Funny story about my new cables

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audioluvr
audioluvr Posts: 5,434
in 2 Channel Audio
So one of my recent upgrades to the 2 ch system was picking up a set of Wireworld Mini-Eclipse speaker cables. If you haven't upgraded from lamp cord (or Monster Cable in my case) you don't know what you're missing.

While a regarded audio repair tech was at my place picking up a Carver amp I sold, I showed him my living room system (because that's what us guys do). When I first put on a track of his choice he immediately started looking around and said "oh you put in a surround system huh?". I said "no thats my SDA's you're hearing". Coming from a guy that truly knows how Sonic Holography works that's not bad! So first thing he noticed wrong was my left side was louder than my right channel. After he left I started looking into it and narrowed it down to one of my amps must be acting up because when I switched speaker cable connections behind the amps it moved to the other side.

Crap! Now what? So I pull the B&K amps to ready them for repair and stick in my old Carver M1.5. Same deal! louder on one side! Now I'm getting pis sed because the only thing that I didn't change were the speaker cables. So I switch the cables and as I do I notice there's arrows on them (directional?) so I hook them up making sure the arrows point towards the speakers and voila! All good. Now I don't know if it was that or maybe the connections were a little dirty or what but regardless there is some sonic variances there.

Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
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    audioluvr wrote: »
    So one of my recent upgrades to the 2 ch system was picking up a set of Wireworld Mini-Eclipse speaker cables. If you haven't upgraded from lamp cord (or Monster Cable in my case) you don't know what you're missing.

    While a regarded audio repair tech was at my place picking up a Carver amp I sold, I showed him my living room system (because that's what us guys do). When I first put on a track of his choice he immediately started looking around and said "oh you put in a surround system huh?". I said "no thats my SDA's you're hearing". Coming from a guy that truly knows how Sonic Holography works that's not bad! So first thing he noticed wrong was my left side was louder than my right channel. After he left I started looking into it and narrowed it down to one of my amps must be acting up because when I switched speaker cable connections behind the amps it moved to the other side.

    Crap! Now what? So I pull the B&K amps to ready them for repair and stick in my old Carver M1.5. Same deal! louder on one side! Now I'm getting pis sed because the only thing that I didn't change were the speaker cables. So I switch the cables and as I do I notice there's arrows on them (directional?) so I hook them up making sure the arrows point towards the speakers and voila! All good. Now I don't know if it was that or maybe the connections were a little dirty or what but regardless there is some sonic variances there.

    Well thanks for sharing! I did the same thing a while ago, and noticed the same thing! :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,434
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    Good to know I'm not imagining it!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
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    Same here with my Shunyata cables. I was a little P.O.ed at both myself and Shunyata, but I guess there is a good technical reason for it.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
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    Directional arrows on cables usually means the way the grain of the copper goes.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
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    On another note this is something I never took notice to and then again I always run the direction correctly. I have all directional cables so I can try this out for myself.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
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    I would think the simple test would be to reverse them again, and see if the problem reappears...
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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
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    I am probably upgrading to those Mini Eclipse. I've got Oasis now so I am not expecting a dramatic improvement although that's what I am hoping for.
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  • delkal
    delkal Posts: 764
    edited February 2019
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    mantis wrote: »
    Directional arrows on cables usually means the way the grain of the copper goes.

    There is no "direction" of electrons in an AC circuit. The electrons go one way at the positive part of the sine wave, then stop when the sine wave crosses zero, then go the other way for the negative. The electrons just wiggle back and forth.

    Directional cables are usually shielded and one side of the shield is connected to ground to drain any interference. Since you only want one side of the shield grounded manufacturers put the ground connected to the amp where it can do the most work. They put an arrow on the cable so you know which side has the grounded shield.

    It is not obvious why reversing the direction of the cable would reduce the sound but you heard what you heard. You might want to play around and check the cables with a multimeter while bending or moving the cables. Its unlikely but you might have a loose connection internally.
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  • ALL212
    ALL212 Posts: 1,556
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    THIS IS WIRE ( read like “ this is SPARTA”)

    Don’t go all scientific and logical here.

    Worse yet these are speaker cables and I’d bet there is no shield. Not saying you didn’t experience the anomaly but going directional as an explanation causes the few neurons left in my brain to implode.
    Aaron
    Enabler Extraordinaire
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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
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    I AM SPARTACUS!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,100
    edited February 2019
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    I think I need to make some popcorn now... anybody want some?
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,044
    edited February 2019
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    Note that I have made no comment to this thread.
    oops.
    check that.
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  • delkal
    delkal Posts: 764
    edited February 2019
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    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    I think I need to make some popcorn now...

    I don't think we need popcorn yet. This didn't degrade to a science vs the art of listening yet. Most popcorn discussions melt down when it gets to the subtle effects a cable can give that other people can't agree on.

    It sounds like the reduced output was instantly obvious (so it is undoubtedly real) to anyone listening. No disagreements there. The next step is to figure out why. Does cable direction matter with volume or was it just increased resistance from somewhere.

    So this thread can still have a happy and informative ending. All we need to know is.......

    What happens if you clean the connections and swap directions back? Does it still reduce the sound?

    Or, even better, what happens when you swap directions on the other channel? Does the volume get lower on that speaker?
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  • smglbrth
    smglbrth Posts: 1,460
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    Ok, now I'm wondering about speaker cable running a certain way. Seems to me that, since I can see the cables (clear jacket), they can run either way. If I look at it one way, they run that way. If I look at it the other way, it runs the other way. Since the cable seems to run both ways the same direction, with the same twist, then what direction should I run them?

    Shoot, I thought that out loud...
    Remember, when you're running from something, you're running to something...-me
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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
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    I installed my battery powered cables backwards because it's easier to check the batteries that way.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,801
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    This is correct.
    Directional cables are usually shielded and one side of the shield is connected to ground to drain any interference. Since you only want one side of the shield grounded manufacturers put the ground connected to the amp where it can do the most work. They put an arrow on the cable so you know which side has the grounded shield.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • polrbehr
    polrbehr Posts: 2,826
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    OK, are HDMI cables shielded that way too? I ask because during a viewing test awhile back I mistakenly had the arrow pointed towards the Xbox 1 that my bro-in-law brought over, and could NOT get my Denon AVR to recognize it. Once the cable was reversed, it worked just fine. IIRC the cable was an AQ 6' Cinnamon...
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,434
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    Could be placebo effect but since I had a witness... I did a little experimenting AFTER cleaning the terminals at my speakers (new gold plated terminals) and the amp (stock gold plated). Using my Dire Strait - Brothers in Arms SACD, one thing I noticed was that centerline of MK's voice moved slightly off center to the direction of the cable that was reversed. Again, could have been the chili I had for lunch, wishful thinking, who the fk knows.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
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    I just saw some XLR's with directional arrows on them, that seems kindda odd.
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  • bikezappa
    bikezappa Posts: 2,463
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    Nature bats last.
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