why use vibrapods ?

leftwinger57
leftwinger57 Posts: 2,918
edited August 2014 in Electronics
While having a conversation w/ Pumpkinman last month he showed me some of his gear via p/m. Among or admist his stuff were vibrapods and I really never got into why one uses these things. Now, I use cheap black spice cap lids just to raise a device if it needs breathing room or as F-1 has said try hockey pucks. Question is, what vibrates in a system the only thing that moves could be a cdp or a turn table and obviously not at the same time. Besides rack rash why are these used by some or if not why not. I believe I have the link to the pods he uses. Things like lining devices w/ Dynamatt I just can't see doing it, yes for speakers you have that resonance ring effect off the basket into the cabinet, that's fairly easy for a simple mind to understand. What I don't get is going to the extreme of doing up non moving devices.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2C-Rubber-Cork-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8
2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
Post edited by leftwinger57 on
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Comments

  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
    edited August 2014
    I used some of the Pangea audio's sorbothane large feet on my TT to raise it a bit as the ground cable and RCA connections where just to close to the table and a major pain.

    here is a link to some other isolation stuff on Audio advisor:
    http://www.audioadvisor.com/Isolation-Components/products/66/

    also if your trying to put 1 device on top of another but the feet dont line up with the chassis, you can use the large feet to make new feet that can set on top of the other device..
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • Hermitism
    Hermitism Posts: 3,807
    edited August 2014
    Things like lining devices w/ Dynamatt I just can't see doing it, yes for speakers you have that resonance ring effect off the basket into the cabinet, that's fairly easy for a simple mind to understand.

    Like you, I didn't really understand how putting Dynamat inside a component could make a difference, with the exception of my Blu-ray player. I figured since it has moving parts inside the optical drive it could cause a vibration. I'm someone that has never claimed to be able to hear the slightest changes in sound, but I have to say I can tell a difference in everything I applied Dynamat to. Some extremely subtle and some very noticeable.

    When I applied it to my front RTi8's, I didn't hear a lot of difference, but I could tell a difference. More so when turning the volume up to higher levels. But when I applied it to my center channel, I thought it made a night and day difference. Huge improvement. When I ordered Dynamat for my Blu-ray player, it arrived the same day as the Pangea power cable that I was going to be using for it. So I can't speak to which improvement I noticed can be associated with the Dynamat or the power cord, but those Blu-ray player upgrades made big improvements to sound (clarity) and video.

    When I applied Dynamat to the inside of my AVR and power conditioner, it created a much warmer sound. Very noticeable and to be honest, I wasn't really expecting any improvements, but I had plenty of Dynamat left over, so I thought what the hell. That warmer sound really complimented the RTi series speakers.

    I don't know anything about vibrapods. I do however know a lot about telepods...they can turn Brundle into a Brundlefly.
  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,477
    edited August 2014
    I started out using vibrapods (and cones) in my system under the amp, pre-amp, transport and DAC. I then bought some of Herbie's "Tenderfeet" and put them under my DAC. A slight improvment in clarity and detail was heard.

    After a few years, I decided to upgrade my isolation devices. I almost bought some black diamond cones and "pucks" as DK (Ray) seemed to have very good results with them.

    Instead, I found a good deal on some used Marigo Audio TRi Mystery Feet and VXi Mystery Feet to place under my Amp, Pre-amp, transport(s) (both the DSD transport and Jade Redbook transport) as well as my DAC.

    I have to say that the difference between the vibrapods/cones, Herbie's Tenderfeet and the Marigo Audio Mystery Feet was nowhere near subtle! Everything improved after installing the Mystery Feet including: overall clarity, overall detail, imaging, soundstage, image weight (a little less so than other aspects), bass detail and clarity, midrange detail and clarity, high end detail and clarity. All were better.

    I realise that the Marigo Audio isolation devices are not cheap, but I will say if you can get some used, they are well worth the money! You absolutely will not be dissapointed!
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,523
    edited August 2014
    or as F-1 has said try hockey pucks.

    I don't know who told you that, but it wasn't me.
    What I don't get is going to the extreme of doing up non moving devices.

    Ah, but they are moving or more accurately, vibrating. Sound waves move air and moving air causes vibrations that are transfered to all of your gear.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,458
    edited August 2014
    Yep, it's not so much the device itself, but the sound waves. Kinda like when you crank it up a bit and anything glass starts to shake rattle and roll, pictures start vibrating, and the dog falls off the couch. A lot of stands these days use what as shelves....glass, and what ever is on that glass will absorb vibrations.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
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    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • leftwinger57
    leftwinger57 Posts: 2,918
    edited August 2014
    At the time it was not directed at me and I couldn't figure out if it was a real fix or goof because of your usual 1 or 2 word answers. If wrong sorry. Now, if I heard no difference between 3 different brands of I/Cs(Monster,Signal,Blue Jeans Belden) that I've tried and multiple kinds of speaker cables(Cat-5 temp fix,14gu clear,12gu BJ to my 350s and 10gu BJ Belden to SDAs) w/o hearing a discernable difference for me I seriously doubt that any vibrations that might or are there are effecting me and my system. Not saying a definate no on the pods but the more expensive feet are totally out of the question. It's very hard for me to buy into this one yet except for stack rash or breathing room. I would like hear back from Pumpkinman on this for another opinion.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • leftwinger57
    leftwinger57 Posts: 2,918
    edited August 2014
    Tony, you chimed in as I hit the summit button. So now your saying it's not so much my gear but what the gear produces. To quell this is to use some sort of isolation feet on every device. If you ever saw pix of my place there is a row of my mom's plates that I had to mount. They did shake like crazy and I actually velcroed them to the rack and they do not move any more.



    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/leftwinger57leftwinger/DSCN05301_zpsae843de5.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/leftwinger57leftwinger/DSCN05291_zps45629b7e.jpg
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,458
    edited August 2014
    Not what the gear produces LW, though they can contribute to noise within a signal, but vibrations from sound waves your speakers produce. Follow ? Sound waves aren't picky about what they vibrate in the room, your gear being one of them. So the better you can isolate your gear from that vibrating sound, the better.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • voltz wrote: »
    I used some of the Pangea audio's sorbothane large feet on my TT to raise it a bit as the ground cable and RCA connections where just to close to the table and a major pain.

    here is a link to some other isolation stuff on Audio advisor:
    http://www.audioadvisor.com/Isolation-Components/products/66/

    also if your trying to put 1 device on top of another but the feet dont line up with the chassis, you can use the large feet to make new feet that can set on top of the other device..

    For me removing the spike and replace by Vibrapods under my speaker made the sound full and natural, never again spikes. So I install other Vibrapods and cones under my components, on the power amp much more bottom end !
  • Paradoxex
    Paradoxex Posts: 190
    Welcome to the forum.
  • soundfreak1
    soundfreak1 Posts: 2,940
    I use a cut out piece of " matting use for sensitive electronic testing equipment" followed with a set of vintage audiotechnica turntable isolators. Also keep the turntable on the other side of the room (due to speaker placement) so the speakers are not facing the turntable and are 15 feet away.11umuby7cxge.jpg
    Main Rig:
    Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
    Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
    Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
    MIT exp 1 ic's
    Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
    AQ kingcobra ic's
    OPPO 83 CDP
    Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
    Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
    Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
    ADS L1590/2 Biamped
    MIT exps2 speaker cable
  • soundfreak1
    soundfreak1 Posts: 2,940
    Also use these on or under equipment. wuwpqclhmcqj.jpg
    Main Rig:
    Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
    Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
    Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
    MIT exp 1 ic's
    Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
    AQ kingcobra ic's
    OPPO 83 CDP
    Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
    Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
    Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
    ADS L1590/2 Biamped
    MIT exps2 speaker cable
  • ^^^ I use the rubber version. couple of bucks each.

    This is a very old thread. :)
    For turntable I use a piece of granite and these anti vibration
    supply house dot com
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,523
    edited October 2016
    sim2266 wrote: »
    For me removing the spike and replace by Vibrapods under my speaker made the sound full and natural, never again spikes. So I install other Vibrapods and cones under my components, on the power amp much more bottom end !

    You didn't provide any real useful info about your applications. For example, which model Vibrapods you have under your speakers, whether the speakers are floor or bookshelf, the weight of your speakers, what spikes you were using and on what surface?

    I once had a CD player that would skip a bit when playing the rig at high volume levels. I tried Vibrapods, but it still skipped, but even worse the Vibrapods damaged the finish on my wooden table. Anyway, I replaced them with Sorbathane domes, problem solved.

    So, back to speakers. Some folks a lot more knowledgeable than myself would argue with solid evidence to back them up that speakers not solidly anchored will move back and forth a bit from the drivers moving resulting in a smeared presentation, which I have found to be the case. You may mistake that as a fuller sound.



    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,458
    Why use vibrapods....spikes ??

    Why use toilet paper too.....there's a reason for everything, get your learn on. About vibrations, not toilet paper. ;)
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • WTS
    WTS Posts: 170
    If you want to laugh yourselves silly reading some absolute howlers about "solutions" to vibration issues, read this:

    https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/do-equipment-stands-have-an-impact-on-electronics

    Mixed in with a few valid points is some of the worst woo-woo bull-pucky and pseudoscience and snake oil that I've ever read.

    In fact, the snake oil salesmen are competing fiercely to debunk the other snake oil salesmen's products while promoting their own snake oil.

    "Morphic Resonance?" Really????!? Isolation from seismic vibrations? That's a thing???!?

    What's sad is that these con men actually succeed at conning people out of their money.

    I'm avoiding using one term used by others in that "discussion" that starts with "circle-" and ends with a word that rhymes with "work," but it's completely apt, if crude.

    This dreck is a microcosm of everything that is wrong with high-end audio.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,523
    Oh boy.....
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,312
    The more unwanted vibrations I eliminate from my system the more realistic it sounds.
    Our ears are incredible sensors and we should not sell them short.
    Interesting article attached.
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,523
    @wts is 100% correct.

    Wrong.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ^^^ there you go. Lets move on.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,458
    F1nut wrote: »
    Oh boy.....

    LMAO....at least he's honest about his thoughts. I just get tired of the same old arguments.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • F1nut wrote: »
    @wts is 100% correct.

    Wrong.

    lzc8rvbg9046.gif

    ROFL


    2ch rig:
    Speakers: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods
    Preamplifier: Parasound P5
    Amplifier: Parasound A23
    CDP: Pioneer DV-563A
    Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB
  • WTS
    WTS Posts: 170
    I thought I'd add some levity. I didn't mean to interrupt @leftwinger57's old thread. Sorry about that. No disrespect intended to him/her or the desire to improve sound.

    I do stand by what I wrote about that other thread, though.

    Of course there is much to be gained by reducing vibration in many contexts. The sound from speakers can cause feedback in turntables. It can cause metal parts in components (or the rest of the room, for that matter) to vibrate (although why the components wouldn't be designed to be deadened is beyond me -- but I digress). Footfalls can possibly be heard through turntables, or, in worst case scenarios, can cause needles to skip. Etc.

    But a lot of what was described in that other thread is absolute hooey. The "morphic resonance" guy's messages read like The Onion. Others are almost as bad.

    I recently started paying attention to audio again after some years. When I last did so, I saw a lot of pseudoscience, snake oil, self-deception, and outright fraud, especially at the high end. If anything, it has gotten worse in my absence. Or maybe it just seems that way due to the misinformation being spread around on the internet.

    To be frank, it's dismaying. When I shop for a car, one may be more comfortable, or more reliable, or get better gas mileage, or accelerate faster than another, and they'll have different price points. That's okay. But I don't have to think about paying $1,000,000 dollars for a new car that is advertised as being worth the money because the battery cables are made of 99.99% pure copper with gold connectors.
  • We cool. B)
    These things always end this way.
    NP
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,458
    WTS wrote: »
    ....new car that is advertised as being worth the money because the battery cables are made of 99.99% pure copper with gold connectors.

    So to add more levity, I'm guessing your distain is aimed at cables ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • WTS
    WTS Posts: 170
    tonyb wrote: »
    WTS wrote: »
    ....new car that is advertised as being worth the money because the battery cables are made of 99.99% pure copper with gold connectors.

    So to add more levity, I'm guessing your distain is aimed at cables ?

    How long and detailed an answer would you like?

    Short answer: my opinion on audiophile stuff depends on whether an upgrade yields a noticeable and documentable improvement, chases diminishing returns, is theoretically a benefit but in practice is unnoticeable, or is snake oil. This includes, but is not limited to, cables.

    I chose that analogy because it popped into my head. I could have used other analogies. In the car world, I could also talk about those devices that are supposed to magically increase your gas mileage by 3000%, because evil oil companies have a conspiracy to prevent car manufacturers from installing them. Or engine mods that may add a few extra HP at redline but that gut the midrange. Or engine mods that may yield more HP but create more emissions. Etc.

    Or, for that matter, replacing the entire engine with a new engine that all around works better than the predecessor (or perhaps replacing a blown engine with a new, working one; or rebuilding the blown one). Or upgrading the navigation unit with one that has a better screen and more up to date maps. Or other positive stuff.
  • "documentable improvement"
    Here is your problem. :)
  • WTS
    WTS Posts: 170
    "documentable improvement"
    Here is your problem. :)

    Silly me. LOL.
  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,312
    I disassembled by Hafler 110 preamp the other night and Dynamated the top and bottom covers. Put it back into the rack and gave a test drive. I can't say that the SQ was any better but it did not hurt anything and it feels solid as a rock.

    Then I removed the Hafler's stock feet and placed it on four #1 Vibrapods (the Hafler's weight with Dynamat is 11 pounds).

    At the same time I also placed my Marantz SA8005 on four #2 Vibrapods (the Marantz weighs 18 pounds). I placed the Vibrapods under the stock feet.

    Wow, I am surprised! Definite improvement in bass and imaging. It's hard to believe that eliminating vibrations can have such an impact on SQ.
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"