B&K Components Reference 4430 vs New Outlaw 5000

Milito
Milito Posts: 1,907
Which 3 channel amp would you pick to go with my two S55's and my S30 and why.

What would be a good price on the B&K Components Reference 4430?

Thanks, I'll still looking for an amp.
Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.

Comments

  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,952
    edited December 2018
    I have a very similar amp, B&K TX4430. I am really not sure what the difference is between it and the reference lol. Great amp, plenty of power, warm sound with great bass. The only downside is that it is from the late 90s, might need servicing soon (caps mainly). I got mine for what I think was a solid price, around $350 shipped in the original box.

    I haven't heard the outlaw. Main difference is five channels instead of three, a little less power, and I would guess its a little less warm sounding and slight more analytical, but that is MERELY a guess. Hopefully some owners will chime in...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • Milito
    Milito Posts: 1,907
    edited December 2018
    Thanks for the reply.

    Yea I saw a 4430 on a site and he wanted $500 plus shipping which I thought was high, but I wasn't sure. The reference has trigger connections. I'd like an amp to drive my 3 front channels.

    How much does it cost for caps (ballpark) if it needed some?
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,952
    edited December 2018
    Milito wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply.

    Yea I saw a 4430 on a site and he wanted $500 plus shipping which I thought was high, but I wasn't sure. The reference has trigger connections. I'd like an amp to drive my 3 front channels.

    How much does it cost for caps (ballpark) if it needed some?

    I think that's too high given the age and that its only 3 channels.

    I am really not sure about the cost of recapping. I don't think the caps themselves are that expensive, its labor that gets you. I don't think its a difficult job if you know how to solder or have a friend with skills. I, unfortunately, have neither friends nor skills :'(
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • Milito
    Milito Posts: 1,907
    edited December 2018
    I can solder some as I have done it in the pass on items, but never electronics.

    Thanks again.
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    The outlaw would be the better choice in this scenario. Your speakers are very easy to drive anyway, and the Outlaw is newer.

    You could get away with a 2 channel amp too and let the receiver handle that small S30 center.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
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    lsi 9's
  • Milito
    Milito Posts: 1,907
    Yea I saw a B&K Reference 200.2 I liked, but it had already been sold. I'm going to also see if the Outlaw 5000 goes back on sale for Christmas if I don't find anything before then.
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,032
    DSkip wrote: »
    I know it will probably be above your budget but I’ll have a silver Reference 200.7 available soon.
    HMMM!!! :#

    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • I’ve noticed the price on the Outlaw keeps going up. Maybe a supply and demand thing going on here. It’s a good amp and well worth the money and I know you’ve been asking about it for a while. I wouldn’t hesitate placing an order.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • Milito
    Milito Posts: 1,907
    If I don't run across a deal on a used amp before Christmas, I'll probably get the Outlaw.

    Thanks all for the feedback.
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
  • Just throwing this out there. This would be more in line with the B&K, although wanting way too much imo. These HCA Parasounds hold up pretty well even as they age. This one looks to have been very well taken care of.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Parasound-HCA-2003-3-Channel-Amplifier-Excellent-Condition/323580120935?hash=item4b56e0cf67:g:VEAAAOSwWgdb1mAv:rk:2:pf:0
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
  • Milito
    Milito Posts: 1,907
    I appreciate the link, but that is more than I want to spend.
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,454
    Choice of a new Outlaw or get a 10+ year old used. For me it would be the new outlaw.

    When I was looking for an amp I considered the Outlaw 5000. Nice amp and if it's only driving 3 speakers it will have more power than the 120W it is rated at. Some of the reviews I read on it said the 120w rating was extremely conservative.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
    Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
    Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
    Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • Milito
    Milito Posts: 1,907
    edited December 2018
    I've read the same review several times and read that about it driving 3 speakers and measuring higher output than the listing rating. The age of the other amps is a concern for me.
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
  • Correct it’s known to do 135 per channel all channels driven and about 175 with two channels driven.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • Milito
    Milito Posts: 1,907
    Well I finally made a decision and just ordered an Outlaw 5000.

    Thanks everyone for all of the input helping me make a decision as it was a big help.
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
  • Congrats! It’s a fine choice.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • Milito
    Milito Posts: 1,907
    Thanks.
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
  • Milito
    Milito Posts: 1,907
    I got my 5000 yesterday and connected everything. I had some cheap interconnects so I'm using them till I can get some better ones after the holidays.

    The sound is a little cleaner and not as strained at higher volumes and bass is a little better. Overall the music just sounds better and watching TV, the voices are a little clearer. I don't think I can really judge it yet till I get better interconnects.
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,454
    Look at the SVS SoundPath https://www.svsound.com/products/soundpath-rca-audio-interconnect-cable
    Nice cable. I couldn't find any real bad reviews on them.

    I was looking at these https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AQBMII
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
    Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
    Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
    Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,308
    Milito wrote: »
    I got my 5000 yesterday and connected everything. I had some cheap interconnects so I'm using them till I can get some better ones after the holidays.

    The sound is a little cleaner and not as strained at higher volumes and bass is a little better. Overall the music just sounds better and watching TV, the voices are a little clearer. I don't think I can really judge it yet till I get better interconnects.

    Even without nicer interconnects and speaker cables, you should notice that your speakers hit with greater authority, and separation with an amp, and you should notice less congestion at higher listening levels. All of that and more will get better with cumulative upgrade to quality cables when you're able.

    I may have missed it, but what are you using for the front end?
    Did you have an amp at all before, or was this all out over an AVR or surround processor?

    I disabled signatures.
  • Milito
    Milito Posts: 1,907
    edited December 2018
    Thanks mrloren, I was also looking at the audioquest ones. Let me know if you try them.

    Scott I have noticed what you are talking about as the overall sound is better. I using a Yamaha 2070 on the front in a 3:1 setup.
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,308
    Aventage 2070, Nice!

    No secret I'm a B&K fan, but given the age of the earlier amps and possibility for needing a little rehab, I don't think you went wrong on the Outlaw, especially wanting to power all three fronts. 3ch B&Ks seem a bit rare.

    I imagine that Outlaw amp is being right cheeky to your S55s.
    I'd be curious to hear how they do without your sub, even, mains only.

    What kind of music are you playing with them?
    You got the Yamaha in direct?
    How are you getting music to it, and what do you like to listen to?

    Everyone needs a reference playlist, man B)

    Not sure what you like, but here's one for you. Enjoying a bluesy eve here...
    (note: any hum is most likely not your speakers or gear)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH_Z8xb2gvs

    I disabled signatures.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,477
    mrloren wrote: »

    That cable is pretty darned good. It is basically Audioquest king cobra in a different jacket

  • Milito
    Milito Posts: 1,907
    edited December 2018
    I haven't tried it without my sub and I need to run YPAO again since I just installed the amp yesterday. My wife has all of her Christmas stuff in the way now so I'll wait till after Christmas to play with settings and setup.

    I listen to Rock, Country, Soul, Motown and some of the current music, but not much as I like a lot of the old music better. I have it all converted to flac on a usb 128GB stick. My wife listens to Pandora mainly.

    I have played the Yamaha in direct also.

    Good tune, I need to listen to more Blues.

    I thought hard about getting a B&K, even bid on a few at the start of my hunt for an amp. However them being that old was a concern and I decided I wanted to run all 3 channels off one amp.
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,454
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    mrloren wrote: »

    That cable is pretty darned good. It is basically Audioquest king cobra in a different jacket

    Yeah I want to give them a try but I need to save for a bit and the SVS cables are working very goof

    Here is my kind of blues
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-wwglkifvg
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
    Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
    Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
    Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music