HALP! Yammy RX-V3000 Clicks Off Immediately

Just started while listening to some music, unit powered off, powered it back on, played music for 30sec, turned back off. Pulled it out looking for a stray speaker wire shorting it, found none, disconnected everything one by one, still shuts down immediately after powering up with everything disconnected so yay! Internal problem!

Going to open it up and look for anything obvious, any advice of where concentrate on?

It's an old unit but if I can keep it alive I'd sure like to, drives the LSi's very nicely, any help greatly appreciated!



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Comments

  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    Opened it up, blew it out real good, replaced the main 10a/250v fuse, still doing it. Found this guy, does it look burned to you?

    xtqksydxrnf3.jpg
    pok8w6hxa8kz.jpg
    tfhui2m5vmzr.jpg
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  • Squidmon
    Squidmon Posts: 84
    edited July 2015
    My RX-V1 did that. Was the main power supply
    If there ain't no gold at the end of the rainbow, I'll settle for the pot.:D
    Yamaha RX-A2020
    2-Sony DVP-CX995V 400 Disc players
    Sony BDP-S580 Blu-Ray Player
    Mains:Polk RT2000P
    Center: Polk CS400
    Rears: Polk FXi A6
    Subs:2-Polk PSW450
  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    Whole power supply needed replaced or repaired? How much?
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,347
    Yeah the most likely culprits are a P/S component (voltage regulators, filter capacitors, rectifiers) or a driver or output "device" (transistor).
  • cvc
    cvc Posts: 65
    You can always test the speaker wire to see if it's bad.. Is it old?.. Are all channels using the same type of wire.. If your surrounds are different then plug the rears into the mains to see if it works.. Or you can spend less then $30 at Home Depot for their cheap 100 ft wire buy the spool or maybe spend less by buying the open spool they have available for the exact length you need.. If your lengths are short then it could be cheap.. My speaker wires went bad and shorted out my Yamaha amp a few weeks ago..
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,347
    edited July 2015
    cvc wrote: »
    You can always test the speaker wire to see if it's bad.. Is it old?.. Are all channels using the same type of wire.. If your surrounds are different then plug the rears into the mains to see if it works.. Or you can spend less then $30 at Home Depot for their cheap 100 ft wire buy the spool or maybe spend less by buying the open spool they have available for the exact length you need.. If your lengths are short then it could be cheap.. My speaker wires went bad and shorted out my Yamaha amp a few weeks ago..

    umm...
    ... Pulled it out looking for a stray speaker wire shorting it, found none, disconnected everything one by one, still shuts down immediately after powering up with everything disconnected ...
  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    Yup. Everything disconnected, still acting up.

    Mhardy, can you tell if any of those things are bad just by looking, or does it require disassembly and testing?

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  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    edited July 2015
    Ok, so blew it out really good, pulled out the power supply board (top left in the picture) put it back in, De-Ox It on the volume pot (works better now!) and the main power wire connections to the board, dried, blew out some more, hooked it up and it shut off again.

    On purely a hunch, switched the speaker ohm selector from 4 to 8ohm, 20min later still playing, and lots of Zedd at good volume no less...They're 4ohm speakers (LSi's) but as I understand it the 4 ohm setting just limits current to prevent overheating, thinking maybe the 4ohm part of that circuit went bad?

    Edit: powered it down, switched back to 4ohm, another 20min of playing, no problems...must be getting to be an old finnicky receiver. Then I read the following and decided to leave it in 8ohm anyway:
    http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1/amplifier-and-power-supply-basics

    So, what gives, did I scare it into submission? I even called on another receiver in the local classifieds, maybe it heard and decided to straighten up?
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  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    edited July 2015
    It decided it doesn't like me. Took it back apart to clean some other contacts while I was at it, re-assembled and it quit working! So now it's definitely NOT a heat issue, thinking loose connection/solder joint. Start tapping the chassis, sure enough it shuts off! Wiggling one terminal, wire and component at a time I find the problem, it was that off-color burned looking resistor!

    The backside was even better. So, re-solder all the melted connections, works good as ever.

    So, question is since I'm going to replace all three of those guys anyway, use whatever Radio Shack/local electronics store has or chance for a tiny upgrade? If so can someone point me in the right direction?

    xtqksydxrnf3.jpg


    hbeq6jh526pz.jpg

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,347
    edited July 2015
    The P/S components pass a lot of energy over the lifetime of a hifi component and those components all dissipate power in the form of heat as well as providing useful power to the circuitry. Those are power resistors that help set the (DC) voltages of the filtered, rectified AC mains power as required by various parts of the receiver's operating circuits.

    The discoloration is due to this "I-squared-R" heat (wasteful power dissipation), it's normal but it could also be pathological if the heating is excessive. It's also far from uncommon for the manufacturers of equipment to use components (capacitors, resistors, chokes, or even active components like transistors and rectifier diodes) that are barely up to the task (voltage, current, power) required of them by their designs. There are two reasons for this, unfortunately: 1) cost cutting and 2) planned obsolescence (what? I am shocked, I tell you! Shocked!) :-P

    Can you tell by looking? No.

    Could the heating/cooling cause the solder joints to deteriorate? Yes.

    There's a reason that folks get paid to work on this stuff... Personally, I hate servicing/troubleshooting solid state equipment. It is complicated and very picky (i.e., the working voltages in a circuit sometimes have to be very precise and very tightly regulated for it to work). Vacuum tube circuitry is much simpler and more forgiving (other than requiring lethal high voltages to work, but one adapts to that fairly quickly or dies trying!).

    So -- I really cannot offer much encouragement. Find someone who knows something about this amp and ask him or her to ask you to troubleshoot it. If you can find a service manual for it, you can start checking voltages with a DMM if you're comfortable so doing -- but a slip of a meter probe can do even more damage.

  • cvc
    cvc Posts: 65
    Look at my post titled, "Yamaha DSPA1 Blues".. It's on the same page as this post.. There's a great video of some servicing the Yamaha amp.. He resoldered like you did and also swapped out a chip that he bought on ebay for $5.. So purchase what you need anywhere..
  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    edited July 2015
    Mhardy, I re-soldered those joints and touched up a few others that looked suspect, amp works great now! May be just in my head but sounds better than ever!

    Although I'm still going to replace those three resistors, just to be safe, and take a second hard look at the other boards for any similar troubles, including the display board as it's got the flickering problems like the DSPA1 in CVC's thread.

    I'm really excited to keep this old guy alive! I definitely wouldn't go through this trouble if my Marantz downstairs went bad!



    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,347
    cool e-nuff; great to hear!
  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    I love my wife. She watched some Vevo while I was finishing it up and could barely stand the sound. Upon hooking the Yamaha back up she realized how much more you get from good speakers. Makes the next big purchase really easy to justify. :D
    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
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    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 6,714
    That sure does help. No doghouse for you :smile:
    ...
    ...
    Randy/Maine .. SDA-CRS+TL-RTA15TL-Cs1000p
  • Kurt300
    Kurt300 Posts: 302
    Suggest you use an external power amp on those LSis or this will probably happen again, and might not have as good an ending.
  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    Meh, maybe some day if the Yamaha ever kicks the bucket for good.

    Otherwise it works great for now. :)
    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,216
    edited July 2015
    @Inspector 24

    I'd also suggest ANY amp of decent quality on your LSi's..... eventually that Yamaha will blow and you'll be down for a bit.

    Even something as cheap as a Carver AV-705x would be a step up and those can be found for 250 or less on ebay often......

    I know its "working" now, but until you try a dedicated amp you wont really know how much of a difference a dedicated amp can give you at full volume....

    Also what LSi's are you driving with it?



    **edit**

    Dont you have a Parasound HCA-3500 just sitting around? WTH are you not using it to power your fronts lol.....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    edited August 2015
    Oh sure, Inevitably it will fail, but it's survived 15 yrs with only one hiccup, I'll keep it going until it won't go anymore, then take it from there.

    I'm super aware of how awesome separate amps are, thus the fully Big Sky Modded HCA-3500 driving the A9's in the basement, and the 2003a driving the center and surrounds. :cookie:

    However consider it's use...Music for house cleaning and watching Netflix. Unlike the basement it never gets driven at reference or anything approaching full volume. At most -30 on the AVR, and location in the corner right next to a window is less than optimal, further minimizing the benefits of a separate amp.

    Not everyone drives every system at full volume every time they turn it on. That's what the basement is for. :D

    It's driving LSi15's and LSiC and a tiny 32" TV. :blush:

    Why not hook up the 3500? It's massive, there's no room for it upstairs, and benefit would be little to none considering it's use. :)

    If I get curious I'll take the 15's to the basement for it's better location and acoustic treatments. Secretly I'm afraid that would ruin my wife and I, then we'd have to go fully modded 15's or something more expensive like LSiM 705's or something. :lol:

    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
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    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    Awww crap.....

    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
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    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • Kurt300
    Kurt300 Posts: 302
    nbrowser wrote: »
    And now you've just provided us, enablers with enough ammunition to poke and prod you to try those LSi15s on a big amp...let me be the first...

    DO IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT! :)

    Remember the Alka Seltzer commercials from the 70's? "Try it, you'll like it." :)

  • 8 months later, Darn thing started doing it again! Guess I'd better finally replace those resistors...

    In the mean time a Marantz SR7002 with a bad HDMI board I got from a friend is making a good stand in.

    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

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    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,235
    Sometimes you just have to let stuff go to it's proper resting place. lol
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Just like Jack...I'll never let it go! But really, I'm super impressed with how well it drives the LSi15's for an AVR, better than the Marantz 7002 (which sounds fine, but doesn't get the same volume and dynamics for music) So I'll keep polishing this old ****. And I can't justify buying anything new...they're really just glorified TV speakers, 95% of what they do is watching Futurama, Bob's Burgers, Archer and other Netflix content. :lol:

    Back apart once again, this time took the display board out to touch up some crappy looking solder joints...maybe the display won't flicker now.
    v2qz6truiq14.jpg

    On replacing the resistors, is it as simple as hitting RS/electronics surplus shop and matching the values stamped on there?
    9vdw4aj5ibgg.jpg
    qqadlrqt6mi2.jpg
    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • Finally getting back to this, they were in fact 15ohm, grabbed some new ones and went to it. Quite a bit larger than the factory parts which I'm fine with...took just an ounce of creativity to fit them in the same space and the foil on the PCB had dela
    minated requiring a little point to point wiring.
    9kk39dzvlwi6.jpeg
    6b21rqzklhqu.jpeg

    Also took the opportunity to clean up the volume pot so it works again and repair a bunch of other poor looking solder joints including a bunch on the display, bringing all the dead pixels back to life.

    o1biwz78806m.jpeg

    Glad to have it back. I prefer the the sound of the LSi's on this amp over the stand in Marantz SR7001.
    Thanks for the help everybody!
    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • tip o' the cap. nice.
    Love the Yamaha Natural Sound.
  • Nice job! I tried to repair the rlod on my old ps3 once, but couldn't get past the top cover.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • Polkie2009
    Polkie2009 Posts: 3,835
    Great job on fixing this Inspector, sounds like you fixed a few more points that would eventually give you some problems. Here's hoping that the AVR will run for a long time. ;)
  • Did the Amp work again Inspector24 ?
  • I have identical amp doing the same thing,my resistors measure fine... and ive soldered the dry joints ..mine wont even come on at all now :#
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