Polk RTI A9 Home Theatre setup - Power Amp Crown XLS 2002 vs Emotiva xpa-2

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  • JCsound
    JCsound Posts: 29
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    gp4jesus wrote: »
    JC: "...to fully gut* the original tweeter from its housing and permanently implement the change. "
    How tough was that*?

    Also where did you buy those Outriggers? I want to fit them to my 'A7s.

    Finally, I upgraded any and all wire inside* that carries midrange w/AR 12 gage; bass drivers w/8 gage. I did not upgrade any wire between XOs & tweeters - I think its adequate (oops?) I immediately noticed fuller male voices (CC) and tighter, "thumpier" drums, etc (LCR)
    * all speakers

    On a scale from 1 to 10, 10 being the highest it is about a 7. You will need a dremel tool, and once you start to remove the original tweeter there is no going back. It will be ruined.
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  • JCsound
    JCsound Posts: 29
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    go4jesus. PM me and I'll give you the info for the outriggers.
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  • JCsound
    JCsound Posts: 29
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    Oh by the way I meant to say 10 being the hardest.
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
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    Tweeters (or most anything): you get what you pay for
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • JCsound
    JCsound Posts: 29
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    DSkip wrote: »
    I don't get why you would buy a speaker then replace the parts in an attempt to make it better. You devalue the speaker for good reason. It's like putting big slicks on a stock civic. 'Better' only applies if it fits the design principle of the product.

    Sell the speakers and get a new one that fits your idea of good sound. In the instance where an upgrade is available, either direct from the company or from a very reputable speaker designer, then go at it. Otherwise, let it be. There are a plethora of reasons you don't just go slapping new drivers in a speaker.

    Why would Saleen grab a perfectly good mustang and change it, or Hennessey take apart a brand new dodge viper or AMG change almost everything in a perfectly good Mercedes Benz?

    Because there is always room for improvement. The reason why Polk didn't do certain things to their speakers is not because they are perfect the way they are, it is because making more improvements to their speakers would not only cost more and have to be sold at a different maket value, which will throw off their financial goals but would also compete with their higher end model.

    I'm not really planing on selling my speakers, but if I ever do..... It would be to someone that can appreciate the changes made to them.

    Respectfully,

    JC
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  • JCsound
    JCsound Posts: 29
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    DSkip. One does not need to be a speaker GURU to experiment with speakers. Besides, you have no idea what my background or knowledge about speakers is.
    You'll be surprised what one might find through experimenting.
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    edited January 2016
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    "DSkip wrote: »
    ...realize that what I may notice as a severe detriment in change may not even be noticeable to you... ...I like ribbon tweeters, but not in conventional boxes. Why? There is a massive integration issue between the airiness of the tweeter and the confinement of the woofer. Many do not pick up on this issue...
    ...or can't hear it. I envy you, Skip. I'm 58 and counting.

    My "maturity" and exposure to concerts, extended good & not-so-good-but-loud car stereo tuning sessions, & high powered 2ch/HT has taken its toll. So unfortunately for me, it's unlikely I could appreciate what a ribbon could deliver mounted & paired correctly.

    Cheers
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,825
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    gp4jesus wrote: »
    BEAUTIFUL work!! Well thought out.
    F1nut wrote: »
    This is a mod I did on my RTiA7/CSiA6/FXiA6's for much the same reason, the tweeter was too hot*. I felt the mod** addressed that issue quite nicely.
    You didn't change any values - the component** upgrade** cooled the tweeters' "heat*?"

    Other than getting rid of the stock bypass cap, no. Bypass caps
    impart nasty artifacts and are one of the reasons for a bright top end.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    edited January 2016
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    F1nut wrote: »
    ...Other than getting rid of the stock bypass cap, no. Bypass caps
    impart nasty artifacts and are one of the reasons for a bright top end.
    So the BP* cap* is at least partially to blame for edgy top end? IIRC the BP* cap* value .47uf?

    If true, as a interim measure, till I have 2-4 uninterrupted hours to triamp** my LR and/or CC, my next day off I'm getting busy w/my soldering iron, sending that puppy* to a land fill!!
    ** I have everything BUT the "2-4 uninterrupted hours!" Several have given me some ideas to do** a few little itty-bitty things a little itty bit better.

    Tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,825
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    IMO, yes it is partially to blame.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • JCsound
    JCsound Posts: 29
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    gp4jesus wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    ...Other than getting rid of the stock bypass cap, no. Bypass caps
    impart nasty artifacts and are one of the reasons for a bright top end.
    So the BP* cap* is at least partially to blame for edgy topend? IIRC the BP* cap* value .47uf?

    If true, as a interim measure, till I have 2-4 uninterrupted hours to triamp** my LR and/or CC, my next day off I'm getting busy w/my soldering iron, sending that puppy* to a land fill!!
    ** I have everything BUT the "2-4 uninterrupted hours!"

    Tony

    Tony, that sounds very interesting. I'm curious to know how the Rti A9's/A7's would sound tri-amped. Do you have an electronic 3 way crossover, which amps will you be using?
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  • JCsound
    JCsound Posts: 29
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    Has anyone here tried the new Crown XLS series amps?. I'm curious about the new DSP changes they made to them. Specially the new band pass they added to them.
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
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    JCsound wrote: »
    Has anyone here tried the new Crown XLS series amps?. I'm curious about the new DSP changes they made to them. Specially the new band pass they added to them.
    I've used Crown XLS1500 amps to run some fairly large JBL PA speakers, and they perform quite well in that role - i.e., plenty of power from such a lightweight box. And power is what you notice from pro gear. I'm not convinced they have the detail or clarity for a home system, but I'll admit I haven't tried it - just my gut feeling. I've only run them full range, however, so haven't fooled with the various crossover modes.
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  • JCsound
    JCsound Posts: 29
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    mdaudioguy, the XLS are very powerful indeed. I own an XLS 1500 but I was referring at the new series. "XLS 1502"
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
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    JCsound wrote: »
    mdaudioguy, the XLS are very powerful indeed. I own an XLS 1500 but I was referring at the new series. "XLS 1502"

    OIC. Didn't realize the DriveCore 2 series was out.
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    edited January 2016
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    JCsound wrote: »
    I'm curious to know how the Rti A9's/A7's would sound tri-amped.
    Me too (A7)! Let me give you some less-than-straight-forward facts concerning the CSi A6:
    mids XO'd/LP'd @ 1.5hz & 3.8hz.
    tweeter XO'd/HP'd @ 2.2Khz.

    While I hope I'm wrong, I believe the 'A9 MTM* may be "XO'd" in a similar** fashion. If that's true, it* requires its own XO w/independent HP & LP settings fed by a 3 way splitter.
    ** different frequencies of course
    JCsound wrote: »
    Do you have an electronic 3 way crossover?
    Using one now* for 2 way XO duties between mid & bass drivers. I have another in reserve for my CC.
    * check my sig
    JCsound wrote: »
    Which amps will you be using?
    Again, check my sig though a Rotel RB-985 (not listed) is under consideration, too. Right now time & QUALITY solitude prevent evaluation of the best choice between the 855 & 985 for LR (MT only) versus CC duties. Each set of LR bass drivers will have their own amp. Likely the 2 Belles 1s* but not before I give Mackie 1400 a whirl.

    Crazy? Maybe... ...but I have the gear & "this isn't my first rodeo" bi/tri or quad* amping. "Effortless" @ any volume level described my HT* way back in '94-'95
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 2,165
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    F1nut wrote: »
    To view the photos, click on the shaded gray boxes at the bottom of the pages.

    Saw the pics, pretty sweet indeed, would love to hear the sound!!

    Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2

    Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman
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  • JCsound
    JCsound Posts: 29
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    I finally got the courage and the time to play with my speakers again, I removed the LP crossover.......holy $&+t! I'm running the XLS 1500 with the lowpass crossover set at 125hz and it made a huge difference. It is like the amp is finally able to grab the speakers by the balls and show them who the boss is. Much more dynamic and punchy sound. In my opinion, worth the time and effort!
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    edited February 2016
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    To JC: YYUUUUUPP!!! PM sent
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • JCsound
    JCsound Posts: 29
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    Man I'm loving the new bass, I just have to do the other side now. :s
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
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    To JC: YYYUUUUUUUUUUUPP!!!!!
    Another PM, my brother
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    edited February 2016
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    JCsound wrote: »
    Man I'm loving the new bass, I just have to do the other side now. :s
    Don't jump on the other speaker just yet. While I'm confident you ARE hearing "betta bass," take little time to verify it's truly "mo' betta'" and not just different.

    Spend time listening to just the bottoms, together carefully balanced L to R and separately. The no-filter speaker (NFS) is noticably more percussive, dynamic, or "thumpy."

    Try these 2 simple tests:
    1. set your amp's channel gains the same. Slowly turn the "V" up. As you move past the 1/2 way point you may hear the NFS get louder than the other.
    2. as you move up to insane V levels, well recorded drums or other "bass torture" passages may cause the stocker to make non-musical noises while the NFS just "hangs in there."

    Finally, when you "do" the other* speaker*, replace the mid & bass driver wire too, per my long-winded PM, but only in that one*, & conduct tests 1 & 2 again.

    Expect the rewired speaker to be "the loud(er)" speaker at some point during those tests. During test 2, anticipate it* to "hang in there!"

    Cheers Tony

    PS: 12 ga should do for the mids but check my PM on where to buy heavier for the bass drivers.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • JCsound
    JCsound Posts: 29
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    Thanks for the tips Tony. I have been doing A-B comparisons for two days now. It is without doubt an improvement, I replaced the woofer wires with 12awg also. I will be doing the other speaker today, can't wait to hear the sound with both speakers modified. I look forward to hearing about your speakers being triamped.

    Anyone here tried the new crown XLS amps?
    They are so new I can really find much reviews online.
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
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    I'm thrilled about your "new" speakers! Have you determined if the rewire netted improvements after removing the bass LP?

    Do you have or plan to add a sub to your system? If yes, then I'd say you're finished w/ your system's response below ~500hz.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • JCsound
    JCsound Posts: 29
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    Honestly I can't really tell if the wires made a difference, since I removed the LP crossover and did the wiring at the same time. I do have a sub, but there absolutely no need for it with music. This speakers make so much clean, loud bass I sometimes have to check and make sure my sub is off.
    I have been looking into minidsp, you can do some crazy stuff with it apparently. I might go that route when I finally have the time and courage to remove the rest of the crossovers.
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
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    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
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    PM sent
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
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    PM sent to JC sound a while back
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,073
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    DSkip wrote: »
    After a few more speakers, I realized what it was.

    64447318.jpg
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
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    DSkip wrote: »
    ...It is one of many aha moments I've had that led to me growing as a critical listener. They still happen to me.
    LOL! Me too!
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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