Monitor 11 Tweeter troubleshooting
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canhazbeer
Posts: 11
Hi, I'm new to Polk. Bought Monitor 4's, then went a little nuts and added a set of Monitor 11's to the collection. Need help troubleshooting them.
The 11's have Peerless tweeters that aren't putting out any sound, they were like that when I bought them (for the $60 asking price I figured something was probably wrong with them). Everything else seems fine; other drivers work, receiver works, all internal wire connections look fine, fuses on the backs of the speakers are intact. Both speakers are behaving the same way.
Multimeter reads 4 ohms resistance on the tweeters alone. Does this mean the tweeters are fine and the problem must be the wire connections or crossovers? Or could the tweeters still be the source of the problem?
I'm trying to narrow down the issue to either the tweeters or the crossovers. I only have the cash to replace one or the other right now. Any ideas for how to isolate the problem any further?
The 11's have Peerless tweeters that aren't putting out any sound, they were like that when I bought them (for the $60 asking price I figured something was probably wrong with them). Everything else seems fine; other drivers work, receiver works, all internal wire connections look fine, fuses on the backs of the speakers are intact. Both speakers are behaving the same way.
Multimeter reads 4 ohms resistance on the tweeters alone. Does this mean the tweeters are fine and the problem must be the wire connections or crossovers? Or could the tweeters still be the source of the problem?
I'm trying to narrow down the issue to either the tweeters or the crossovers. I only have the cash to replace one or the other right now. Any ideas for how to isolate the problem any further?
Comments
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Can you pull a tweeter from the monitor 4s or another set of speakers and wire in place of the peerless to see if you get sound? That's what I'd do first if it was me. If still no sound out of a tweeter that you know is working, they I'd think it's time to check the crossovers for damage.
Did you pull the fuses on the back and clean the fuse holders? Could be something as simple as that. I'd try new fuses for the heck of it too, even though the ones in there look good.Lexicon RT-10, Parasound P5, McCormack DNA 0.5, Polk SDA CRS+, SVS Sub
Schiit Modi, Luminous Audio Axiom II, McCormack DNA-1, Digital Phase AP 2
Marantz AV7701, Emotiva XPA-5, Paradigm 11se Mkii, DCM Time Windows, NHT 2C, SVS Sub
Spares - Kenwood C1 Pre, NAD 2200PE, Polk Monitor 10B, Polk Model 11, other odds and ends -
Share some pictures of the Monitor 11s too if you can. Fairly rare from what I understand. I have a set of Model/Monitor/RTA 11s, and in my opinion they are worth making right.. I love how they sound and they really crank when I want them too.Lexicon RT-10, Parasound P5, McCormack DNA 0.5, Polk SDA CRS+, SVS Sub
Schiit Modi, Luminous Audio Axiom II, McCormack DNA-1, Digital Phase AP 2
Marantz AV7701, Emotiva XPA-5, Paradigm 11se Mkii, DCM Time Windows, NHT 2C, SVS Sub
Spares - Kenwood C1 Pre, NAD 2200PE, Polk Monitor 10B, Polk Model 11, other odds and ends -
Those 11's should be directional L&R speaker also. If there is no tags you can remove the woofers & they should say on the back of the MW sticker. Make sure you have the CORRECT woofers.... While your in there check to make sure the dacron hasnt fallen down in front of the passive radiator (makes for better bass)... If you havent LocTite Power Grab'd the magnets on both sides (3.00 a tube at HDepot). It will help prevent magnet shift. Nice sounding speakers..
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Randy/Maine -
Never could find the L&R labels on mine. I think it's supposed to be on the serial number sticker, but mine are so worn it was hard to tell. All of the mid drivers should be 6600X's, and I didn't see anything on them in regard to speaker orientation either.
Pretty sure the mid with the foam roll/baffle behind it is always on the inside. That's what I did after reading a post on here a long time ago..Lexicon RT-10, Parasound P5, McCormack DNA 0.5, Polk SDA CRS+, SVS Sub
Schiit Modi, Luminous Audio Axiom II, McCormack DNA-1, Digital Phase AP 2
Marantz AV7701, Emotiva XPA-5, Paradigm 11se Mkii, DCM Time Windows, NHT 2C, SVS Sub
Spares - Kenwood C1 Pre, NAD 2200PE, Polk Monitor 10B, Polk Model 11, other odds and ends -
Just do the old school tweeter test,, pull em out,, connect to your amp,,turn the volume up SLOWLY,,with something playing of course,,then report back.JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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I bought some old Peerless tweeter Monitor 5's last year and all I did to get the tweeters working again was to clean the fuse ends and retainers with a little Scotchbrite.
It was just corrosion. -
Pretty sure the mid with the foam roll/baffle behind it is always on the inside.
That is correct way to determine the left and right speaker, but the foam baffle is flat, not rolled.
To the OP, the foam baffle we speak of is behind one of the mid-drivers. If your speakers have never been worked on the foam will be rotted and is likely laying at the bottom of the cabinet. That issue needs to be addressed.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
You guys are awesome.
Yes, these usually have left and right stickers on the backs of the crossovers. Mine are missing those so I used the foam baffle trick to figure it out when i got them. The foam is still in the right place.
I'll try to post pictures when I can for those interested, might be a couple days hang tight.
Tweeters directly to receiver - I'm new and gullible so please tell me whether you're **** with me before I try this and reduce the world's peerless population by 2
Clean the fuse connections - good idea great price tag, I'll try it.
Swapping in monitor 4 tweeters - not sure that's an option here, the 4's are a little newer and use sl2500's. Will this be an issue, aside from the mounting incompatibility which doesn't really matter? Also I could hook the peerless up to the 4's. What do you guys think? Just don't want to damage anything, warn me if I'm about to start an electrical fire.
Thanks for the help everyone -
Many times when dealing with a suspect driver/ tweeter, I have connected it to the amp and turned the volume up slowly ,,you either get sound or not,,pretty easy to do.JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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The Peerless Tweeters should be reading 8+ ohms DCR. I've found many Peerless equipped Monitors with burned out resistors on the crossovers.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Just thought id post pictures of the MW tagged with M11-L. Both MW's were tagged L&R on these M11's. I have heard some/most did not. These cabinets also had a L&R sticker on the back just above binders (which were barely hanging on-so i glued them on better & also marked on cabinet in case tag ever fell off..
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Randy/Maine -
george daniel wrote: »Many times when dealing with a suspect driver/ tweeter, I have connected it to the amp and turned the volume up slowly ,,you either get sound or not,,pretty easy to do.
Ok...you've got me. I'll try it.westmassguy wrote: »The Peerless Tweeters should be reading 8+ ohms DCR. I've found many Peerless equipped Monitors with burned out resistors on the crossovers.
Damn, didn't realize that. So then what does it mean that I was only getting 4? Multimeter was on the wrong setting?
And is there any way I can isolate the problem to the resisters for sure?boston1450 wrote: »Just thought id post pictures of the MW tagged with M11-L. Both MW's were tagged L&R on these M11's. I have heard some/most did not. These cabinets also had a L&R sticker on the back just above binders (which were barely hanging on-so i glued them on better & also marked on cabinet in case tag ever fell off..
Thanks, those are some clean looking speakers. Mine are similar shape cosmetically but maybe a little more dust. Hopefully I can get them working soon! I should actually put a mark or sticker or something on the back to label L/R so I can know without opening them up.
I expect to have a free hour later today to try some of these recommendations and maybe snap a few pics. -
It most likely means your meter is way off, or you're using the wrong setting. Try testing it on a known resistance. Mills resistors are 1% tolerance, they're spot on.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
westmassguy wrote: »It most likely means your meter is way off, or you're using the wrong setting. Try testing it on a known resistance. Mills resistors are 1% tolerance, they're spot on.
Well it was my first time using one so could be user error, I'll try again. I still haven't a chance to fiddle with these speakers any more.
There is a very temptingly priced pair of totally functional DCM Timeframe 600's on craigslist in my town...but I've already resolved to get these 11's working before I can buy any more speakers. Such is life... -
Pull the PRs, and have a look at the crossovers. Check for any burned area. The current draw on the Peerless is right on the edge of the 5 watt sand-cast resistors.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
What brand and model meter are you using. Very inexpensive meters can have significant error at these low ohm readings. I had a Harbor Freight $7 meter that measured a 2 ohm 1% resistor as 6 ohms. My Fluke 187 read spot on.Stan
Main 2ch:
Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.
HT:
Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60
Other stuff:
Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601 -
westmassguy wrote: »Pull the PRs, and have a look at the crossovers. Check for any burned area. The current draw on the Peerless is right on the edge of the 5 watt sand-cast resistors.
Nice, I just checked and they're not visibly burned. Could they be burned out without any visual sign?What brand and model meter are you using. Very inexpensive meters can have significant error at these low ohm readings. I had a Harbor Freight $7 meter that measured a 2 ohm 1% resistor as 6 ohms. My Fluke 187 read spot on.
Not sure, it was a friend's meter, but it was probably a cheaper one.
Update
I noticed last night the tweeter in the left speaker mysteriously started working, no idea why but it sounds pretty good. This gave me the opportunity to swap tweeters and discover both tweeters work! Looks like we can probably narrow down the right speaker's problem to the crossover. I've never rebuilt a crossover but I have the soldering experience to do it.
For budget reasons I'm thinking about only replacing the resisters first, just to try to get both speakers working on the cheap, then recap later when I have the money. I would do both speakers to keep everything matching. Any drawback to this? Any other ideas? I'm at a loss as to why the left tweeter works again. Normally I'd say an iffy connection got jiggled back into place or the fuse holder was dirty, but those have been fine the whole time. -
I just finished a Peerless/Monitor 5 crossover for a customer. We had decided to eliminate the fuse blocks. From the outside, and even under the circuit board where the wire is covered with hot glue, everything looked fine. When I removed the fuse blocks, the corrosion where the lead wires were riveted to the block was extensive.
Resistors can fail with no visible signs. My experience with the older Peerless crossovers has shown visible overheating, and even charred circuit boards quite often.
You may just have a cold solder joint, or other type of intermittent connection somewhere.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
westmassguy wrote: »I just finished a Peerless/Monitor 5 crossover for a customer. We had decided to eliminate the fuse blocks. From the outside, and even under the circuit board where the wire is covered with hot glue, everything looked fine. When I removed the fuse blocks, the corrosion where the lead wires were riveted to the block was extensive.
Resistors can fail with no visible signs. My experience with the older Peerless crossovers has shown visible overheating, and even charred circuit boards quite often.
You may just have a cold solder joint, or other type of intermittent connection somewhere.
Ok I will pull the crossover again and check the connections more closely, I haven't paid attention to the fuse block connections. If I can't find anything loose I'll probably take the kitchen sink approach - redo the whole crossover, every connection, and hope it works.
