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Infinite Baffle

VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
So while I am remodeling my living room/kitchen I have been trolling every where for gear, particularly speakers, as I plan to buy new the processor whenever my room is ready, just so everything is up to date...

So... my budget for a subwoofer... in my mind is about $1,000. I consider this a "used budget" as I don't buy new speakers anymore. My problem is I want ultra deep bass, good volume (theater), maybe a little music fill, maybe off for music... but here is the real kicker... I don't want to see it and I don't want a big box... and did I mention I don't want to see it. I have this idea in my mind of when you walk into my house, call you see is a TV and two speakers... everything else is in my built in rack, in the ceiling or somewhere not visible.

Insert the idea of infinite baffle subwoofers... I did enough research today in my down time to be absolutely dangerous but from what I have read....

The new Dayton Ultimax 18" woofer would be an excellent IB sub (2 of them), their resonant frequency is 19hz, the QTS is around .5, they move massive amounts of air, seems like a pair of them in a manifold and mount them in the floor with an opening around 8" x 15" (think big vent).

This seems to be the ideal scenario for me...

Who has built such a beast? any feedback?
- Not Tom

Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

"No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
«1345

Comments

  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,424
    See?
    Give the boy a bit of information and LOOK at what happens!! :p
    Living room Home theater: Upgrade Company modified Onkyo PR-SC5509,Sunfire Cinema grand Signature 5 channel amp(1st gen),Carver TFM-45,Carver M-400a,Panasonic TC-P50ST60 50" Plasma(last gen before Plasma production stopped)Pioneer Elite DVL-91,Meridian 519 Dolby AC-3 RF Demodulator,Oppo Digital UDP-205,TiVo Bolt VOX,Nakamich BX-300,Technics SL-1200MKII,Shure V15 Type VxMR cartridge,Polk SDA-SRS 3.1 TL(with RD-0198 tweeters, upgraded with Larry's rings, black hole5,an Avel-Lindberg 1000VA isolation transformer, VR3 customer crossovers and internal wiring),Polk CS-1000P(with SL-6506 tweeter),Polk Monitor 5jr(with RD-0194 tweeters),Polk RT-35i (1),Polk Mini Monitors,Polk PSW150(4)Monster Power HTPS 7000 MKII Signature series,Monster Power AVS 2000 Signature Series,Various MIT,Monster,Upgrade Company and Belden interconnect,power,HDMI,Coax and Toslink Digital and speaker cables.

    Bedroom 2 channel system:Integra DTM 40.4,Nakamichi BX-100,TiVo mini,Musical Fidelity X-LPS,X-PSU,Carver TFM-25,Sony KV-34XBR970(last of the widescreen tube sets before production stopped)Technics SL-1200MKII,Shure V15 Type V MR cartridge,Polk RT-55(with SL-6506 tweeters),Polk PSW-200 in plexiglass(2),Sony Playstation 3 slim.Monster Power HTPS-7000,Monster AVS-2000, PowerVarious Kimber,Audioquest and MIT interconnects and speaker cables.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
    edited March 2017
    lol, it honestly almost seems... to easy... I mean, the crawl space becomes the enclosure.... (or the floor the baffle, uh-hmmm, infinite baffle, buy an amp with a built in EQ/crossover/etc, cut a hole... done!

    Is anything in this life really that easy?
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 13,034
    No.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,400
    PM Russman, he sent me some pics a couple months ago. Matt a good buddy of his, a speaker builder, and a fellow LSAF member, just built a new house a installed an infinite baffle. Matt would probably be glad to help you....I'm rattling their cages now.

    I'm searching for the pics
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
    treitz3 wrote: »
    No.

    Tom

    Get out of here Tom... you and your "servo" self... nana nana boo boo

    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 13,034
    Uh-huh...

    To fill folks in. Trey's new latest and greatest is the "infinite baffle". Yeah, been there, done that, got the t-shirt and moved on.

    I'm digging the servo sub for lower frequencies. So, without me saying a word (I'll back out for a stint), if you have direct experience with the two and care to opine?

    Do so......and let the games begin!!!

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
    Now... where have you heard an infinite baffle subwoofer in a house? Car audio does not count
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
    Also, I wouldn't say anything is my latest and greatest, I'm just trying to solve a problem of I don't want a big subwoofer in my living room anymore... know what I'm saying? I want that with the potential for 120db at 20hz... whats a guy supposed to do!?!?!
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,424
    Actually as jacked as this is going to read,because of how human hearing works and how it becomes less and less sensitive to low frequencies as they get lower. You would need about 30 db more output and 20 HZ in order to consider everything flat!
    (*this is not a joke*) :|
    Living room Home theater: Upgrade Company modified Onkyo PR-SC5509,Sunfire Cinema grand Signature 5 channel amp(1st gen),Carver TFM-45,Carver M-400a,Panasonic TC-P50ST60 50" Plasma(last gen before Plasma production stopped)Pioneer Elite DVL-91,Meridian 519 Dolby AC-3 RF Demodulator,Oppo Digital UDP-205,TiVo Bolt VOX,Nakamich BX-300,Technics SL-1200MKII,Shure V15 Type VxMR cartridge,Polk SDA-SRS 3.1 TL(with RD-0198 tweeters, upgraded with Larry's rings, black hole5,an Avel-Lindberg 1000VA isolation transformer, VR3 customer crossovers and internal wiring),Polk CS-1000P(with SL-6506 tweeter),Polk Monitor 5jr(with RD-0194 tweeters),Polk RT-35i (1),Polk Mini Monitors,Polk PSW150(4)Monster Power HTPS 7000 MKII Signature series,Monster Power AVS 2000 Signature Series,Various MIT,Monster,Upgrade Company and Belden interconnect,power,HDMI,Coax and Toslink Digital and speaker cables.

    Bedroom 2 channel system:Integra DTM 40.4,Nakamichi BX-100,TiVo mini,Musical Fidelity X-LPS,X-PSU,Carver TFM-25,Sony KV-34XBR970(last of the widescreen tube sets before production stopped)Technics SL-1200MKII,Shure V15 Type V MR cartridge,Polk RT-55(with SL-6506 tweeters),Polk PSW-200 in plexiglass(2),Sony Playstation 3 slim.Monster Power HTPS-7000,Monster AVS-2000, PowerVarious Kimber,Audioquest and MIT interconnects and speaker cables.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
    As long as the floor is a whirl pool... I'm good.

    I have seen claims of 10hz (or lower) with IB... so I like the idea
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 13,483
    Sounds like a JL audio in wall.
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,400
    Here are the pics of Matt's install
    8w5vba4fjjzf.jpg
    bm4d6ph6qu86.jpg
    50z2l1tcd2n1.jpg
    y5vrrnp6o84o.jpg
    23yqbfuqag1w.jpg
    x0ymbbtknf4g.jpg
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • Dennis GardnerDennis Gardner Posts: 4,796
    edited March 2017
    You have to give more room for 2- 18s to breath than a vent or it becomes a bandpass box. Your 8x15 may be a tad small. IB is the bomb for clean, undistorted, deep, effortless, bass. Just know that 2x18 is about the same as a single 18 box sub.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
    so what vent size would you recommend? I hear you on the bandpass, the largest I could make the manifold would be like 14.5x14.5 I think (the exit)

    Matts install looks SWEET!!!!
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 13,034
    Trey, didn't we install one at Greg's place?

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
    no no no no no, that was the Definitive UIW series, it was a dual 14" in wall subwoofer in its own enclosure, no where close to an IBjtguh5bvmx94.jpg
    zjeoaki3bhpy.jpg
    ij4zx2ws87pg.jpg
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • Dennis GardnerDennis Gardner Posts: 4,796
    The 14.5 squared would be better and won't cause too much pressure/port type issues with 2 18s.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
  • ConradiclesConradicles Posts: 5,790
    Go in the Attic like Matt!
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
    eh... attic is just... not an option... lol I have 2.5' of insulation and I don't feel like having to ever roll in it
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,400
    VR3 wrote: »
    eh... attic is just... not an option... lol I have 2.5' of insulation and I don't feel like having to ever roll in it

    iyww8e7u6c58.jpg
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
    I'm feeling itchy just thinking about it
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
    Infinite baffle does not require any "enclosure" - the driver could be firing outside, the trick is the "baffle" ie - the ceiling, wall, floor, etc and making sure the front and back wave is separated
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 4,988
    No attic means that my idea of a pair of G-Horn folded horn subs mounted in your ceiling and ported into the room is out then. o:)
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,400
    I VOTE FOR G-HORN!!!!!
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,375
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    No attic means that my idea of a pair of G-Horn folded horn subs mounted in your ceiling and ported into the room is out then. o:)

    I've seen and heard it......ludicrous....silly....need more nails and screws.
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,400
    You gotta G-Horn Ryan?
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 13,034
    Well, wouldn't this be the same as a dipole? I know the two are different animals but it's basically the same thing, no?

    Drivers are mounted on a flat surface with no box enclosure for the rear of the woofer.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
    Yes..... but the back wave is completely isolated from the listening space, no box colorations, perfect clean bass
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 13,034
    edited March 2017
    "In theory".

    Eh, I'll stick with the servo sub. B)

    *sticks out tongue, puts thumbs in ears and waves fingers*

    We'll have to do a shootout at your pad if you ever get around to building one.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,217
    To quote Optimus Prime... just need a little more energon... and a whole lot of luck!! :p I definitely could see going this route, just a matter of doing it! :)
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
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