Nike' and Kapernick together now.

15681011

Comments

  • tonyb wrote: »
    As much as I'd like to comment on this, this thread is doomed with the simple mention of Kapernick.

    Yes it is with no agreement!
    "Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"


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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    edited September 2018
    Never mind. Post deleted. Not worth my time.

    Tom

    Post edited by treitz3 on
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  • Maybe some of those up thread crowing about how much Nike stock lost in value yesterday may not be aware that the company is into an aggressive stock buy back plan.

    Perhaps this campaign is multidimensional planning...

    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    la2vegas wrote: »
    I have black friends too so I'm not a racist.

    I'll take that as a shot at calling me a racist. Which if you don't mind then, explain to me what I said is racist and absent of fact.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Me thinks that if people would stop referring to folks as black, Latino, Asian, Muslim or white, some of the racism and rhetoric would simmer down.
    Tom

    Tom makes an excellent point here. At a time in our history that we have put the racism of the 50's and 60's behind us, it is not the whites seeking to divide people by color. Who are the ones screaming for some sort of special treatment for their race ? Who are the ones drawing attention to the color of their skin when we as a country seek to become color blind ? Listen to the news and you'll see your answers.

    The same people who scream about equality, are the same ones fighting against it. Even colleges today seek to divide kids by their color, political views, gender. Open your ears and listen, all you hear is hate. Hate for whites, hate for the country, hate for our culture and laws. The same people spouting this hate, are the same ones who also say they want to make the country better....by dividing us ?

    Some might say, this screaming of hate is simply justice wanted for past crimes. Impossible to do, and if we did we'd also have to demand justice for everything else. Almost every race in history has foregone racism, social injustices, slavery. Germans, Italians, Jews, Irish, Polish, Mexicans, Asians, etc.

    Anyone see or hear the Asians demanding reparations ? Any other race ? No, because they've all moved on, integrated into our society and culture while still retaining their own heritage and parts of their own culture. They didn't have key leaders of their race, pushing for special treatments to separate them from the rest. They didn't have leaders who profited off keeping their grievances alive. Didn't push for laws to lower test scores for their race so they can have access to better jobs. You didn't see policy that said you had to hire x amount of Italians,Irish,Jews, etc., in the name of diversity or representing the community.

    How is it, that every race that has immigrated here, has seemed to overcome the inherit biases of others and still flourish ? Without special treatment yet.

    If you want to be seen by others, not for the color of your skin, but by the content of your character, stop drawing attention to the color of your skin then. Stop demanding your skin color dictates special treatments. Would most not agree with that ?
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    The cake dude, glad he won, though it was a small win. Constitution also grants people the right of association. I don't have to associate with you for any reason I see fit.
    Example....someone walks into a joint with a MAGA hat on, owner askes them to leave. He has every right to do so.

    My questions is....does that also apply to someone offended by an Obama Hat ? It should, right ?

    ….AND IF YOU AGREE WITH THE ABOVE, then the Baker has right to associate with those that do not offend him. End of story.
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  • monepolk
    monepolk Posts: 1,140
    If I remember correctly Japanese Americans did receive reparations for their internment.
  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
    F1nut wrote: »
    I believe if you can't stand to honor the flag and National Anthem of your country, leave because you don't deserve to live in it.

    Standard nationalistic dogma. Try and see the forrest before the trees Jessie.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Before we get too far off topic, I still haven't seen anyone point me to this great oppression today in America . Which means a few things....

    A There is none
    B There is so little of it, hard to track down and post it here.

    C Just another money making scam, or to keep the grievance industry alive.

    or

    D- all of the above.

    I'll go with....all of the above. So now that we have established this great oppression is bunk, then so is CK, and Nike's promo. Next...…

    See how easy that was, and we kept it civil.
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  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
    tonyb wrote: »
    Before we get too far off topic, I still haven't seen anyone point me to this great oppression today in America . Which means a few things....

    A There is none
    B There is so little of it, hard to track down and post it here.

    C Just another money making scam, or to keep the grievance industry alive.

    or

    D- all of the above.

    I'll go with....all of the above. So now that we have established this great oppression is bunk, then so is CK, and Nike's promo. Next...…

    See how easy that was, and we kept it civil.

    Its not about a great oppression, its a myriad of things that obviously dont affect you. Thats why you cant see it.
  • monepolk
    monepolk Posts: 1,140
    I love how people haven't experienced it can tell me what experience isn't real.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    deronb1 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    Before we get too far off topic, I still haven't seen anyone point me to this great oppression today in America . Which means a few things....

    A There is none
    B There is so little of it, hard to track down and post it here.

    C Just another money making scam, or to keep the grievance industry alive.

    or

    D- all of the above.

    I'll go with....all of the above. So now that we have established this great oppression is bunk, then so is CK, and Nike's promo. Next...…

    See how easy that was, and we kept it civil.

    Its not about a great oppression, its a myriad of things that obviously dont affect you. Thats why you cant see it.

    Sure it is, CK said so himself. If you don't think so, you'd better go back and read his statements.

    I've never experienced shooting heroin in my arm either, doesn't mean I shouldn't have an opinion on why it's wrong.
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  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,021
    monepolk wrote: »
    I love how people haven't experienced it can tell me what experience isn't real.

    Honest question: Are some of the "experiences" perceived and not real (by "not real" I mean they happen to everyone)?

    For example: I was pulled over a couple of years ago and the cop asked me if I'd been drinking. Said that he'd been observing me for a while and that I was swerving. I'd had nothing to drink but iced tea, I was not swerving (as verified by my wife who was in the car with me), and I'm pretty sure he had not been behind me for very long. If I weren't white couldn't I very easily say that I was pulled over for no reason other than the color of my skin (racially profiled)?
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,892
    edited September 2018
    ^^may be the cop thought you were other than white? That is until you were pulled over and they discovered differently.
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    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    ^^may be the cop thought you were other than white? That is until you were pulled over and they discovered differently.

    Maybe, won't say it never happens, but show me the systemic problem that I keep asking for.

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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited September 2018
    F1nut wrote: »
    I believe if you can't stand to honor the flag and National Anthem of your country, leave because you don't deserve to live in it.

    I agree all should love this Country, feel as if they belong, should be proud, patriotic, and should stand and salute the flag.

    However, walk a mile in the shoes of a black person. We walk around proud to be an American but some encounter prejudice daily.

    Even trivial things like the time years ago I was visiting family in Tennessee. There was an audio shop in a nearby town that carried Focal Expert raw car audio drivers that I wanted to check out. I asked my cousin about directions and he gave me a certain kind of look. Me being from the North and all. I had no idea about some of thing things that still go on in the South. He asked if I really wanted to go there to be careful and definitely get back before night. He told me in that small town as well as others in the area , the cops pull him over without fail. I guess many of these small towns in the South are good old boy historic sundown towns that still give blacks a hard time. I did make it to the shop and the guys there looked a little surprised by my presence. But they were nice and helpful and did not have the speakers in stock. They had great things to say about the Focal stuff so I paid for them in full, they ordered them and had them direct shipped. Thank God, I did not encounter any rogue cops or racism. All just have to give all a chance!

    So, you are free to form your own opinion and beliefs. However, American has not fully cleansed itself yet. We still have some growing to do. If you can, just take a look on the other side and realize that not every American experience is the same. Racism is still alive. As a very small minute example, I've personally been call the "N" word by two kids. This was around early '90's. I just happen to be with a friend who was white and we were riding our bikes in the city of Grosse Point, MI. Its a more affluent city made up of about 90% whites. The city borders the Northeast corner of Detroit (78% black) where I lived at the time and only ten minutes away. WHAT THE HELL ARE THESE PARENTS TEACHING THEIR KIDS? Its baffling and absurd to me that folks living right next door to a major city would have issue with people of color.


    I'll repost this link that better articulates how some feel at times based on their experiences. NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE HOLDING ON TO BLAME TACTICS. All of the blacks that I know that have tried to better themselves would love life in the USA even more if there was true equality.

    "Please Stop Defending Colin Kaepernick. You’re Doing It Wrong"
    https://www.theroot.com/please-stop-defending-colin-kaepernick-youre-doing-it-1818999019

    The article list this quote by Dr. King that pretty much sums up what blacks have been told about their protests since the very beginning.
    I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will.

    —MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., “LETTER FROM BIRMINGHAM JAIL,” APRIL 16, 1963

    Post edited by WLDock on
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,892
    edited September 2018
    tonyb wrote: »
    ^^may be the cop thought you were other than white? That is until you were pulled over and they discovered differently.

    Maybe, won't say it never happens, but show me the systemic problem that I keep asking for.

    My reply was to PSOVLSK. I don't owe you an answer on anything. In fact I have not until now engaged you in any way concerning this subject, nice try though.
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    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,892
    edited September 2018
    In 1971 I lived for a year in the Atlanta Metro area. I a young long haired free spirit driving a 1967 VW, all decked out in window and bumper stickers the establishment found offensive. The one that caught the most unwanted attention was the "Black Power" bumper sticker, I was always getting pulled over. I finally came to the conclusion that may be the BP bumper sticker was drawing to much unwanted attention. I begrudgingly removed it and was not harassed hardly at all after that. Coincidence, I don't think so.

    Now I know this was a long time ago, but I wonder today how much has changed.

    Oh, btw I am white. Just in case that was not obvious.
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    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    tonyb wrote: »
    Before we get too far off topic, I still haven't seen anyone point me to this great oppression today in America . Which means a few things....
    A There is none
    B There is so little of it, hard to track down and post it here.
    C Just another money making scam, or to keep the grievance industry alive.
    or
    D- all of the above.
    I'll go with....all of the above. So now that we have established this great oppression is bunk, then so is CK, and Nike's promo. Next...…

    See how easy that was, and we kept it civil.
    Tony, you are right about some of what you say and wrong about other points. There are for sure some that are after the money...I will agree on that. However, you don't have to look at systemic oppression from the viewpoint of just blacks who have been going through this for centuries. Take a look at it from the viewpoint of other minorities like Native Americans, or those who are Muslim, etc. Its so widespread in many different facets. Even things that one would not think of like real estate. Take the area Prince George's County, Maryland. One of the more affluent areas for blacks in the USA. For ages their property values were less than the surrounding mostly white areas. In more recent years their values are finally rising after a reassessment of the area. Again this is just a small example bias that should not not exists in such an affluent area. There was even segregation practices in the Bowie Town Center area housing development.

    America has more work to do. However, we will never get there if folks fool themselves in believing that everything is OK and the playing field is equal.

    here is my previous post in case you missed it as this post has gotten long!
    WLDock wrote: »
    I whole hearty agree about trash for human being from every race or color.

    As far as your question? Well, its a complex answer ....however Blacks and whites generally see racism in the USA very differently. I can tell that you take the position that many claim the victim and don't take self ownership of the issues in their own communities. There is for sure some truth in this line of thought. No one is claiming that others are 100% responsible for the problems in the community. There needs to be more progress within the black community and all need to get over the past.

    However, there is a ton of research done by PhD's that state that the playing field is still not equal and there are whites that have not progressed in thinking and beliefs. Even after the emancipation the living hell for blacks did not end and there are remnants that haunt our communities today. Yes, I know, No one wants to have this conversation.

    It comes down to what one has experienced and what one believes....and its OK if we disagree. As long as I don't hate you or you don't hate me we can get along.

    IMO, I see nothing wrong with this post. People with different view points NEED to talk in a civil manner. If no one talks then nothing will change! Regardless of our views, most here are common folk that have more similarities about life and happiness than differences.




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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    This is true Ray, but in the end, what dictates all that ?

    Choice....everyone has a choice, the ultimate equalizer. It's the ultimate equality that levels the field. Everyone has one, regardless of race.

    Now, not everyone makes the right choices in life, including myself. The difference is, I don't play victimhood and blame others for my poor choices. Wish I could say the same for others and unfortunately there are far too many who choose that path.

    As far as academia goes, I put little faith in their ability to tell truths and not push agendas. I find it personally hard to listen to anyone who tells me children have a right to pick their gender. The same Academia, who on college campuses think having classes specifically for one race and excluding others is not segregation. The same academia who must have designated areas for free speech. You'll please excuse me if I don't take anything they have to say too seriously.

    I'm looking for examples from normal people, in everyday life, of this great oppression. Most things in life are fairly simple, perception is what can be manipulated, as evident by simply listening to the news/social media these days.

    I will agree, we certainly do have pockets of racism, in every walk of life and in every corner of the country. Tell me where on the planet that doesn't exist ? It is a human behavioral issue bred into people by and for various reasons of which you can never eliminate totally.

    If the goal is to eliminate racism, and I'm making assumptions here, how does drawing attention to ones skin color accomplish that ? How does granting certain races certain privileges over other races work towards becoming color blind, equal ? How does segregating kids in school, or judging entrance to colleges by race work towards any of those goals ?

    Obviously it doesn't, so one must assume then the goal has changed. It is not about removing racism anymore, just the opposite, to keep it alive and well.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    edited September 2018
    And it cuts both ways too Ray. I had a job where I was paid significantly less than the latino’s that made up the bulk of the work force, until I found out about the bonus program they were all a part of and I was not. I was the only advisor on staff that was white, and even given the overwhelming evidence laid out before them, I could not find an attorney willing to take my case....

    Racism happens to everybody, including white people like me. As soon as we accept the fact that all groups are guilty of it the sooner we can fix it.
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    edited September 2018
    Institutional racism was defined by Sir William Macpherson in the 1999 Lawrence report (UK) as: "The collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people."[4][5]

    OK...

    The NFL has helped so many millions of people through employment opportunities starting with designing and constructing stadiums. The multitude of operation jobs running the stadiums and all maintenance keeping them safe. Then the thousands of affiliated Co.s that supply equipment, food, uniforms and then the retail outlets selling everything related to NFL player memorabilia. Millions and millions of beneficial jobs and I think 50% are helping minorities and their families.

    But CK is suing the NFL. :s

    I know he's suing because he thinks his protesting during the anthem and the millions in revenue he's costing the NFL, Years ago and still today and even in the future, shouldn't hinder any team from wanting him on their roster. :|

    I think the NFL is the "most anti-oppression toward any race" company on the planet, as long as you can do your job.

    And CK is suing them?

    He should be thanking them! ;)

    Nike should start their own football league and give CK a quarterback job if it means that much to CK.

    CK wasn't oppressed one day! Maybe some of his buddies were. I read somewhere he's a spokesman for BLM movement too. That movement sprung from a lie about "hands up, don't shoot" from Ferguson.


    Read this;
    https://www.bing.com/search?q=was+colin+kaepernick+adopted+or+fostered&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=20aba44983334797fc843e7e50e97a97&sp=1&qs=AS&pq=was+colin+kaepernick+adopted?&sc=4-29&cvid=20aba44983334797fc843e7e50e97a97&cc=US&setlang=en-US


    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,711
    Take the area Prince George's County, Maryland. One of the more affluent areas for blacks in the USA. For ages their property values were less than the surrounding mostly white areas. In more recent years their values are finally rising after a reassessment of the area. Again this is just a small example bias that should not not exists in such an affluent area.

    Neither should crime rates so high that a shopping mall in business since the '60's had to close or an huge amusement park with security tighter than an airport because of multiple shootings or the multitudes of public officials including school board members guilty of massive corruption. I could go on.
    As a very small minute example, I've personally been call the "N" word by two kids.

    BTW, I've been called the N word and I'm not black. I've also been called a whole lot of other names over the years. Just words.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited September 2018
    And it cuts both ways too Ray. I had a job where I was paid significantly less than the latino’s that made up the bulk of the work force, until I found out about the bonus program they were all a part of and I was not. I was the only advisor on staff that was white, and even given the overwhelming evidence laid out before them, I could not find an attorney willing to take my case....
    ..again, it comes down to one's personal experience. In your very rare case (The wealth of blacks and Latinos is much lower than whites, those are facts) I'm sure you were not too happy about that situation. Now imagine not being offered a job at all, or not being sold a home, or lower property values, not allowed membership to a country club, Pulled over because , followed at a department store, etc, etc, over and over again because of the color of your skin.

    Or simple yet MAJOR things for a child like what happen to my daughter. I relocated to Indiana from MI in '12. The area I first lived in put my kids in a school system that was about 99.9% white. My first choice would have been in a more diverse area but OK, we tried to make the best of things. My Son actually made some friends that he's still is in touch. However, my daughter who is the more talkative one ended up the outcast. She experienced things like being invited to a birthday pool party and was the only black person there of course. OK, not a problem right? Well none of the kids would talk to Her. Not even the birthday girl nor did the parents try to be more inclusive. Well, my wife told her to grab her things and they just left.

    Fast forward to recent years, we moved to a more diverse area /school system. For my daughters 13th birthday party she had a melting pot of friends that came for her sleepover. Black, White, Asian, Latino...those girls partied all night. That is the world I want my kids to know!

    Post edited by WLDock on
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  • Racism happens to everybody, including white people like me. As soon as we accept the fact that all groups are guilty of it the sooner we can fix it.

    It is very unlikely that the average white person will ever encounter a racist incident in their entire life because most white people only live and interact with other white people. Some white people will be individually affected by racism, but racism is not a concern for white people, in the U.S., collectively.

    Racism is the combination of prejudice with the power to have serious detrimental effect on the life of a person of a different race. Without the power aspect, racism, or any other discriminatory -ism can't exist.

    Do some individual non-whites have the power to be racist toward whites? Yes, of course. Does any particular group of non-whites have the collective power to be racist toward whites? No. No way. Non-whites don't collectively control the government, banks, media, and schools.

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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    "Take the area Prince George's County, Maryland. One of the more affluent areas for blacks in the USA. For ages their property values were less than the surrounding mostly white areas. In more recent years their values are finally rising after a reassessment of the area. Again this is just a small example bias that should not not exists in such an affluent area."

    It's a double edged sword, if they assessed their values the same as surrounding white communities, their taxes would go up, right ? Thus you'd hear claims of racism, that the county assessor is picking on them. It's a no win scenario, created and manifested by leaders who at one time probably thought they were doing their people some good, but in the end hurt them.

    No win scenarios is what keeps major investments out of poor communities. Culture contributes to the lack of investment. Crime settles in these communities like a cat in a blanket on a cold winter night.

    To not be poor in America, at least you have only a 3% chance of being poor, if you do these 3 things.

    1- graduate school, could be just H.S. too.

    2.-Work full time

    3. Wait until your married to have babies

    You accomplish those 3 things, and you have less than a 3% chance of being poor in America. In a place such as America, we can't make it any easier because school is free, work is abundant, and the last is a personal choice.

    I might argue my own point and say that all of that is a matter of choice, like I said earlier, it's the great equalizer. How many of these poor communities don't do those 3 things ? 2 things ? Probably all of them. The great boogey man of institutional racism is to me anyway, an excuse for not accomplishing those 3 things. An excuse for bad choices.

    Still, in America....we have ways to overcome bad choices in life, but that requires drive, personal responsibility, respect. Things not overly pushed by some leaders in poor communities. Instead they push identity politics, victimhood mentality, a disservice to the people they serve.

    There is probably not one among us who hasn't made detrimental bad choices in our lives. Yet here we are, better, happier, and not homeless under a bridge somewhere. How did we do that ? What magic formula was used ?

    Drive
    Personal responsibility
    Respect

    You tell me what sections of our society still teach/promote that, and which doesn't, and I'll show you communities that are poor or flourishing.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,760
    edited September 2018
    Tony M wrote: »

    The NFL has helped so many millions of people through employment opportunities starting with designing and constructing stadiums. The multitude of operation jobs running the stadiums and all maintenance keeping them safe. Then the thousands of affiliated Co.s that supply equipment, food, uniforms and then the retail outlets selling everything related to NFL player memorabilia. Millions and millions of beneficial jobs and I think 50% are helping minorities and their families.

    But I could make the same argument about slavery in the antebellum South.

    1. Millions and millions of beneficial jobs for "workers".
    2. Free RELOCATION benefits for "workers".
    3. Free health care for "workers".
    4. Free housing for "workers".
    5. Free food for "workers".
    6. Lifetime employment.
    7. Generous "retirement" benefits.
    8. Millions and millions of beneficial jobs for those in support industries that
    supply goods and services to slave plantations.

    What's not to like? Certainly an institution that offered such outstanding "employee" benefits would be beyond reproach...right?
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    C'mon Ray, even for you, comparing the NFL to slavery is a tremendous stretch.
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