Race car guys lets talk about my last run.
mantis
Posts: 17,194
Hello all,
I have a 2017 Durango R/T with a 5.7L Hemi engine. All wheel drive. The first time I took it to the track I had a 1/8 tank of 89 octane and 1/8 tank of 91 From Sunoco. The 89 was from Giant food stores gas station. It was 88 degrees out and dropped to about 81 later that night. I got off 2 runs 1st run was 14.8 @ 94 and second was 14.6@95 I was very happy with those runs as they are right in line with the Magazine numbers of an average 14.7@95. I also did that with just one Mod a K&N drop in air filter.
I just went to the track yesterday at the spare of a moment learning they had test n tune which they usually don't on weekends which sucks. This is Atco Dragway park in NJ.
The temp was 51 and sunny and I had the exact configuration with just the K&N air filter as my only mod. But I changed up the gas. I had 1/8 tank of Giant gas and now I tried 93 Octane from Sunoco 1/8 tank. Both times running 1/4 tank of gas at the track.
I ran my first run at 14.3@95 and then second pass 14.1@96 which is insane. Years ago I would have to do a bunch of small mod's to pick up that much time. My son video taped my second run which I wish he would have got both runs but I'm just happy to have the best run out fo the 2. It was insanely crowed there as when I got there at 12pm there was already over 250 Test N Tune cars and they have bracket racing so getting off runs was a few hours in between.
Check out the following pic's and I'll also post the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-kxITS8wKM
I have a 2017 Durango R/T with a 5.7L Hemi engine. All wheel drive. The first time I took it to the track I had a 1/8 tank of 89 octane and 1/8 tank of 91 From Sunoco. The 89 was from Giant food stores gas station. It was 88 degrees out and dropped to about 81 later that night. I got off 2 runs 1st run was 14.8 @ 94 and second was 14.6@95 I was very happy with those runs as they are right in line with the Magazine numbers of an average 14.7@95. I also did that with just one Mod a K&N drop in air filter.
I just went to the track yesterday at the spare of a moment learning they had test n tune which they usually don't on weekends which sucks. This is Atco Dragway park in NJ.
The temp was 51 and sunny and I had the exact configuration with just the K&N air filter as my only mod. But I changed up the gas. I had 1/8 tank of Giant gas and now I tried 93 Octane from Sunoco 1/8 tank. Both times running 1/4 tank of gas at the track.
I ran my first run at 14.3@95 and then second pass 14.1@96 which is insane. Years ago I would have to do a bunch of small mod's to pick up that much time. My son video taped my second run which I wish he would have got both runs but I'm just happy to have the best run out fo the 2. It was insanely crowed there as when I got there at 12pm there was already over 250 Test N Tune cars and they have bracket racing so getting off runs was a few hours in between.
Check out the following pic's and I'll also post the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-kxITS8wKM Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
Comments
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93 Octane would give you more hp along with the cooler temps. Also the track conditions could have been better.
Another trick you can do is up the tire pressure in your front tires and it will give them less rolling resistance.Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables. -
How did your 60' times compare to the previous runs. The fact your top end speed is about the same means you're putting down about the same HP.
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I'd say the cold air was more of a factor than the gas. What does the manual call for with gas ? 87-89?
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The persistent myth that octane produces horsepower. Octane does not produce energy.
I am thinking that the later runs you were feeling more in tune (pun intended). I would say that you were the reason for the better times.
Post edited by motorhead43026 onThe best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
Higher octane should only help if you have higher compression
I would agree it was the air temp and even the air quality that helped the ET -
Every thing matters...…………….
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^^lets see, where have I heard that before....hmmmmmmThe best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
Higher octane prevents misfires.
That's it's only purpose.
Cooler denser air means the computer would mix in more gas.
More air and fuel=more HP. So cooler with the K&N both worked
to help out. That's why nitrious and superchangers work well
together. The nitrious cools down the heated air.
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
I wouldn't shop there anymore. Their receipts don't add up properly.
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I'm not saying Octane equals more power, I think it allowed the engine to run at it's best.93 Octane would give you more hp along with the cooler temps. Also the track conditions could have been better.
Another trick you can do is up the tire pressure in your front tires and it will give them less rolling resistance.
I ran with he front tires at 36 PSI and the rears at 35 PSI even though it's all wheel drive.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
How did your 60' times compare to the previous runs. The fact your top end speed is about the same means you're putting down about the same HP.
All improved . Top speed went from 94 to 96 MPHDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
The Manual says 89 but you can use 87. I never run 87 I always run 89. But when I put 91 or 93 it seems to run smoother and stronger like the 89 is holding it back.I'd say the cold air was more of a factor than the gas. What does the manual call for with gas ? 87-89?Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I also believe the denser air was a factor, but can also play just slightly to a disadvantage. Cool air being denser, is also harder to punch a hole through...and the Durango likely has the aerodynamics of a brick. However 51 deg air is prob a nice happy medium for the denser charge without being too much drag from aerodynamics.
That being said, the 93 octane, depending on your engines software, can also help if the PCM will increase the timing advance.
Some vehicles, I know my GM does, has a low and high octane map from the factory. I don't know about your Dodge, but I've heard this from a few GM techs so dont shoot the messenger, if you fill up so many gallons, the PCM will see that you may have either used a low or high octane fuel and will give the engine a chance on the high octane and allow more timing.
If the PCM sees a lot of knocking, it will resort to the lower octane map and this is to only allow for a narrower amount of parameters for the PCM to work with for smoother engine control.
87 octane burns faster than 93, increasing chance of detonation. More ignition advance will give you more power to a certain point, but too much ign r-e-t-a-r-d will slow you down at higher RPM's.
Pretty good numbers for sure! -
motorhead43026 wrote: »The persistent myth that octane produces horsepower. Octane does not produce energy.
I am thinking that the later runs you were feeling more in tune (pun intended). I would say that you were the reason for the better times.
I don't think Octane produces HP I think it allows the engine to run at it's best. Higher Octane burns slower and lower octane burns faster with less energy for lower compression engines. Higher Compression engines or Turbo/ Supercharged engines require high Octane to produce maximum power without retarding the timing.
But I do agree with you , I was on point with my launch. I allow the truck to shift for itself as I can't outshift the 8 speed German transmission. I put it in Sports mode , turn off all drivers assists and rip. I don't touch the paddle shifters unless I'm on a back road having fun.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Like gmcman said, if the engine software will increase the timing advance with the higher octane gas it can result in more power.Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
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nice run, congrats
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The only time the timing is changed, is when a spark knock (pre ignition)/detonation condition occurs. The computer does not sense Octane ratings and adjust accordingly. In other words the ignition will be advanced just as much with lower octane fuel as high octane, that is as long as there is no knock detected.The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
The Mustang smoked ya.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I did some research on the Hemi computer. It does not advance the timing on higher octane fuel. Some high end cars might but not his SUV.
However if you can advance the timing, higher octane fuels are more able to resist pinging, which means that the spark timing can be more advanced, which generally means more power.Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables. -
motorhead43026 wrote: »The computer does not sense Octane ratings and adjust accordingly.
I agree, hope that's not what it sounded like I was saying if that's regarding my statement.
In regards to the software that incorporates different maps, when you fill up with 87, the PCM does not know what octane you put in, but will know based on the amount of pinging if a lower octane is used. The PCM will remember what settings it used and try to provide as much advance as possible in some situations...ie, under large loads but at higher RPM's.
If you fill up with 93, the PCM will again try to advance the timing and if the pinging is minimal then it will incorporate the higher octane map.
If you fill up with 87, then drive it hard, it will r-e-t-a-r-d the timing like you said but after awhile, it will simply not provide higher advanced settings and will make it easier for the PCM to adjust to changing conditions.
This isn't the same with all vehicles.motorhead43026 wrote: »In other words the ignition will be advanced just as much with lower octane fuel as high octane, that is as long as there is no knock detected.
This is again the case with many vehicles, but with different maps, it's easier for the computer to adjust when the parameters are set closer together and not having such a wide range of options.
The knock sensors are very good, most pinging is inperceivable.
Back in the day, with adjusting the distributor for the timing, I remember setting the advance and never had an issue with 93. However go with some 87 and it would ping like crazy. There is a limit to what you can do and the software with different maps, likely lockout the timing advance values that result in excessive pinging. Again, not the same with all vehicles.
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Dodge makes for the SRT model a light weight package. This includes a 3rd row delete which instead of seats you just get storage bins under a flat cover which weighs less. Then there is the light weight Spare. Yes I have a full size spare and dropping it would probably allow me to break into the 13.99. I'm already insanely happy with a 14.1 as in stock form shouldn't be that quick. I'm a member in the Dodge durango Forum and I have the fastest stock time out of everyone. LOL I love that.Cooler air usually contains more oxygen. That combined with low humidity and you have the perfect conditions for engine combustion. High humidity contains more water vapor, and water doesn't burn very well.
You're close to breaking the 13.99 second barrier. Ditch that spare tire and you might just get there.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
It's test N tune so they don't pair you up with a good race. You can end up racing a 10 second car with a 14 second car. I ended up racing a 11 second highly modified Mustang with Slicks. It really doesn't matter at all as I'm racing myself.The Mustang smoked ya.
But IF I was racing him, he murdered me LOL.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I plan on going down with a 1/4 tank of 89 Octane which is what Dodge suggests using. If I run the same times then I know the higher octane fuel didn't preserve my power. If I can get full 100% power out of 89 octane why bother to pay the extra cents per gallon right?I did some research on the Hemi computer. It does not advance the timing on higher octane fuel. Some high end cars might but not his SUV.
However if you can advance the timing, higher octane fuels are more able to resist pinging, which means that the spark timing can be more advanced, which generally means more power.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Right. BTW, Congrats on being the fastest on the Dodge Durango Forum.Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
