This is very true, and is also why you can't rely on your ears alone for what I'm after. I'll repeat what I said above, the variability in recording and sound quality in general from album to album is more than enough to mask the small gains in going from a 320 MP3 to a 16/44 file.
That is probably true for some recordings and maybe even some genre's of music, but isn't that small gain what most of us in this hobby are looking for?
I mean really, to just say "well it's recorded crappy so might as well get an MP3", it's still degraded vs. the original recording.
I'm not 100% sold on hi rez stuff because of the above, but in many cases I feel the difference is much smaller than going from 320 MP3 to 16/44 file because of the limitations of the source material in some cases. Meaning hi rez may not sound much different than the original because the limitation is the source material not the technology.
But you have to take it on a case by case situation.
MP3's are bad and one should strive to avoid them at all costs if you're serious about audio reproduction. But as always, we are the end consumer and we will always be at the mercy of the production/recording staff. If they produce a poor recording then no amount of tweaking is going to really change that.
I will also say that if something is recorded particularly poorly, I probably wouldn't listen to it all that often, unless it's got other values that help my enjoyment.
H9
Im not sure we are talking about just poorly recorded stuff, but the vast amount of normal and fairly good sounding stuff, either the difference is so small, or maybe it is just up rezzed, or maybe different masterings...or maybe.......
In the end, its hard to say anything for sure about Hi-res, that is an absolute and positive and completely true.
I think a lotta people are just not impressed, with all these uncertainties.
To be honest I think this whole HD thing has been somewhat of a scam from the get go. It meant to be a money grab. Why should extra bits cost more? I'm firmly in the camp that they are just upsampling 16/44 to whatever they can sell for more. Are the masters recorded at 24 bit 32 bit and 96khz or 192 khz? If they are does that really cost more to do? These days in digital all it takes it seems to me is for someone to include the code to trip a light. They are selling you 16/44 with a code to trip the 24/192 light.
Color me sceptical
Throw away all your silly fancypants cables, Ivan.
To be honest I think this whole HD thing has been somewhat of a scam from the get go. It meant to be a money grab. Why should extra bits cost more? I'm firmly in the camp that they are just upsampling 16/44 to whatever they can sell for more. Are the masters recorded at 24 bit 32 bit and 96khz or 192 khz? If they are does that really cost more to do? These days in digital all it takes it seems to me is for someone to include the code to trip a light. They are selling you 16/44 with a code to trip the 24/192 light.
Color me sceptical
Throw away all your silly fancypants cables, Ivan.
done I made my own from Canare..... smarty pants. Not to mention Ken S. made some for me from a coax RG62 I believe. It's an air core RG6.
To be honest I think this whole HD thing has been somewhat of a scam from the get go. It meant to be a money grab. Why should extra bits cost more? I'm firmly in the camp that they are just upsampling 16/44 to whatever they can sell for more. Are the masters recorded at 24 bit 32 bit and 96khz or 192 khz? If they are does that really cost more to do? These days in digital all it takes it seems to me is for someone to include the code to trip a light. They are selling you 16/44 with a code to trip the 24/192 light.
Color me sceptical
Throw away all your silly fancypants cables, Ivan.
Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.
Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T
I finally got around to spot checking a few tracks from different collections I've acquired over the years. I used Spek at first. Sure enough, I have some that the properties say they're higher resolution/quality than they actually are.
I was looking around and found this other application I'd like to check out as well called MusicScope, or "The" MusicScope https://www.xivero.com/musicscope/
They're not good for roasting marshmallows either. I'm 0 for 2 on these.
I made sure to try them all, just to rule out having a few bad ones in the pack.
They're not good for roasting marshmallows either. I'm 0 for 2 on these.
I made sure to try them all, just to rule out having a few bad ones in the pack.
A nice single-ended 300B stereo power amp will provide s'mores with great warmth and harmonic richness.
I'm not so worried about bit depth. More so, I look at bit depth before noise. (S-N)
But even that doesn't necessarily make your favorite Sex Pistols CD sound better.
Anyway, save your money and buy *better speakers and equipment.
*the sound you like.
Studio 2 equipment;
Yamaha a-s2100 Amp, CD-2100 CD player, T-S500 tuner
Loudspeakers: Harbeth p3esr, Polk RT7
Cables: Aural Harmony Sonnet Interconnect II, WireWorld Equinox 7 speaker,
Black Cat silverstar 75 ohm digital, Signal Digital Power Cord, PS Audio Perfect Wave AC-3,
Pangea SE14, Voltz supplied interconnects
Optional: Arcam DV88 DVD/CD (HDCD) player, Polk SDS-400 speakers
... I should add that all the digital media you listen to is upsampled
by definition....
not to take away from badly mixed and mastered garbage in, garbage out issue.
Studio 2 equipment;
Yamaha a-s2100 Amp, CD-2100 CD player, T-S500 tuner
Loudspeakers: Harbeth p3esr, Polk RT7
Cables: Aural Harmony Sonnet Interconnect II, WireWorld Equinox 7 speaker,
Black Cat silverstar 75 ohm digital, Signal Digital Power Cord, PS Audio Perfect Wave AC-3,
Pangea SE14, Voltz supplied interconnects
Optional: Arcam DV88 DVD/CD (HDCD) player, Polk SDS-400 speakers
I've skipped a lot of the DL tracks for this reason. SACD and DVD-Audio usually have good backing information on the recordings. Somewhere on the web there are also listings for dynamic range for various releases, remasters etc. A higher dynamic range than 16/44 does not guarantee it is true hi-res. There are algorithms that can artificially boost the range.
Many of the studio remastered digital tracks that are called "hi-res" are remastered at hi or super hi resolution for mixing, equalization, and artifact removal. This in theory allows increased mixing and re-engineering capabilities and precision with less digital artifacts. Some of the source is 16/44 or 16/48, maybe higher for some recordings. With 16/44 source, there will be some gains, but IMO it would be hard to tell differences between the hi-res version and a new downsampled 16/44 version. For that matter, unless the mixing was very different, most listeners wouldn't really notice the differences of the higher res mixing equipment.
IMO if the source is analog, some of the technology to remove tape hiss and defects in the tape is well worth it. Still I am not sure if there is much difference between a 16/44 and a hi-res version. Tape has its limits. For early digital sources, I don't think there are many gains.
The hi-res files need full source and remastering history, plus some good reviews for me to be interested. As mentioned if the source isn't good, even if it is all hi-res DDD, the end won't be. I have yet to get a studio CD, other than from small budget bands, that sound like an mp3. I have gotten a number that are poorly mixed, or are otherwise underwhelming.
I had this issue back in 2010 when I bought a CD of Foreigner-Mr. Moonlight. I didn't realize at the time that Amazon was doing on-demand burning of the music to a CD. When I got it and opened it up, I was underwhelmed to say the least. No pamphlet (just the cover print) and the CD itself didn't have the printing like I would have hoped. But I figured at least I have the CD and the music. Upon listening, I was not all that enamored with the recording. As mentioned by others, it sounded like it was sourced from a high quality mp3. There was just something in the high frequencies that sounded "off". Well, I got an authentic pressing of the CD recently and it sounds way better to me than the one I got from Amazon. In my opinion, there is no way the two are the same source of the recording.
Now I'm not saying that Amazon is to blame here. There is some responsibility from the recording company as well who is providing the files for the CD-R. However, it is my opinion that there is a lack of oversight on the quality of files provided to Amazon. For that reason I will never purchase any on-demand discs again. When I do buy music on Amazon, I check every time to make sure it isn't an On-Demand burn to CD-R.
There is some music on Amazon that is out of print or was never available on CD that I would love to get. Amazon has them available for purchase as On-demand CD. What would be helpful is if they explicitly said the source of the files, original sample rate and bit depth. If they did something like that, I might return as a customer for these type of recordings on CD-R.
Speakers
Energy RC-70 Mains, Energy RC-LRC Center, Energy RC-R (x4) Rear Channels, Energy RC-R (x2) Front Effects Polk 5jr+
Polk SDA 2B
Polk SDS 3.1TL Equipment
Panamax 5510 Re-generator Power Conditioner
Yamaha RX-V3800 Receiver Digital Sources: Sony CDP-X339ES CD Player, HHB CDR830 BurnIt Professional CD Recorder, Sony PS3, Oppo DV-983H DVD Player Analog Sources: Sony TC-K890ES Cassette, Nakamichi DR-1 Cassette, Technics SL-7 Turntable
Comments
Im not sure we are talking about just poorly recorded stuff, but the vast amount of normal and fairly good sounding stuff, either the difference is so small, or maybe it is just up rezzed, or maybe different masterings...or maybe.......
In the end, its hard to say anything for sure about Hi-res, that is an absolute and positive and completely true.
I think a lotta people are just not impressed, with all these uncertainties.
B+W-Sold
Electro Voice EV-SIX
Infinity-Sold
Advent-Now gone
Yamaha A-S801
Yamaha RX-V377
Yamaha RX-A860
Yamaha RX-A3060
Harman Kardon Hk-350i
Harman Kardon Hk-........
Harman Kardon PM-665
Harman Kardon HK-775
Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver
Throw away all your silly fancypants cables, Ivan.
done I made my own from Canare..... smarty pants. Not to mention Ken S. made some for me from a coax RG62 I believe. It's an air core RG6.
They make plain pants for cables, thankfully.
https://www.parts-express.com/cat/cable-pants/2120
More on this. A client of mine actually saw 192 pop up on his DAC with the new firmware update. Apparently these go higher than 96 now.
Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.
Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T
I was disappointed.
I was looking around and found this other application I'd like to check out as well called MusicScope, or "The" MusicScope
https://www.xivero.com/musicscope/
Online Manual - https://www.xivero.com/musicscope-online-manual/
HowTo - https://www.xivero.com/tutorial-how-to-analyze-any-audio-format/
High Res or Not? Whitepaper - https://www.xivero.com/blog/high-resolution-or-not-high-resolution-that-is-the-question/
Yeah, they make terrible tuning forks
I made sure to try them all, just to rule out having a few bad ones in the pack.
A nice single-ended 300B stereo power amp will provide s'mores with great warmth and harmonic richness.
But even that doesn't necessarily make your favorite Sex Pistols CD sound better.
Anyway, save your money and buy *better speakers and equipment.
*the sound you like.
Yamaha a-s2100 Amp, CD-2100 CD player, T-S500 tuner
Loudspeakers: Harbeth p3esr, Polk RT7
Cables: Aural Harmony Sonnet Interconnect II, WireWorld Equinox 7 speaker,
Black Cat silverstar 75 ohm digital, Signal Digital Power Cord, PS Audio Perfect Wave AC-3,
Pangea SE14, Voltz supplied interconnects
Optional: Arcam DV88 DVD/CD (HDCD) player, Polk SDS-400 speakers
by definition....
not to take away from badly mixed and mastered garbage in, garbage out issue.
Yamaha a-s2100 Amp, CD-2100 CD player, T-S500 tuner
Loudspeakers: Harbeth p3esr, Polk RT7
Cables: Aural Harmony Sonnet Interconnect II, WireWorld Equinox 7 speaker,
Black Cat silverstar 75 ohm digital, Signal Digital Power Cord, PS Audio Perfect Wave AC-3,
Pangea SE14, Voltz supplied interconnects
Optional: Arcam DV88 DVD/CD (HDCD) player, Polk SDS-400 speakers
Many of the studio remastered digital tracks that are called "hi-res" are remastered at hi or super hi resolution for mixing, equalization, and artifact removal. This in theory allows increased mixing and re-engineering capabilities and precision with less digital artifacts. Some of the source is 16/44 or 16/48, maybe higher for some recordings. With 16/44 source, there will be some gains, but IMO it would be hard to tell differences between the hi-res version and a new downsampled 16/44 version. For that matter, unless the mixing was very different, most listeners wouldn't really notice the differences of the higher res mixing equipment.
IMO if the source is analog, some of the technology to remove tape hiss and defects in the tape is well worth it. Still I am not sure if there is much difference between a 16/44 and a hi-res version. Tape has its limits. For early digital sources, I don't think there are many gains.
The hi-res files need full source and remastering history, plus some good reviews for me to be interested. As mentioned if the source isn't good, even if it is all hi-res DDD, the end won't be. I have yet to get a studio CD, other than from small budget bands, that sound like an mp3. I have gotten a number that are poorly mixed, or are otherwise underwhelming.
Bingo!
Yamaha a-s2100 Amp, CD-2100 CD player, T-S500 tuner
Loudspeakers: Harbeth p3esr, Polk RT7
Cables: Aural Harmony Sonnet Interconnect II, WireWorld Equinox 7 speaker,
Black Cat silverstar 75 ohm digital, Signal Digital Power Cord, PS Audio Perfect Wave AC-3,
Pangea SE14, Voltz supplied interconnects
Optional: Arcam DV88 DVD/CD (HDCD) player, Polk SDS-400 speakers
Now I'm not saying that Amazon is to blame here. There is some responsibility from the recording company as well who is providing the files for the CD-R. However, it is my opinion that there is a lack of oversight on the quality of files provided to Amazon. For that reason I will never purchase any on-demand discs again. When I do buy music on Amazon, I check every time to make sure it isn't an On-Demand burn to CD-R.
There is some music on Amazon that is out of print or was never available on CD that I would love to get. Amazon has them available for purchase as On-demand CD. What would be helpful is if they explicitly said the source of the files, original sample rate and bit depth. If they did something like that, I might return as a customer for these type of recordings on CD-R.
Energy RC-70 Mains, Energy RC-LRC Center, Energy RC-R (x4) Rear Channels, Energy RC-R (x2) Front Effects
Polk 5jr+
Polk SDA 2B
Polk SDS 3.1TL
Equipment
Panamax 5510 Re-generator Power Conditioner
Yamaha RX-V3800 Receiver
Digital Sources: Sony CDP-X339ES CD Player, HHB CDR830 BurnIt Professional CD Recorder, Sony PS3, Oppo DV-983H DVD Player
Analog Sources: Sony TC-K890ES Cassette, Nakamichi DR-1 Cassette, Technics SL-7 Turntable