Seems like the Bear Market has begun?

2»

Comments

  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 5,513
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Nah, he's buyin' cans of Dinty Moore Beef Stew & buryin' em for a rainy day.

    ;- )

    Sir, I am unaware of any such activity or operation... nor would I be disposed to discuss such an operation if it did in fact exist, sir.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,053
    Duly noted.

    Now I need to go get some paper towels & Windex to clean the tea I just sputtered all over my laptop's LCD.

    :- )
  • oldmodmanoldmodman Posts: 745
    I keep some cash on the side to play and buy speculative things.
    I bought a bunch of TQQQ just before the bottom. The next day the market had gone down a lot more and I was down 13K so I threw the rest of the loose cash in and on Friday I sold all the TQQQ. I ended up 91,200 in profit.
    My other much more conservative accounts have lost and then regained to the point that I have exactly the same amount in my accounts as I had two days before Christmas in 2015.
    A buddy that I am always talking the market with is a crazier than I am.
    He sold everything he has in early January and bought SQQQ (the short Q's) with all his money. A little over a million dollars. He sold the S's at the same time I bought my T's. He made a bit over 300K. I wish I had balls that big.
  • WagnerRCWagnerRC Posts: 1,895
    The market for quality stocks are doing very well. We have same stocks handed down that are kicking **** and still pay dividends. We have held for many many years and all paid off. No need for the cash.
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,053
    Once the market hits bottom or whatever seems low, I'm dumping every cent I have back in.

    Hey Joey, Are you back in yet? The S&P has been on a steady upswing for the past month.

    6c274zi6iqe6.jpg

    Been back.
    Joey's Gear:
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    Old Gear:
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    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • nguyendotnguyendot Posts: 3,587
    oldmodman wrote: »
    I keep some cash on the side to play and buy speculative things.
    I bought a bunch of TQQQ just before the bottom. The next day the market had gone down a lot more and I was down 13K so I threw the rest of the loose cash in and on Friday I sold all the TQQQ. I ended up 91,200 in profit.
    My other much more conservative accounts have lost and then regained to the point that I have exactly the same amount in my accounts as I had two days before Christmas in 2015.
    A buddy that I am always talking the market with is a crazier than I am.
    He sold everything he has in early January and bought SQQQ (the short Q's) with all his money. A little over a million dollars. He sold the S's at the same time I bought my T's. He made a bit over 300K. I wish I had balls that big.

    I just sold the lot of TQQQ today @95 after it bottomed out. Not too bad of an investment. My uncle however invested earlier last year when it bottomed out and from 80 to 120+. Wish I got in on that money train.
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  • mrbironmrbiron Posts: 5,080
    Dayum.....

    For someone who has never ventured into the stock market, where do you begin? Doing some quick searches on "stocks for beginners" leads to $5 words and mass confusion.
    How much time and energy needs to be devoted to stock tracking/trading? How do you pick pick a stock?
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  • cfrizzcfrizz Posts: 13,396
    First thing is if you have a 401k, invest at the very least the matching amount that the company will give, or try to shoot for 10%. You would be amazed at how fast it can grow.

    Then look for a financial planner to get all of your investments in order. Have them look over the investments offered in your 401k, and choose the mutual funds that are right for your given age and time left to work.

    As you have indicated, you have no clue, and having a professional do it even if it costs some in fees is the way to go. For you to try to pick just the right stocks would be an exercise in frustration.

    I tried doing it myself, and while I didn't really lose anything, neither did I gain. Once I turned everything over to my planner, he diversified me even further, and things started growing.

    Diversification is the key, and looking at it from a long term perspective. Trying to get rich quick, will just leave you broke.

    I am well on my way to being able to retire in 7 years when I hit 62.

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  • nguyendotnguyendot Posts: 3,587
    For me I'm taking a bit riskier option. We have a self directed IRA...or two between my wife and I. A big chunk sits in bonds/mutual funds like VFNX that grows and pays dividends. It's not a large growth but it's steady.

    Then a big chunk goes to the money market account (where your cash sits waiting to buy stock, or after you sell stock).

    I look at a company's performance, previous years, how they do business, and what they're attached to.

    Then I wait for their stock to tank and do a quick risk assessment of when they'll go up, how long it'll take, and how long I can wait. Then buy. Wait, sell when it's higher.


    I'm a 100% amateur at this, I don't leverage things, I don't do all the weird mumbo jumbo. I'll get there, but in the year I've done it I've doubled our retirement accounts with zero added money.
    Main Surround -
    Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub

    Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250

    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,053
    I thought that today might be a fun day to revisit this thread.

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/25/investing/dow-20000-stocks/

  • Yep, this thing is going to slam into a brick wall, soon.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; Cables ZU Mission IC's, SC and power cords, all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.

    Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant

    tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there

    Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb then dumber.
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,503
    Yes sir

    Surprised it hasn't all ready
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  • stuweestuwee Posts: 1,536
    Dang, I wish my father was still with us, he was a master in investing money!!

    I have mostly mutual funds and some prime stocks he thought were a good investment and he was right.

    To those just jumping in, the key word is Diversify, a bit here, a bit there. Watch out, feel with your gut, gold and silver will always have a place in your portfolio. Vintage boxed toys are not to be sniffed at either...
    Thorens TD125MKII, SME3009,Shure V15/ Teac V-8000S, Denon DN-790R cass, Teac 3340 RtR decks, Onix CD2...Sumo Electra Plus pre>SAE A1001 amp>Martin Logan Summit's
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,053
    stuwee wrote: »
    Dang, I wish my father was still with us, he was a master in investing money!!

    I have mostly mutual funds and some prime stocks he thought were a good investment and he was right.

    To those just jumping in, the key word is Diversify, a bit here, a bit there. Watch out, feel with your gut, gold and silver will always have a place in your portfolio. Vintage boxed toys are not to be sniffed at either...

    I feel with my gut all the time....
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,114
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Yes sir

    Surprised it hasn't all ready

    You and me both. I always said it was overpriced and should be hovering around 13-14000 today.
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  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,256
    When the majority of Wall street pros can't time the market I see no good reason to try. I'm balanced invested and have no fear of what comes. Ride it out, dividend reinvest and you'll end up on top in the long run. I'm in it for the long run.

    If I want to really gamble I play poker.
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  • Erik TracyErik Tracy Posts: 4,691
    I'm retired, fully diversified in broad low ER index funds, and am up since I retired even after yearly withdrawals for annual expenses.

    Stay the course. The ride gets bumpy but you get more hurt jumping out of the roller coaster.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,114
    nguyendot wrote: »
    For me I'm taking a bit riskier option. We have a self directed IRA...or two between my wife and I. A big chunk sits in bonds/mutual funds like VFNX that grows and pays dividends. It's not a large growth but it's steady.

    Then a big chunk goes to the money market account (where your cash sits waiting to buy stock, or after you sell stock).

    I look at a company's performance, previous years, how they do business, and what they're attached to.

    Then I wait for their stock to tank and do a quick risk assessment of when they'll go up, how long it'll take, and how long I can wait. Then buy. Wait, sell when it's higher.


    I'm a 100% amateur at this, I don't leverage things, I don't do all the weird mumbo jumbo. I'll get there, but in the year I've done it I've doubled our retirement accounts with zero added money.

    I would wait for the next down turn to happen before jumping in. Standard saying is buy the dips and sell the highs, you don't want to get in on the highs or your practically guaranteed to lose money.

    Don't do it yourself either as a novice, have someone who knows a thing or two about the markets and what you want to accomplish. Different strategies for say a 50 year old looking to get in than a 30 year old.

    However if you want to play around and get your feet wet, without risking a lot....penny stocks. You can buy a boat load of stocks for not a lot of coin and if one happens to rise to 2 bucks you can make some coin. These type of stocks are usually foreign, emerging markets or foreign utility companies.

    Normally you deposit x amount in an account with someone like E-trade or various other on-line trading companies. Try and find one with the least amount of fee's. Then get your read on, research until your brain explodes. :)

    Seriously though, if you know someone in the markets and they are doing fairly well, simply mirror what they are doing until you get more experience under your belt. Playing the markets is essentially gambling, difference being you have historical records and indicators as to the movement of the market.

    Options is another aspect some might want to explore but may take a bit more investment capitol. Some option trades are gimme's almost like in commodities. Take heating oil or corn for an example. Seasonal items that you know will go up or down with changes in seasons, harvest times, etc.

    A million ways to skin that cat of what the markets offer, also a million ways to lose money too. Keep your risk low, opportunities high, and remove any emotion from your decisions.
    HT SYSTEM-
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    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
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    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

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    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,053
    The only thing that bugs me is the knowledge that there savvy folks who short the market at times like 2008 -- and make a killing on others' losses.

    I guess it only bugs me because I don't have the chutzpah to play the market aggressively.

    We're retired, too, and in fact we probably have a little bit more than an optimal percentage of our portfolio (still) in stocks... but that's a different topic ;)
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,053
    I'm listening to my friend next time. He plays the market while I stay diversified
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • Never buy and hold long term, those days are long gone. Why does it make sense to take a haircut like in 1999 and 2009?
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; Cables ZU Mission IC's, SC and power cords, all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.

    Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant

    tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there

    Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb then dumber.
  • vcwatkinsvcwatkins Posts: 1,883
    I'll take a 2004 haircut though. Well...if I had hair that is, hehe. Netflix return:
    • Since Motley Fool's 12/04 rec: +7,412%, beat market by 7,264%
    • Since 9/19/11 when many called for CEO ouster after DVD/stream split and concurrent price hike discussed here: +520%, beat market by ~440%
    My '04 lots are long gone, but I still hold some '09s at 6 bucks. In 2011, it dropped from $42 to $8. The Motley Fool lesson? Buy and hold and homework still works and let your winners ride.
    Den: Rega RP6 * AT33PTGII * Budgie SUT * Jolida jd9 * Roon (Sonic Transporter) * PS Audio DirectStream Jr. * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Sunfire Signature II * PSAudio Power Plant 3 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2
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  • Haircuts are great, just don't be holding the bag when the time comes. I know it is impossible to time the market, but I have not lost one bit of sleep missing the 10% run up since the election. Remember the saying, pigs get slaughtered.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; Cables ZU Mission IC's, SC and power cords, all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.

    Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant

    tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there

    Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb then dumber.
  • Erik TracyErik Tracy Posts: 4,691
    edited January 2017
    mrbiron wrote: »
    Dayum.....

    For someone who has never ventured into the stock market, where do you begin? Doing some quick searches on "stocks for beginners" leads to $5 words and mass confusion.
    How much time and energy needs to be devoted to stock tracking/trading? How do you pick pick a stock?

    If you have never ventured into the stock market, then individual stock holdings may not be for noobs. Heck, having been "in" the market since '84, I did mutual funds. I still do index ETFs as my major holdings.

    There is some very sound advice from John Bogle of Vanguard fame which can be found on some "Boglehead" sites.

    Their forum is located here:
    https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/index.php

    I am a believer and investor in the lazy couch potato approach - 3 broadly diversived index funds for US equities, Bonds, and some overseas. Totally invested, totally diversified - just assess your level of risk tolerance for your asset allocation...adjust as necessary.

    Otherwise - set and forget.
    https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Lazy_portfolios

    Chasing hot stocks, funds, sectors, commodities is a recipe for loss. Market timing - doesn't work for the long term. You want to make a quick killing? Go to Vegas and put your money on number 7.

    I ignore the talking heads on tv for any market news or insights - if they were so smart they'd be billionaires with a Caribbean island.

    Paying a financial 'expert' to put your 'assests under management' for a fee? Not for me. It isn't rocket science. If you want a sounding board and an expert review - then pay a fiduciary a *fixed fee* for consultation, formulate a plan, then say thank you and go on your way. Studies have shown active management can't 'beat' the market over time and the fees KILL long term earnings.

    But, like others have said, many ways to skin the 'cat' - ultimately go with what lets you sleep at night. But you are either *in* or not.

    And with inflation on the rise, money in cash is like letting the rats slowly eat your cheese.




    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
  • BetaBeta Posts: 263
    Remember the saying, pigs get slaughtered.

    Not that it matters, but I've always heard that saying articulated in my line of work as "pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered".

  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 11,482
    Yes. In regard to people hoarding stock options versus selling, we say, "Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered." LOL. Love these folk sayings.
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