Lsim707

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  • I would appreciate it then if you would fully explain what you are trying to say since I don't understand that's what this is for not partial information. I'm trying to give as much info as possible to make this easy.
  • @polk500 @tonyb @jeremymarcinko @f1nut

    Thanks for the help guys. I got it working pretty decently now.. next up to buy better speaker cable snd get rid of the monster speaker cable and sell the monster power conditioners. And hopefully buy a proper power bar surge protector. Maybe something from ps audio or something.
    And once that's done onto a cd player.. again...

    Thank you for the help!
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,804
    PS AUDIO would be an excellent choice for power conditioning.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,804
    I also thing your wasting power with the 2 amps on the 707's. Use one amp, in stereo mode for both speakers. Use I run of bi-wired cables to each speaker, or a single run with the jumpers back in on the 707's. Dump the Monster junk, get a ps audio conditioner and some better cabling from the likes of MIT, Acoustic zen, Kimber, Harmonic technology, Audioquest and a few dozen others. Not only will your hum issues go away, but your sound will also improve greatly.

    Just for the record, I've been in the same spot you are with Polk speakers and monster cabling. I too have always had hum issues even with Monster power conditioners. When I changed out cabling, hum went away. Later I added a PS Audio power conditioner and since that day my system has been quiet as a church mouse.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Thanks @tonyb

    When I first got the lsim707s I was running them on a rxa3030 and they were barely playing. There was no low end at all. And they didn't really sound great. Then I bough 1 azur851w and they started to sound better. So I wanted to go to bi-amp so I bought a second one. For better staging, imaging, response...
    And it was just that. A lot better. Speakers started to sound a lot better they bass was smoothly playing the tweater and mid were a lot clearer way more information started to again hear things I haven't heard before. I personally don't think 1 bit that imlve wasted my.money or time with the 2 amplifiers powering 1 speaker each. It sound great.

    Yesterday I did replace my rcas to XLR audio quest red line series. And what an improvement on the sound very very nice.

    Yes I agree with the monster power stuff. I'm definitely going to be getting rid of all the monster stuff. And I might go to ps audio or this other unit that my electronics guy showed me yesterday..basically looks like a really intense power bar that you can plug in a surge protection to it and it also will filter noise in the bar then you plug it into a surge protector outlet and your set. It's like 8 plugs or something.

    My plan here now is to sell my. Monster power avs2000ss (2 of them) and sell my monster power speaker cable. Get better speaker cable. And get that power bar or a ps audio component for the power surge/protection.

    Buuuuuuut super sadly to say my JL AUDIO e-112 subwoofer blew last night. I think the amplifier on it went somehow. The volume on it seems to just randomly go up and down to the point where sometimes I can't hear the subwoofer to where my whole house is shaking in seconds. I'm not sure at all what to do here other then talk to jl and try and get a new one..
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,804
    The 707's should have run fine off that 3030, something was amiss back then as it is today, you just carried it forward. Maybe it was your speaker cables, monster power conditioners that muffled the sound from the start and adding the other gear was just helping a little at a time.

    Sucks on the JL, call their customer service and see what they say. Have a receipt or date of purchase ready....and moan a lot. Good luck.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Lol I used to work in electronic sales so I'm. Hoping really bad I can talk to my old boss and get sorted out. Haha.

    Thank you for much for being clear and concise. Makes thing much easier to understand through text. You could very well be right about the monster power choking off the power to the units (I believe you are) buuut I still think im better off with the Cambridge audio power amps over the Yamaha-although the Yamaha worked absolutely great as a preamp.

    And again thank you very much for the help and input it's always great to get more information and other people input ideas and concerns.
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,579
    edited December 2016
    Just for reference, I use a Parasound Halo A23 on my LSiM707s and it will go as loud as I want it. That's 125 watts per channel into 8 ohms. I have also used an A21 which is 250 watts per channel. Not much difference between the two setups. The speakers are in a home theater setup run as small with the subwoofer taking on low frequencies below 60 Hz.

    These speakers are reasonably efficient and an extraordinary amount of power is not needed. Polk recommends amplification in the 20 watts to 300 watts range per speaker, not 1000 watts. 500 watts would be ok if you want to run the Cambridge amps as monoblocks. You could also get by fine just using one of those amps in stereo mode. To diagnose issues, keep things simple at first and run a single run of speaker wire to each speaker with the binding posts on the speakers connected with the short lengths of speaker wire Polk provided. If you are biwiring or biamping, remove the speaker jumpers.

    Polk recommends speaker wire of at least 16 gauge on runs under 25 feet, and either 14 gauge or 12 gauge for longer runs.

    As far as the hum from the system, that could have been the subwoofer about to fail. Another possibility is damage caused by switching any cabling without everything disconnected from electrical power.
    1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,634
    More food for thought.
    As we have seen, the key part of the equation is the electronic crossover. Splitting the signal at line level allows us to bypass the lowly passive network. So, buy another amp, an electric crossover and you are off to races. Ah, but it's not that simple. Now comes the task of calibrating the crossover to your speakers; making sure that the drivers are sent the specific frequencies their designers intended, and that slopes (the rate at which the transition between the frequencies occur, and how much they overlap) are correctly set. These adjustments are key to not only optimum performance, but system safety; operating a driver beyond its range will likely result in its failure. Maybe you've read the book, "Poof the Mangled Driver"?

    Ok, so what about just using two amplifiers and forgetting about the electronic crossover? Simply using two amplifiers is not true bi-amping and does not offer the same advantages; we still face the limitations of the passive crossover. What about the notion that bi-amping reduces stress on the amplifiers since they are powering only limited frequency ranges? That would be true in a true bi-amp configuration where the frequencies are split ahead of the amplifiers, but in a passive environment both amplifiers receive a full range signal from the preamp and dump that power into the speakers, regardless of whether one is connected to the tweeter or woofer inputs. The only benefit (and it marginal at best) is simply the additional power offered by the second amp.*

    Lastly (and maybe most importantly), the idea of using different types of amplifiers is a real issue. It has long been thought that the ideal situation was to use a sweet, refined low powered amp in top (tubes, for instance), teamed up with a powerful (usually solid state) amp to control the bass. This may indeed produce nice extreme top and bottom, but rarely did the two disparate sonic characteristics of the two dissimilar amplifiers mesh well in the critical midrange area. Further, matching signal level between both amplifiers extremely difficult, maybe impossible without sophisticated measurement equipment. So, more often than not, pseudo bi-amping, or poorly executed true bi-amping causes more problems than it cures.

    In most cases, I am not a fan of bi-amping a high end audio or video systems. As we have seen, it can be a fairly complex (not to mention expensive) modification. Proper implementation requires the use of multiple amplifiers and an outboard electronic crossover. This mandates bypassing the internal passive crossover, which requires work inside the speaker, and will clearly void your warranty. There is significant expense in hardware: the additional amplifiers and crossover, not to mention the extra cables required. Further, we dramatically add to the complexity of the system. Though it can offer substantial benefits in the right set-up, in most every instance the listener is better served by using the funds to upgrade components in the system.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • @Emlyn when I first got my lsim707s there was a problem with one and I had to send both in to a local shop to be fixed. 1 tweater had failed and they replaced it. When I talked to the owner of the shop he's about 94 years old he said that's these speakers a built incredibly well. I asked him if I could run more then recommended power. He then had talked to Polk audio for me when finishing up the warranty work and asked them for me if I could get away with running more then recommended power and they said yes so long as you are using truly high graded equipment they actually recommended more power(so long as it's hifi). I also talked to the Polk audio rep about this too and he had told me the same thing. And that's why I bought 2 amps.

    I am running them in mono bridged right now. 500w to each tower and they sound very very good.

    I definitely have to get better speaker cable and a larger gauge. I think what's in the monster wire is like 18g or 20g.

    Now hopefully I can get my subwoofer sorted out soon so I can get my bass back. And replace my subwoofer cable and speaker cable.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,804
    Exactly Jess, just trying to get that point across. He really only needs one amp, run in stereo mode for both speakers. The rest is expensive hunks of metal not doing too much, taking naps all day, because the 707's are certainly not sucking up all that power. Sell the other amps and upgrade the Power conditioner and cables, maybe source components too. Whatever you deem the weak link.

    Putting a 500 watt power amp on the top end of those speakers is wasting about 480, maybe more. Maybe the OP is unaware, but amps don't automatically put out their rated power when you turn them on.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,594
    edited December 2016
    Analogy.....you purchase a Challenger Hellcat. 707 horses under the hood, but you are only gonna use it to drive 25mph two miles to work every day.
    Or... get a Mazda MX-5. Take it out on a winding road. Open up the throttle and enjoy the finesse of a mid powered smile maker.
  • @dskip when I first ran 1 amplifier I ran it for about 6 or more months before I got a second. And I honestly noticed a huge difference in the sound quality at the right volume. I don't use my system to be loud particularly but to produce the right power at the right volume. And don't get me wrong the sound quality is great even with the one amplifier but i felt there was information missing things I couldn't hear on my stereo but I go to my friends house and he has paradigm 30th anniversary speakers on McIntosh power (now I know that's a different ball park) and his sound was incrementally better so I was comparing power and watts and recommended power and talked to many many people before I purchased the second amplifier.

    What my main goal has been is to have great clear sound with some umpf to it at a low volume. The way the electronic volume control is setup it only gets distinctive in a louder volume range. Last night I ran my stereo almost 10 notches quieter and I heard more. I usually run it at around -40 to -30 on volume depending on song recording year... and also that's running the amps in bi amp mode mono. 200w to the top and 200w to the bottom. Per speaker.
    And last night I ran it more then comfortably at around -45 for just about everything I was listening to. And it was extremely clean and responsive. Things that were slightly quieter before are now clear. Slight sounds that I couldn't tell what they were I can clearly hear them now.
  • I'm going to keep this as my setup I feel ym speakers sound incredible right now. Until I get the money to get McIntosh power I'll just keep it the way it is. Bridged mono 500w to each speaker.
  • I will do that.

    Just so everyone knows who has stopped by this discussion I am not trying to be difficult or come across like I am not listening to you. I get what you all are putting down and I understand. I've just spent a great Deal of time listening to my stereo. And I have a keen ear. And not to say you are wrong or right I just feel my direct experience with my particular product may give me an edge with what I am saying because of my experience.

    @dskip I will definitely check that out. And we will talk
  • @dskip I emailed you for now!
  • DSkip wrote: »
    Vernon we should talk. Check out my website Audiothesis.com and give me a call. The phone number is on the homepage.

    I want to know more about your experiences and just talk audio for a while.

    I have been setting up a new 2ch rig lately, and have purchased it all from Skip. This guy @DSkip is a good contact to have in your arsenal.
    2ch rig:
    Speakers: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods
    Preamplifier: Parasound P5
    Amplifier: Vincent SP-331
    CDP: Denon 1520
    Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB
    Benched: Parasound A23
  • Said the guy that's drank at least two of the beers I brought over when we chilled.. . :p
    2ch rig:
    Speakers: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods
    Preamplifier: Parasound P5
    Amplifier: Vincent SP-331
    CDP: Denon 1520
    Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB
    Benched: Parasound A23
  • Lol just for arguments sake. Since running my amps in direct (mono, bridged) they run cool now. Right now I've been running ym stereo fr about an hour. And usually by now they would be quite warm... wouldn't that be in relation to a resistance issue regarding the efficiency with the speakers?
  • Lol how not. Logic and science suggests that if the speakers are getting enough power the power source itself is getting resistance causing heat from inefficient transfer of power, being that the speakers are getting enough juice?
  • Define "enough power."

    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • cvernon36cvernon36 Posts: 33
    edited December 2016
    Amperage./ current
  • I don't think so...
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