Would LSI25s be a good fit for me?
nspindel
Posts: 5,343
Currently still running the CRS+/4.1TL pair that I built several years ago. Sublime speakers, but in the new house they’re just too small for the 25’ x 15’ room I now have them in. They run off the VPI 299D amp I got a few years ago, which can run KT88 or EL34 (I use EL34). Here is a review of the amp for more details:
http://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2016/3/30/vpi-299d-integrated-tube-amplifier
I’m definitely NOT looking to part way with this integrated amp!
I’ve always been an SDA guy, I’ve never really investigated the other Polk lines. But this amp won’t have enough power to drive any of the big-boy SDAs that would pump out enough pressure for a room this large.
I’ve got a line on a pair of LSI25 towers, but other than the price being right I’m not sure that they are a good fit.
I’m just using them for music, not any home theater application. I’m not particularly looking to go with a sub, I’d prefer full range towers that can push the low end on their own.
Would the LSI25 fit the bill in a room this large powered off an EL34 amp like I have?
Thanks in advance for the advice!
http://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2016/3/30/vpi-299d-integrated-tube-amplifier
I’m definitely NOT looking to part way with this integrated amp!
I’ve always been an SDA guy, I’ve never really investigated the other Polk lines. But this amp won’t have enough power to drive any of the big-boy SDAs that would pump out enough pressure for a room this large.
I’ve got a line on a pair of LSI25 towers, but other than the price being right I’m not sure that they are a good fit.
I’m just using them for music, not any home theater application. I’m not particularly looking to go with a sub, I’d prefer full range towers that can push the low end on their own.
Would the LSI25 fit the bill in a room this large powered off an EL34 amp like I have?
Thanks in advance for the advice!
Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
Comments
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The LSi line is pretty power hungry, other than the 7s (and they still aren't an especially easy to drive speaker). I don't know how they would work on your tube amp, as I don't know much about it, but I'd assume just by looking at the specs that they would be very underpowered.
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It's not the speakers, it's the amp.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Well remember that tube watts and solid state watts are very different.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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Ain't that different.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Make sure that you have proper space for them. Based on my experience with the LSi15, the side firing woofers of the LSi15 and LSi25 are picky about placement. They need room from the side walls to sound right. Otherwise they can get muddy. Placed right, they really do sound good.Stan
Main 2ch:
Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.
HT:
Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60
Other stuff:
Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601 -
I have the lsi25 and 3.1tl. The 3.1 mid and top end just pop out at you where the 25 is a bit more directional on where the sound comes from. Bass, to me the 25's have a bit more bottom end or perceived bottom end. The top end, after i replaced the tweeters on the 3.1 is still a toss up. Both are good just different presentations. The 25's are a little darker but smoother sounding and very easy to listen to.
What kind of music do you listen to?Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
Mainly rock and blues but I’ll listen to just about anything. I listen to plenty of jazz and classical.
I thought about 3.1s but rarely see them for sale.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
For me, it is a toss up. Both speakers sound good but just completely different sound. I like more of a hit in bass where my wife likes less bass, more on the mid bloom so to her she likes the 3.1's a little better where I lean toward the 25's. Or I add a sub into the mix on the 3.1 to help give it more of a hit that I like. I keep bouncing between them. If you can get the 25's at a price where if you don't like them you can flip them, why not give them a try. If you are used to SDA's and you do get them, give them a few days to get used to the sound. The SDA are more efficient so you might need to turn it up a hair to get the same volume out of the 25's.
The built in amps on the 25's do stay slightly warm even on standby mode. I actually turn them completely off when not in use or during the week since I do a lot of my listening on the weekends.
The VPI 299D amp looks like an awesome unit! And 4 ohm compatible.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
About 7 years back my wife and I hatched a plan to sell our house and head south to Florida, the plan being to downsize to an apartment. Getting ready for the downsizing, I sold my 1Cs and rebuilt the CRS+ pair into the 4.1TLs that I have right now. I had a small music room in the old house, and the 1Cs were probably a bit overkill for the room but the 4.1s were perfect. When we moved south they were great in the apartment and the condo we bought a year later. But then we re-upsized and bought a house even bigger than the one we sold up north. I've got an awesome room now, far larger than the one I had up north. Besides the 25'x15' footprint it also has a 9' tray ceiling. Sadly, the 4.1s just aren't a match for the room. I'm using them, but the bass is not very impactful without cranking the volume louder than I'd prefer.
As for the amp, VPI announced the product around the same time I was prepping for my move, and I knew that if the sound quality was as good as the list of features, it would be a no-brainer product for me. VPI's launch of the amp was delayed due to other higher priority projects, but when it was released I visited their headquarters in New Jersey and had a listen. Then I headed back to Florida, sold two VPI turntables, my Krell amp, my Dared MC-7P tubed phono/pre, my headphone amp/dac/power supply stack, along with a whole bunch of tubes and cables. I rolled all that cash into the VPI amp and a Prime turntable. It was an absolutely perfect rig for apartment living.
Now with the larger room, I'm searching for a pair of speakers that will fill the room better. But I really want to keep the VPI amp, the alternative would mean going back to multiple components, cables, and a bigger rack to accommodate it all. So the search is for speakers that would work well with the amount of power I have.
I like the idea of the powered subwoofers in the LSI25, that should get me to the bass response I'm looking for without needing more amplification. But I've been an SDA guy since 1989 (wow, 30 years!) and I'm really not at all familiar with the differences in sound signatures.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Another speaker that might work would be Definitive tech, mythos st or ST-L depending on your price range. A little more efficient and easier to drive vs the lsi25. They also have a bit more mid presence vs the lsi25. Depending on your taste and how reflective things are in the room, they also might be a good choice. Depends on your taste.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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Why not just add a sub?that should get me to the bass response I'm looking for without needing more amplification. But I've been an SDA guy since 1989 (wow, 30 years!) and I'm really not at all familiar with the differences in sound signatures.
Maybe I missed this, but if all you need is better bass response.... why not just add a subwoofer to handle that lower end stuff?
I know SteveinAZ added a SVS to his setup a couple years back for the same reason.
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
My amp doesn’t have an output for a subGood music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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Speaker level sub. So amp to the sub, uses the crossover built into the sub, then out to the speakers.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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Speaker level sub. So amp to the sub, uses the crossover built into the sub, then out to the speakers.
Will that work with SDA's? -
So filtering out all the bass from my SDAs? Not liking the idea of that.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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You know what, I am not sure how good that would work with SDA's. Mine is crossed over electronic not at speaker level. I have not tried it speaker level on the SDA.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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Speaker level sub. So amp to the sub, uses the crossover built into the sub, then out to the speakers.
Or just use a Y Adapter to split the RCA out of pre-amp and use the built in crossover on the plate amp..... As long as the sub you buy has RCA inputs and a LFE input, youd be fine. Then you can just have the sub come in where you need it and you'd be getting bass from CRS + Sub up to the crossover point.
Yes, you'd need a few more cables (2 Y cables + 2 RCA cables to your sub), but they needn't be super pricey ones (MIT or otherwise) for your sub."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
So filtering out all the bass from my SDAs? Not liking the idea of that.
We filtered out deep bass from our smaller set of SDA's,(the 3.1's) I think 80hz was the number used, and if anything it helped the SDA's sound more open and clean.
Removing the deep bass and allowing a dedicated subs and amp to reproduce those sounds, was a nice improvement.
The 3.1's were nice bass wise as is, but it just altered the clarity and we found 2 larger subs were more adjustable to level and so on.
Our bigger SDA's we have not tried this though. -
EndersShadow wrote: »Speaker level sub. So amp to the sub, uses the crossover built into the sub, then out to the speakers.
Or just use a Y Adapter to split the RCA out of pre-amp and use the built in crossover on the plate amp..... As long as the sub you buy has RCA inputs and a LFE input, youd be fine. Then you can just have the sub come in where you need it and you'd be getting bass from CRS + Sub up to the crossover point.
Yes, you'd need a few more cables (2 Y cables + 2 RCA cables to your sub), but they needn't be super pricey ones (MIT or otherwise) for your sub.
No can do with his VPI 299D. It's an integrated with no pre-outs. -
Ahhhh...... then darned.... unless you used two sets of speaker cables.
1 into SDAs, 1 into speaker inputs on sub plate amp. Then just as before adjust crossover on plate amp, but your still getting full range to your SDAs...."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »Ahhhh...... then darned.... unless you used two sets of speaker cables.
1 into SDAs, 1 into speaker inputs on sub plate amp. Then just as before adjust crossover on plate amp, but your still getting full range to your SDAs....
This is the preferred method I am told by audio vampires FYI...Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
EndersShadow wrote: »Ahhhh...... then darned.... unless you used two sets of speaker cables.
1 into SDAs, 1 into speaker inputs on sub plate amp. Then just as before adjust crossover on plate amp, but your still getting full range to your SDAs....
How does this affect the overall impedance that my amp would see?
Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
I’m definitely NOT looking to part way with this integrated amp!
I’ve got a line on a pair of LSI25 towers, but other than the price being right I’m not sure that they are a good fit.
Would the LSI25 fit the bill in a room this large powered off an EL34 amp like I have?
Thanks in advance for the advice!
Congrats on that amp. Being a VPI owner (HW-19/Mk4), I had my eyes on that amp, as it seemed like a great design. I'm glad it's working for you.
I've never heard the SDAs, and own the LSi15s. I recently threw more amplification into mine and they really open up when pushed as others have said (and am planning on adding more). I would ask someone who knows tube amps as to whether the watts put out by the VPI would align - I only know that tube watts and SS watts are not the same.
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(First off, to others on this board; when I marked my LSi25s as sold, the guy hadn't come yet. When he did come, he didn't take them, but Ken had already marked them as sold, so I decided to let it be because, most likely, no one here would buy them. Neil found my ad on Craigslist, and we figured out who each other were.)
It was great meeting you Neil, and I hope you enjoy those speakers! -
Thanks Micah. Great meeting you as well, and keep on enjoying the audio bug! I'm looking forward to getting these speakers back into top shape, it'll be a fun project. I haven't even had time to plug them in yet, but I'll get busy with them in the not too distant future.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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FYI, I brought my VPI 299D with me to Micah's house to audition the speakers first before I grabbed them. It had no problem whatsoever driving them with authority. 38 watts can go a long way!Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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I have the LSi25’s
And would never purchase them for a dedicated 2 chl system2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »I have the LSi25’s
And would never purchase them for a dedicated 2 chl system
Why is that? -
MY .02....Look for an easier to drive, more efficient speaker. Legacy speakers would fit that bill, and more musical for 2 channel than the Polks.
The LSI sound in general is more laid back, the SDA's sound your used to is more ….I dunno...musical ?....than the LSI's. Now the LSIM's may be a better match. Better sound over the LSI series, and easier to drive. 705'S Would be up your alley. -
I think the LSI25's are a very nice capable 2 channel speakers in their own right. The way they are crossover over vs the LSI15's is they have a better mid range response. They seem to allow the Subwoofers built in to handle more of the lower end then the LSI15's did. I compared the 2 directly against each other and the LSI25's are overall a much better sounding speaker.
I don't see why anyone would not use them for 2 channel music even if they are used in a 2 channel only rig. They are very pleasing to listen to , they have built in subs the dig pretty low, the bass can be dialed in to perfection due to room placement and back splash off the back wall or side walls.
Balancing the bass will be a challenge but a fun one at that. Test CD would be great with a sweep so you can SPL them to perfection.
If you live near me my man, I'll come over and help you dial them in.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
