Any B&K owners out there? Need help in a decision !

... I always loved B&K's mellow sound. I just upgraded to a mint pair of B&K ST 202 Sonata amp , with a Mint B&K pro10mc preamp with XLR connectors, passive mode and 2 pre amp outputs. Love the sound.

Now I have a chance to buy a friends B&K avr 307 (THX) $3000.00 receiver. It has 7 channels at 150 watts - same as the ST 202. It can play SACD and DVD-A cd;s. plus 5.1 channel movies with 2 channels to power another zone. What am I missing in that I can get the avr 307 for $300.00 less than I paid for the separates.

... I know I would need to add a phono input to the AVR 307, but that is not a critical point in my case. Nor is the fact of high end HT Blue Ray audio. Just want the best bang for the buck to drive my Maggies in 2 channel and secondary 5.1 for movies.

Any thoughts appreciated !!~!

eNJOY THE music !!!

«1

Comments

  • dee1949dee1949 Posts: 1,445
    ,, My FAVORITE affordable preamps listed below;

    Acurus RL11
    B&K pro10mc
    Yamaha cx

    - Bargain preamps below:

    Kenwood Basic
    Nikko Alpha
    Nad
    Proton

    ... add yours
  • msgmsg Posts: 5,264
    edited December 2016
    I'm a big B&K fan, myself. I've acquired several pieces of B&K gear on the second hand market over the few years I've been involved in this level of audio. Similar setups to what you mention. My first B&K gear was the MC-101 Sonata preamp and EX-442 Sonata amp. Then I slowly picked up two AVR 507s.

    I would not necessarily trade one for the other, though. For me, separates and AVRs serve different purposes.

    With the separates you have, you should get a bit more refined experience for 2ch listening, and you'll benefit from the separate power supplies in your amps over that of the AVR, shared among the channels. The difference to your ears will depend on the load and probably some other factors. The B&K AVR is no slouch, though. I think @tonyb used to have the AVR 307, himself, and spoke highly of it.

    I use the 507 in secondary systems, personally, one with LSiM 703's, and the other in a small office system with RT25i bookshelf/desktop speakers and a small Deftech sub. I enjoy both of these systems very much, even used at moderately loud volume at times.

    As for benefits over your MC-10, the AVR offers surround processing and bass management if you want to use a sub, digital inputs, DAC, EQ, and preouts, to name a few features. The AVR is a piece made to serve a different function than your separates, which are designed more for a dedicated, critical listening, 2ch experience. This is not to say that the AVR units can't do 2ch respectably - I enjoy mine for that, exactly.

    Your separates will probably excel at impact and clarity with speakers that are difficult to drive or those that will benefit from dedicated current. I suppose that can be pretty much any speaker, but it's a balancing act, speaking to practicality.

    Are you planning to go with one over the other, or possibly keep both?
    Since the AVR 307 offers preouts, you could even keep your amps and use the advanced functionality of the 307 as a front end, while possibly benefiting from the dedicated power/current of your amps. You'd have to compare to see for yourself. I think it may be a close comparison.

    Here's a table with the specs of previous B&K products. Your ST 202 and the AVR 307 are both listed here. The ST 202 offers 28A peak to peak current, and the 307 apparently offers 42A peak to peak, though I'm not sure how this would compare in real world listening comparison, again, one of the main differences here being that you have two ST 202 amps to power each channel separately, whereas the 307 woudl be sharing that load. @mantis is also a B&K fan/guru, and I think he would be able to speak more on the 307's specs and sound quality.

    Last note - I actually find the AVR to be a bit smoother than the MC-101. The MC-101 with EX-442 is a bit more crisp to my ears. Overall, I think I prefer the later model B&K gear, like the AVR and Reference preamp and amp series.
    Post edited by msg on
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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,788
    I never heard of those ampere ratings for the 307. Last I recall, it was listed at 27, very near the ST 202. 42 puts it in dedicated amp territory which even though B&k used that philosophy when building their receivers, seems unlikely.

    The 307 is one darn fine sounding outdated receiver. I might be more inclined to use it for music over movies though as it's simply too far behind in the software to even compare to todays. Has pretty good built in dacs, connections up the ying yang, and having the ability to tailor the sound through it's processing.

    As a main rig receiver for a combined 2 channel/HT receiver....your going to fall short on the HT side and no hdmi might be a hassle too. If your looking to replace the 202 and MC10 with it.....I might be inclined to favor the 307 for it's abilities I already mentioned.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • msgmsg Posts: 5,264
    edited December 2016
    I have to wonder about that 42A p-p as well; seems high for an AVR.

    I found the post I was talking about where @mantis was talking about the build components of the 507 back when I had a similar question as you, dee. I'm not particularly sure of the differences between the 307 and 507 - the specs seem similar. Is it just build and feature/function? Dan says the 507 is a Ref 50 processor with a 125.7 amp built in. Referencing B&K's spec table below, you can see that the 125.7 offers 30A p-p, so if what Dan says is accurate (he's very knowledgeable on B&K) then where does that extra 12A p-p come from in the 507 spec, and I presume, similarly, in the 307 spec? If it is closer to 30A p-p, then that's similar to what your 202's offer, and again, the main benefit being that you have two of them, and not sharing the current among both channels.

    2ch Performance Question - B&K AVR507 vs Ref50/Ref5 with B&K 200.2 Amplifier
    mantis wrote: »
    The AVR507 has a Reference 50 Preamp built in. It is exactly the same exact unit used in both chassis. Thats the only difference is the chassis.
    The amp built inside the AVR507 is a ST125.7 amp. It is not a reference amp. That receiver is 125 x 7 not 150 , the only reason it's listed as 150 is that it has extra current from the power supply when your only driving 2 channels. Other then that it's a full 125 per channel when 5 or more channels are being driven.
    The Separates will sound slightly better due to the independent power supplies and the higher quality Cap's in the Stand alone amp. Reference amps are better sounding then ST amps but the AVR 507 is probably the very best sounding AVR ever built IMO anyway. I own one but don't use it anymore, I also had a AVR307 which I loved to death.
    I have done side by side comparisons with the AVR507 , Ref50 and Reference 200.2 , 200.5 and 200.7. I have also tested the ST125.7 vs the AVR.
    Here's the 507's specs just for reference/comparison to those listed in the PDF I attached above in the previous post (I saved everything I could off of the old B&K site. Last I checked, it was completely offline and this documentation no longer available)
    6ghdv4dxpl4d.jpg
    Post edited by msg on
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  • dee1949dee1949 Posts: 1,445
    Thanks guys. Leaning towards the AVR 307. Will hook it up over the Holidays when i have some youth, with muscles, around. The 307 weighs in at 60lbs. My old ears aren't what they use to be .
  • Dee1949, can I respectfully use this thread?

    How much would a used but good condition Reference 200.5 be worth these days? I've wanted to get a better amp for sometime, but I am not the best at assessing value, especially with these older amps where the available number (n) is low.
  • msgmsg Posts: 5,264
    edited December 2016
    I'd loosely estimate $500 - $800+ depending on condition, use, and whether original box and packing materials are included, though probably closer to $600 on the lower end. I think @EndersShadow has some experience with this model.
    I disabled signatures.
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 17,035
    msg wrote: »
    I'd loosely estimate $500 - $800+ depending on condition, use, and whether original box and packing materials are included, though probably closer to $600 on the lower end. I think @EndersShadow has some experience with this model.

    I have one and did some searching for them. @Paradoxex PM me and lets keep this off this thread.

    Suffice to say I love mine, but I got a steal of a deal and the range varies...
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • dee1949dee1949 Posts: 1,445
    ... the one i am going to get is an AVR317. Basically an upgraded 307 to a 507,with Dolby Prologic II etc and upgraded dac chip. Just NOT the extra front dial.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,538
    If you need any more info on the B&K AVR's just ask.
    There has not been anything built in the last decades IMO anywhere near the asking retail price of the B&K AVR's, all of them that sound better then they did.
    If you have a use for a 307 or 507 go for it. They are remarkable. 2 channel quality is top notch and I'll put them up again any 2 channel rig anywhere near their asking price all day every day for the rest of time.
    B&K is back by the way if anyone wants to know and I heard they are going to get back into Home theater AVR's amps the hole 9. When this happens, I will own B&K gear in my rig again.
    I have a few B7K Pieces just chillin in my basement. I still have my AVR507S2. It's mine forever so don't ask to buy it LOL.
    I also have a Ref 20, Ref 30s2 and I think if I remember a AVR317 which is just an upgraded version of the AVR307. B&K use to do upgrade programs where you sent your AVR in and they upgraded it to the current offerings. It was cool and I really miss them. Nothing on the market today excites me like B&k once did.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • dee1949dee1949 Posts: 1,445
    mantis wrote: »
    If you need any more info on the B&K AVR's just ask.
    There has not been anything built in the last decades IMO anywhere near the asking retail price of the B&K AVR's, all of them that sound better then they did.
    If you have a use for a 307 or 507 go for it. They are remarkable. 2 channel quality is top notch and I'll put them up again any 2 channel rig anywhere near their asking price all day every day for the rest of time.
    B&K is back by the way if anyone wants to know and I heard they are going to get back into Home theater AVR's amps the hole 9. When this happens, I will own B&K gear in my rig again.
    I have a few B7K Pieces just chillin in my basement. I still have my AVR507S2. It's mine forever so don't ask to buy it LOL.
    I also have a Ref 20, Ref 30s2 and I think if I remember a AVR317 which is just an upgraded version of the AVR307. B&K use to do upgrade programs where you sent your AVR in and they upgraded it to the current offerings. It was cool and I really miss them. Nothing on the market today excites me like B&k once did.

    Ciao Mantis

    When the 307 is upgraded to the 317 (507) will I need a new remote. Like the 507 has ?

    Also, for SACD and DVD-A, will the digital input work for 5 channel?

    Thank you
  • dee1949dee1949 Posts: 1,445
    ok read below - i take it by using 6 analogue outs from blue ray to 6 analogue ins on the 307. you can play hd sound from blue ray. is that correct. the player decodes.

    http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/How_To_Set_up_a_Blu-ray_Player_Using_Multi-Channel_Analog_Outputs_And_Why.shtml
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,588
    Yep. For SACD 5.1 hybrid recordings. There's a few remastered recordings that have been mixed for a surround sound effect. Floyds Dark Side of the Moon is a fun one to listen to with that effect. Trippy.... ;)B)
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,588
    For movies and such....Don't know much about it.
  • dee1949dee1949 Posts: 1,445
    OK - After research ....What am I missing ???? At the prices these B&K avr 307's are going for = under $400.00. 7 channels x 150/8ohm. Have 6 channel inputs for SACD, DVD-A and Blue Ray !!! Granted no hdmi...but if you feed everything HDMI components into tv - and out from TV digital to receiver. What are you missing??

    ... AUDIO is my main passion. 5 Channel with my couch against a wall, is all I need.

    ...68 years YOUNG and baffled !!! ALL hype !!!
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 8,838
    dee1949 wrote: »
    and out from TV digital to receiver. What are you missing??

    Depending on the TV, surround signals could be down converted to 2 channel, lossless codecs will be down converted to lossy, a TV is a terrible piece of equipment to pass your audio through. Almost certainly everything involved in audio that's inside your TV is bottom of the barrel.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • dee1949dee1949 Posts: 1,445
    Mantis are you OUT there ????

    Bang for the BUCK !!!

    - I am thinking of selling my B&K Pro10Mc pre & B&K ST-202 amp MINT
    -
    - replace with AVR 307 and $200.00 in change.

    Your thoughts !!
  • msgmsg Posts: 5,264
    This is actually how I currently run my HT stuff. I agree, it can be kind of sloppy, however, there's another, better option.

    Some devices have digital audio out, so it could be best to use the HDMI from these devices to the TV, but then instead of a single digital out from the tv to the AVR, go with the available digital out on the source device to the respective input on the AVR. Cable boxes, TiVo, etc. Roku Premier Ultra has optical out, as does Apple TV 3rd Gen and Amazon's Fire TV. Other quality devices, like BRP's may have digital output as well as HDMI, so you can pass the HDMI to your TV, but pass the audio over the digital out.

    I think you still get some downmixing with this kind of setup, but at least you're getting it direct instead of going through the tv?
    Nightfall wrote: »
    dee1949 wrote: »
    and out from TV digital to receiver. What are you missing??

    Depending on the TV, surround signals could be down converted to 2 channel, lossless codecs will be down converted to lossy, a TV is a terrible piece of equipment to pass your audio through. Almost certainly everything involved in audio that's inside your TV is bottom of the barrel.
    I disabled signatures.
  • dee1949dee1949 Posts: 1,445
    Nightfall wrote: »
    dee1949 wrote: »
    and out from TV digital to receiver. What are you missing??

    Depending on the TV, surround signals could be down converted to 2 channel, lossless codecs will be down converted to lossy, a TV is a terrible piece of equipment to pass your audio through. Almost certainly everything involved in audio that's inside your TV is bottom of the barrel.



    - Retired and on SS !!! $$$$ matters.

    ... I am mainly into MUSIC !!! .... 5 channel is a plus. 7 channels is a plus +

    - plays SACD, DVD-A and BLue Ray thru 6 analogue inputs.

    - Too old to tweet or Tweeter !! Can't afford the higher DSL or cable.

    Don't need streaming .

    - Just want Awesome 2 channel sound with Great 5.1 audio....at Best Bang $$

    - from research - can't beat it for price.

    ...am I right ???

    Ready to take the PLUNGE !!

  • mantismantis Posts: 15,538
    dee1949 wrote: »
    mantis wrote: »
    If you need any more info on the B&K AVR's just ask.
    There has not been anything built in the last decades IMO anywhere near the asking retail price of the B&K AVR's, all of them that sound better then they did.
    If you have a use for a 307 or 507 go for it. They are remarkable. 2 channel quality is top notch and I'll put them up again any 2 channel rig anywhere near their asking price all day every day for the rest of time.
    B&K is back by the way if anyone wants to know and I heard they are going to get back into Home theater AVR's amps the hole 9. When this happens, I will own B&K gear in my rig again.
    I have a few B7K Pieces just chillin in my basement. I still have my AVR507S2. It's mine forever so don't ask to buy it LOL.
    I also have a Ref 20, Ref 30s2 and I think if I remember a AVR317 which is just an upgraded version of the AVR307. B&K use to do upgrade programs where you sent your AVR in and they upgraded it to the current offerings. It was cool and I really miss them. Nothing on the market today excites me like B&k once did.

    Ciao Mantis

    When the 307 is upgraded to the 317 (507) will I need a new remote. Like the 507 has ?

    Also, for SACD and DVD-A, will the digital input work for 5 channel?

    Thank you
    No They have the same exact code sets

    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,538
    dee1949 wrote: »
    mantis wrote: »
    If you need any more info on the B&K AVR's just ask.
    There has not been anything built in the last decades IMO anywhere near the asking retail price of the B&K AVR's, all of them that sound better then they did.
    If you have a use for a 307 or 507 go for it. They are remarkable. 2 channel quality is top notch and I'll put them up again any 2 channel rig anywhere near their asking price all day every day for the rest of time.
    B&K is back by the way if anyone wants to know and I heard they are going to get back into Home theater AVR's amps the hole 9. When this happens, I will own B&K gear in my rig again.
    I have a few B7K Pieces just chillin in my basement. I still have my AVR507S2. It's mine forever so don't ask to buy it LOL.
    I also have a Ref 20, Ref 30s2 and I think if I remember a AVR317 which is just an upgraded version of the AVR307. B&K use to do upgrade programs where you sent your AVR in and they upgraded it to the current offerings. It was cool and I really miss them. Nothing on the market today excites me like B&k once did.

    Ciao Mantis

    When the 307 is upgraded to the 317 (507) will I need a new remote. Like the 507 has ?

    Also, for SACD and DVD-A, will the digital input work for 5 channel?

    Thank you


    NO, you need to use the 5 channel INPUT for 5 channel for SACD or DVD AUDIO. Digital in will not decode that format.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,538
    dee1949 wrote: »
    Mantis are you OUT there ????

    Bang for the BUCK !!!

    - I am thinking of selling my B&K Pro10Mc pre & B&K ST-202 amp MINT
    -
    - replace with AVR 307 and $200.00 in change.

    Your thoughts !!


    I'd say go for it.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,538
    dee1949 wrote: »
    OK - After research ....What am I missing ???? At the prices these B&K avr 307's are going for = under $400.00. 7 channels x 150/8ohm. Have 6 channel inputs for SACD, DVD-A and Blue Ray !!! Granted no hdmi...but if you feed everything HDMI components into tv - and out from TV digital to receiver. What are you missing??

    ... AUDIO is my main passion. 5 Channel with my couch against a wall, is all I need.

    ...68 years YOUNG and baffled !!! ALL hype !!!
    the Tv will convert everything down to PCM. SACD and DVD AUDIO will not pass as there is no Decoder in the TV to do so, it won't know what to do with those signals.
    Your best bet for SACD and DVD AUDIO is to pass them to the AVR307 right out of the player using the 6 channel OUT to the B&K 6 channel IN. This is the way it was done back then.
    HDMI can pass SACD and DVD AUDIO but there has to be a decoder on the other side to understand those signals. TV's don't have them and not to mention the B&K AVR307 or anything for that matter doesn't decode SACD or DVD AUDIO over Optical.

    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • dee1949dee1949 Posts: 1,445
    Thanks M

    I am going for it.

    My St 202 is the same output as the AVR 307 - plus 5 spare amps and a preamp/processor thrown in.

    Seems like a NO brainer !!!

    Besides, my old ears aren;t what they use to be .

    Thanks again. Just needed the nudge .
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,788
    edited December 2016
    mantis wrote: »
    dee1949 wrote: »
    Mantis are you OUT there ????

    Bang for the BUCK !!!

    - I am thinking of selling my B&K Pro10Mc pre & B&K ST-202 amp MINT
    -
    - replace with AVR 307 and $200.00 in change.

    Your thoughts !!


    I'd say go for it.

    Same here....only thing is making sure your disc spinner for movies has analog outputs to plug into the analog inputs of the 307. Otherwise your missing out on all those newer surround codecs.

    You can't go digital to the tv and then to the 307, newer codecs don't work with that set up. Only in the analog domain with non hdmi receivers, which means a few more pairs of interconnects are in order.

    Bang for the buck....it certainly is.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • dee1949dee1949 Posts: 1,445
    OK .... the last leg of the quest. After further research.

    - I can hook up my old Pioneer Elite 45 for SACD and DVD-A thru 6 analogue inputs
    - With a Universal Blue RAY player with 5.1 analogue outputs, I can get HD audio. I only need 5.1

    ...Don;t need the latest and greatest. I am looking for an OPPO or equivalent that has 5.1 outputs on back and decoders built in. Can be older models. Movie sound is fine in DD etc. Looking for models that are BBB $$$
  • dkg999dkg999 Posts: 5,658
    I will be using my B&K AVR 507 s2 until it passes, or I pass. I let my Cambridge Audio BDP do the decoding and use the 5.1 analog inputs on the 507. A really nice MonoPrice HDMI switcher with remote codes takes care of the HDMI issues. The AVR 507 powers my LSI HT without breaking a sweat. I have an additional B&K Reference 125.2 that I use to power dual LSIc center channels. It's all I need and desire for HT.
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,788
    Getting to be as rare as a white Buffalo Doug....how the heck have you been ? What's new....what's shakin' your world these days ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • toshutoshu Posts: 1
    Gentlemen, I own an original B&K AVR 507 S1and love it.
    I am trying to find out what DAC was used on this model.....cant find it anywhere.

    I am thinking about buying a modern standalone DAC if it makes sense to work w the rest of the system.
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