor and instantly turned red hot. I learned that lesson the painful way right then and there; always disconnect the negative side first. -
Thanks guys. I'll start with the main fuse, and go from there."This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
I'm assuming the "no-go" means no power whatsoever....if that's the case that's surely better than cranking with no start.
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In case it's not the fuse...
Dunno if Toyota uses different wiring harness smoke than vintage (NOS) Lucas smoke?
The latter, of course, is still readily available for vintage British auto enthusiasts.
Just tryin' to cheer the OP up. Chances are, it's a fuse -- someplace!
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Haha, Doc! Really showing your age with that old joke
Luckily, no smoke or even burnt smell in my case. Whew!
That's correct...no power at all. Initially, the dashboard lights up as normal, but then all goes dark.I'm assuming the "no-go" means no power whatsoever....if that's the case that's surely better than cranking with no start."This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
... Initially, the dashboard lights up as normal, but then all goes dark.
oh, that doesn't sound encouraging.
Did it only do that once, and then stay dark on a repeated trial, or does it do that again (light up, then dark) if the key's turned to ACC again?
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The pattern seems to be that, after sitting/resting for several minutes, put keys in ignition, ding, ding, ding, dash lights up as normal, turn key and all goes dark. Then it stays dark for any immediate repeat attempts.
Let it sit several minutes, and then the same pattern again. That was yesterday afternoon. I haven't looked at it, or tried it again, since. I'll look for the main fuse when I get home from work this evening."This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
Any chance the battery itself was damaged?The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
I guess anything is possible, but we tried jumping it as well with no luck.nooshinjohn wrote: »Any chance the battery itself was damaged?
I was just reading about an older generation 4Runner with similar problem, and in it, there was a fusible link between the positive battery terminal and the fuse box that burned up."This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
No link and no power gets through at all. That means the vehicle is dead as a stump. There should be no lights on anywhere, including the dash. If there is even one good cell in the battery, and the fuses are allowing power through, you would get lights briefly like you talk about.
Disconnect the battery and have it tested too. Then check all fuses and links and try again with a new battery if needed.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Highly possible the battery shorted. This will not allow you to even jump it. When this happens weird things happen with the dash lights and instruments. Like the tach needle jumping around while trying to start and other oddities when turning the key. The battery shorts and can't find a ground.2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.
Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
Imagine making politics your entire personality. -
I did test battery voltage, and it has 12+VDC. I think my next step (should have done it yesterday) is to test for voltage reaching the main fuse box. If there's no juice getting there, it would indicate failed link between the terminal and the box."This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
But juice is getting there if the dash lights come on, even if they are dimmed as you stated.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Maybe there's enough of a 'link' remaining to initially light-up the dash, but then when any additional load is added, it says, 'nope'."This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
^^Nope cant happen. That battery link opens there is no power to anything.2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.
Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
Imagine making politics your entire personality. -
Just goes to show how awesome this forum is! Everybody chiming in to try to help a brother out. Good luck. DMIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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I've seen "nope" happen... But usually it's heavy corrosion related. Nothing saying the link can't still pass minimal current even when burnt.motorhead43026 wrote: »^^Nope cant happen. That battery link opens there is no power to anything.
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FWIW, I like @motorhead43026's hypothesis. Really and completely dead lead-acid batteries can do all kinds of weird things, including resist being jumped. I wouldn't think an instantaneous short-circuit as described in the OP could've damaged the battery without welding the ratchet to something firstbut, again, a really sudden and profound current drain and, perhaps (?) and iffy battery could cause an internal short and muck things up pretty significantly. My "understanding" (belief) is that the internal plates can warp in the individual cells that make up the battery (and a 12V car battery is a battery of cells -- unlike a "flashlight battery" which is in fact a single cell).
If another battery's handy, do a quick swap & see what happens!
No warranty and no liability on my part for any undesired outcomes, though!
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I belong here; great information and quick responses. For anything electrical, there is a member there that is a great help and someone who is super friendly. His user name is rigtec
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/
Shawn
AVR: Marantz SR-5011
Center Channel: Polk LsiM706c
Front: Polk LsiM703
Rear: LSI fx
Subwoofer: SVS 20-39pci
Television: Samsung UN58NU7100FXZA
DVD Player: Sony PS4 -
That same misfire could be related to a possibly shorted battery or defective battery.The ignition is battery excited, if it is not taking a charge or shorted, an ignition misfire is appropriate. It can still show 12 volts and be defective once put under load.2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.
Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
Imagine making politics your entire personality. -
That would be incorrect Motor.... once a vehicle starts, the alternator provides electrical power for all vehicle systems, including firing the ingnition coils. The battery’s only job is to start the car, and most vehicles will run even if the battery is removed from the system.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
^^You are wrong, not on modern machines.
Go start your car and disconnect the battery. Report back with the results. And be sure to rev the engine while the battery is disconnected.
Post edited by motorhead43026 on2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.
Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
Imagine making politics your entire personality. -
....The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
I should be able to measure/test for CCA with my multimeter. If I have 12+VDC and a few hundred CCA, the battery should be considered good, right? I do have a trickle-charger as well if needed. Like I said, it is my son's truck, and we know how kids will often sit in their cars with the accessories on...not good for a battery.
BTW, for reference, this a 3rd generation 4Runner (2000), which shares the drive train and chassis of a Tacoma. This vehicle has 316K miles on it
"This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
You will be using something alternate for your journey Saturday I hope.
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I should be able to measure/test for CCA with my multimeter. If I have 12+VDC and a few hundred CCA, the battery should be considered good, right? I do have a trickle-charger as well if needed. Like I said, it is my son's truck, and we know how kids will often sit in their cars with the accessories on...not good for a battery.
BTW, for reference, this a 3rd generation 4Runner (2000), which shares the drive train and chassis of a Tacoma. This vehicle has 316K miles on it
Make SURE you have a meter that will handle the DC amperage!!!
