What's with this new Friends and Family sale?

24

Comments

  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,307
    edited November 2015
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    afterburnt wrote: »
    huh how is that?
    Maybe because it puts the screws to the dealers trying to make a living doing HT installs
    DSkip wrote: »
    The F&F sale is fine, but 50% off all gear is not. When this is a common occurrence, it hurts the company and dealers alike. Who will buy gear at full MSRP or on a decent sale when everyone knows if I wait another 6 months, I can get it at half price?

    I'd be very surprised if the higher dollar gear gets significant price drops again. I could be wrong, but for the long term of Polk, I hope I'm not.
    Dislike, but insightful. I hadn't considered this before, as I thought F&F was sort of only available to "us". I can understand and respect these perspectives, though; that does suck.

    I'm very curious about the 705's and would like to try some at some point, but my conscience won't let me at full retail when I'm relatively satisfied with 703's and a sub in a dual purpose system. Further, I'd always feel tentative about the purchase, always wondering whether a F&F were right around the corner. Kinda feel like I'd need Polk to officially state, "no more LSiM through F&F ever" in order for me to feel comfortable paying retail on a pair. It's not that I think they're not worth it, I just don't want to pay twice the cost, obviously, on something of significant cost to me. Indeed a precedent has been set, good or bad.

    If I weren't already in a comfortable position speaker wise, and I *really* wanted some LSiM's right now, in my personal position/budget for comfortable audio acquisition, and with knowledge of possible F&F, and with what I've learned here of the benefits of buying used, I wouldn't be looking at new anyway, and would probably be trying to find something used or gray market (as have others in their recent acquisitions of the 705/707 damaged box opportunity), unless I knew of a dealer who could comfortably offer the typical 33% discount that the gray market seems to follow. I would much rather see that money go to someone I know. At the very least, the knowledge of the deals of previous F&F slows my purchase decision tremendously, if not halts it altogether at this point.

    I don't know how widely known F&F is, but given that the only way I know of to get an invitation is to sign up through a visit to the homepage, if F&F is generally limited to site visitors and forum members, and they find a way to make sure the program is not abused, I'd like to see it continue as it has. Or at least just once more B)

    Just my .02 from the passionate Polk fan consumer side of things.
    Post edited by msg on
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  • jeremymarcinko
    jeremymarcinko Posts: 3,785
    edited November 2015
    The friends and family sale is like $5 Tuesday at the movie theater. Many people are willing to pay a premium for opening weekend tickets, and those who are not. Discounts offered to a select few or for a limited time gives the company an opportunity to capture both markets. Just like a senior citizens discount at a restaurant. There is a portion of the market that is ready, willing, and able to purchase products without much research or at their local big box store and the savvy or more informed that will wait because they have knowledge of the sale in the first place. Yes I am one of those who waits until Tuesday to see a film and one that waits for discounts to purchase products. A friends and family sale helps to increase revenue by capturing a market that may not otherwise purchase, and continue to sell products at a premium to the less informed. Another way to look at it is, is it more profitable to sell 1 product at a premium or 10 at a discount? Keep in mind the overhead cost of warehousing unsold inventory, products becoming obsolete, and advertising expense associated. Not to mention the Time-value of money; revenues earned today are more valuable than revenues earned a year from now, when income earned today can be reinvested in other opportunities.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,307
    this makes sense to me.
    I disabled signatures.
  • If Polk wants to retain strong dealer network & customer loyalty they've gotta stop "giving away" their product twice a year. Easy for me to say I benefited from 2 F&F in 4 months (11/14 & 3/15) plus they have not sent me an email on this latest sale...
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,307
    Do you mean customer loyalty to the dealers, or to Polk?
    I disabled signatures.
  • gce
    gce Posts: 2,158
    By the looks of the F&F I got in my email it looks like this is for everyone and won't be 50% off across the board. There's no code to put in at checkout so everyone that logs into the Polk site will get the discounts, at least that's what it looks like.

    But hey, it's a sale none the less.

    Anaheim Hills CA,
    HT 5.1: Anthem MRX 720 / BDP-Denon DBT1713UD / Polkaudio LSiM703 / W4S mAmp's / Polkaudio LSiM706c / Polkaudio LSiM702F/X's / SVS PC12-NSD / Panasonic TC P55VT30

    2 Channel: Rogue RP-5 / WireWorld Electra power cord / Marantz TT-15S1/ Ortofon - Quintet Black MC / Marantz NA8005 DAC / W4S mAmp's / Synology DS 216+ll-4TB / Polkaudio LSiM703
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,307
    DSkip wrote: »
    msg wrote: »
    Do you mean customer loyalty to the dealers, or to Polk?

    It goes hand in hand. think of it as a snowball effect.

    I think it can go hand in hand, sure. I was asking because I'm already pretty heavily invested in Polk product that I enjoy (and saddled with some I don't enjoy), with desire for additional pieces to complete an existing system, and also to outfit secondary ones, and so I'd be a loyal owner/customer regardless of whether I purchase through Polk or a dealer with whom I've built a personal relationship and have entrusted to take care of my interests.

    For me, if anything, sales opportunities would make me more loyal to the brand/line as it lets me affordably get more heavily invested in the product I like. In fact, I'd say it keeps me in the Polk product.
    I disabled signatures.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,032
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Don't get to excited. I doubt you'll see LSiM's at significant discounts if at all.
    Actually that would be the perfect thing to do so. Get them in more peoples hands like mine. I would love to spend quality time with the 705's or the 707's. If they rocked my world, I would do a full Theater package. But without hearing them first I can't even consider them. I only heard the 703's and I thought they where very nice. I'd put them up against my Focal 807 Bookshelf speakers.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • New24k
    New24k Posts: 74
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    afterburnt wrote: »
    huh how is that?

    Maybe because it puts the screws to the dealers trying to make a living doing HT installs

    By that logic - Polk shouldn't sell to the public directly at all then.

    Because it is taking profit away from its dealers.

    It just doesn't work that way :)
  • New24k
    New24k Posts: 74
    edited November 2015
    mantis wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Don't get to excited. I doubt you'll see LSiM's at significant discounts if at all.
    Actually that would be the perfect thing to do so. Get them in more peoples hands like mine. I would love to spend quality time with the 705's or the 707's. If they rocked my world, I would do a full Theater package. But without hearing them first I can't even consider them. I only heard the 703's and I thought they where very nice. I'd put them up against my Focal 807 Bookshelf speakers.

    Exactly.

    There are no stores within 150 miles of me (and I live in a major city) that carry the LSiM speakers - none.

    I am told that I am far from being the only one who can't hear or audition these speakers as not a lot of dealers carry them.
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    Dealers can give discounts and most do give discounts. We give these discounts based on loyalty, volume, and installation size, etc. What dealers can't do is publicly publish discount pricing. Why?, because it then becomes a frenzy of volume that over all crushes the market of items.

    That's exactly what happened with the 1st F&F there was a general discount code that was emailed to F&F members. The "General code" ended up on all those discount coupon websites/word of mouth and spread like wild fire completely demolishing the intentions of F&F. This caused Polk just to shut it down completely no matter if you had a code or not.

    Dan, (Mantis) do you remember when the Pioneer Elite series was an Elite dealer only product? Now they are being sold on the WWW. below dealer costs.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    New24k wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    afterburnt wrote: »
    huh how is that?

    Maybe because it puts the screws to the dealers trying to make a living doing HT installs

    By that logic - Polk shouldn't sell to the public directly at all then.

    Because it is taking profit away from its dealers.

    It just doesn't work that way :)

    Then neither should Sony or any other major brand. These huge discounted sales should be far and few between as dealers get stuck with the inventory at higher prices.

    If they are going to do this on a more frequent basis, some adjustments should be offered to dealers.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • New24k
    New24k Posts: 74
    DSkip wrote: »
    New24k wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    afterburnt wrote: »
    huh how is that?

    Maybe because it puts the screws to the dealers trying to make a living doing HT installs

    By that logic - Polk shouldn't sell to the public directly at all then.

    Because it is taking profit away from its dealers.

    It just doesn't work that way :)

    When Polk sells directly, they sell for MSRP. This is not competing with dealers where you can go to them and get a feel for the product and buy from them, hopefully having it same day in most cases. You can have loyalty both to Polk and your local dealer in this instance.

    Refurb products are an entirely different scenario.

    Polk offers discounts - like the 10% off your first order, some 20% off deals...

    And, as far as local dealers, as stated above, the LSiM line is impossible to audition - very few dealers actually carry them - and of those that do - even fewer actually have them to audition.

    There are no dealers within 150 miles of me - and I live in a major city.
  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,056
    I have a pair of T15s in a box stored away maybe I will get the T50s and the matching T30 center for my daughter's Xmas gift, according to Skip these sound good for a budget HT, not much I need so this might be the steal of the F&F. I know the wife would freak if I got LSIM'S as all the SDA'S are taking up space plus all the others. I guess I will know more tomorrow.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    mantis wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Don't get to excited. I doubt you'll see LSiM's at significant discounts if at all.
    Actually that would be the perfect thing to do so. Get them in more peoples hands like mine. I would love to spend quality time with the 705's or the 707's. If they rocked my world, I would do a full Theater package. But without hearing them first I can't even consider them. I only heard the 703's and I thought they where very nice. I'd put them up against my Focal 807 Bookshelf speakers.

    Come on Dan, you're in the business. What do you think happened to brick and mortar audio shops. The internet killed it by discounts.

    Scenario, and we all do it.
    I go to a customers house or he comes to my place. I pay rent, fuel, utilities etc. Spend half a day or more with the client. I even have gear I paid for to demo. Sit down for a couple hrs or more, put together a quote, send to customer. Call customer back couple days later and he tells me..."I found it cheaper on the internet"

    And you guys wonder why you can't get your ears on them any where or have to drive 150mi...."here's your sign"

    That's why I bailed out of the residential market.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    New24k wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    New24k wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    afterburnt wrote: »
    huh how is that?

    Maybe because it puts the screws to the dealers trying to make a living doing HT installs

    By that logic - Polk shouldn't sell to the public directly at all then.

    Because it is taking profit away from its dealers.

    It just doesn't work that way :)

    When Polk sells directly, they sell for MSRP. This is not competing with dealers where you can go to them and get a feel for the product and buy from them, hopefully having it same day in most cases. You can have loyalty both to Polk and your local dealer in this instance.

    Refurb products are an entirely different scenario.

    Polk offers discounts - like the 10% off your first order, some 20% off deals...

    And, as far as local dealers, as stated above, the LSiM line is impossible to audition - very few dealers actually carry them - and of those that do - even fewer actually have them to audition.

    There are no dealers within 150 miles of me - and I live in a major city.

    This how it works down here with the higher end LSiMs. My distributor has them in a demo HT rooms. I can take a client there for the demo, but the client can't purchase direct from distributor.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • New24k
    New24k Posts: 74
    edited November 2015
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    mantis wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Don't get to excited. I doubt you'll see LSiM's at significant discounts if at all.
    Actually that would be the perfect thing to do so. Get them in more peoples hands like mine. I would love to spend quality time with the 705's or the 707's. If they rocked my world, I would do a full Theater package. But without hearing them first I can't even consider them. I only heard the 703's and I thought they where very nice. I'd put them up against my Focal 807 Bookshelf speakers.

    Come on Dan, you're in the business. What do you think happened to brick and mortar audio shops. The internet killed it by discounts.

    Scenario, and we all do it.
    I go to a customers house or he comes to my place. I pay rent, fuel, utilities etc. Spend half a day or more with the client. I even have gear I paid for to demo. Sit down for a couple hrs or more, put together a quote, send to customer. Call customer back couple days later and he tells me..."I found it cheaper on the internet"

    And you guys wonder why you can't get your ears on them any where or have to drive 150mi...."here's your sign"

    That's why I bailed out of the residential market.

    Well, what do you think would turn that around?

    Why can't you say - OK, well, I can come down on my price to be close to the Internet price plus their shipping cost.

    And add a small premium or whatever for your service.

    I would MUCH rather buy from a local dealer and pay a little more.

    But there are WAY too many local dealers who have the "I am not giving you a great deal like the Internet" attitude - and lose the sale entirely.

    Would you rather make a little less profit - or no profit at all?

    Ask Best Buy - they were declared dead until they price matched.



  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,307
    edited November 2015
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Come on Dan, you're in the business. What do you think happened to brick and mortar audio shops. The internet killed it by discounts.

    Scenario, and we all do it.
    I go to a customers house or he comes to my place. I pay rent, fuel, utilities etc. Spend half a day or more with the client. I even have gear I paid for to demo. Sit down for a couple hrs or more, put together a quote, send to customer. Call customer back couple days later and he tells me..."I found it cheaper on the internet"

    And you guys wonder why you can't get your ears on them any where or have to drive 150mi...."here's your sign"

    That's why I bailed out of the residential market.

    This does suck. I've had this discussion with acquaintances about shady purchase process. It was related to me years ago by a fellow employee who used to work as a tech at a small well known Mom & Pop bike shop. This was in the early days of internet commerce. I was talking about building a bike and had been speccing out components and such. We got to talking, and he was telling me about the people who go into a shop and soak up all the time, knowledge, and experience of the shop techs and owner/sales staff, and then leave with that information and proceed to purchase online at a discount. Erik's statement about this was, "If you [general] go into a small business shop and use staff to gain knowledge and information and then leave and buy online, you're a dick." He was right. It was insightful, and it stuck with me specifically where small businesses are concerned, so I try to keep my money there if I tap them for expertise. I can't imagine trying to keep a product based business running these days with the advantages offered by online retailers. Used to be it was enough to be able to provide instant gratification of product, something available only to a real shop, but Amazon, for instance, has been killing that advantage with Prime. That bike shop is still around, though.
    I disabled signatures.
  • New24k
    New24k Posts: 74
    msg wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Come on Dan, you're in the business. What do you think happened to brick and mortar audio shops. The internet killed it by discounts.

    Scenario, and we all do it.
    I go to a customers house or he comes to my place. I pay rent, fuel, utilities etc. Spend half a day or more with the client. I even have gear I paid for to demo. Sit down for a couple hrs or more, put together a quote, send to customer. Call customer back couple days later and he tells me..."I found it cheaper on the internet"

    And you guys wonder why you can't get your ears on them any where or have to drive 150mi...."here's your sign"

    That's why I bailed out of the residential market.

    This does suck. I've had this discussion with acquaintances about shady purchase process. It was related to me years ago by a fellow employee who used to work as a tech at a small well known Mom & Pop bike shop. This was in the early days of internet commerce. I was talking about building a bike and had been speccing out components and such. We got to talking, and he was telling me about the people who go into a shop and soak up all the time, knowledge, and experience of the shop techs and owner/sales staff, and then leave with that information and proceed to purchase online at a discount. Erik's statement about this was, "If you [general] go into a small business shop and use staff to gain knowledge and information and then leave and buy online, you're a dick." He was right. It was insightful, and it stuck with me specifically where small businesses are concerned, so I try to keep my money there if I tap them for expertise. I can't imagine trying to keep a product based business running these days with the advantages offered by online retailers. Used to be it was enough to be able to provide instant gratification of product, something available only to a real shop, but Amazon, for instance, has been killing that advantage with Prime. That bike shop is still around, though.

    You're a dick for wanting to save money...?

    Couldn't the same be said for the owner of the company - You're a dick for not coming down in price so that you are closer to the Internet's price - and making a little less money that you are used to - to make the sale?

    :)
  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,056
    My cousin has a mountain bike shop in Boulder Colorado he says he makes money from the rich kids that order bikes off the Internet with mom and pops money then bring it to his shop to assemble and service them laughing as they could of saved themselves the hassle and bought local to begin with.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    New24k wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    mantis wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Don't get to excited. I doubt you'll see LSiM's at significant discounts if at all.
    Actually that would be the perfect thing to do so. Get them in more peoples hands like mine. I would love to spend quality time with the 705's or the 707's. If they rocked my world, I would do a full Theater package. But without hearing them first I can't even consider them. I only heard the 703's and I thought they where very nice. I'd put them up against my Focal 807 Bookshelf speakers.

    Come on Dan, you're in the business. What do you think happened to brick and mortar audio shops. The internet killed it by discounts.

    Scenario, and we all do it.
    I go to a customers house or he comes to my place. I pay rent, fuel, utilities etc. Spend half a day or more with the client. I even have gear I paid for to demo. Sit down for a couple hrs or more, put together a quote, send to customer. Call customer back couple days later and he tells me..."I found it cheaper on the internet"

    And you guys wonder why you can't get your ears on them any where or have to drive 150mi...."here's your sign"

    That's why I bailed out of the residential market.

    Well, what do you think would turn that around?

    Why can't you say - OK, well, I can come down on my price to be close to the Internet price plus their shipping cost.

    And add a small premium or whatever for your service.

    I would MUCH rather buy from a local dealer and pay a little more.

    But there are WAY too many local dealers who have the "I am not giving you a great deal like the Internet" attitude - and lose the sale entirely.

    Would you rather make a little less profit - or no profit at all?

    Ask Best Buy - they were declared dead until they price matched.



    A lot of times it's to late and they already hit the buy button. Other times internet pricing is 5% to 10% below my dealer cost, free shipping and no sales tax out of state. It's a dog eat dog world I know, like I said that's why I don't cater to residential market any more.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    No, your a Dick when you complain about not being able to audition a piece of gear because buying habits dictate that's not feasible anymore.

    Want to change that scenario ? Then buy from a brick and mortar store, get to know the people and talk shop. Yeah, it might cost you a hundred or so more, but the benefits are a local shop for warranty issues, human relations and maybe even make a friend along the way, and obviously auditions before purchases.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • New24k
    New24k Posts: 74
    edited November 2015
    tonyb wrote: »
    No, your a Dick when you complain about not being able to audition a piece of gear because buying habits dictate that's not feasible anymore.

    Want to change that scenario ? Then buy from a brick and mortar store, get to know the people and talk shop. Yeah, it might cost you a hundred or so more, but the benefits are a local shop for warranty issues, human relations and maybe even make a friend along the way, and obviously auditions before purchases.

    There are several dealers near me that have a lot of speakers in this price range and even more expensive speakers to audition.

    For some reason no one want's to carry these Polk LSiMs...

    So you can't hear them.

    It has NOTHING to do with buying habits - as a lot of other speakers at the price, and higher, are available to audition.
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,307
    edited November 2015
    New24k wrote: »
    msg wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Come on Dan, you're in the business. What do you think happened to brick and mortar audio shops. The internet killed it by discounts.

    Scenario, and we all do it.
    I go to a customers house or he comes to my place. I pay rent, fuel, utilities etc. Spend half a day or more with the client. I even have gear I paid for to demo. Sit down for a couple hrs or more, put together a quote, send to customer. Call customer back couple days later and he tells me..."I found it cheaper on the internet"

    And you guys wonder why you can't get your ears on them any where or have to drive 150mi...."here's your sign"

    That's why I bailed out of the residential market.

    This does suck. I've had this discussion with acquaintances about shady purchase process. It was related to me years ago by a fellow employee who used to work as a tech at a small well known Mom & Pop bike shop. This was in the early days of internet commerce. I was talking about building a bike and had been speccing out components and such. We got to talking, and he was telling me about the people who go into a shop and soak up all the time, knowledge, and experience of the shop techs and owner/sales staff, and then leave with that information and proceed to purchase online at a discount. Erik's statement about this was, "If you [general] go into a small business shop and use staff to gain knowledge and information and then leave and buy online, you're a dick." He was right. It was insightful, and it stuck with me specifically where small businesses are concerned, so I try to keep my money there if I tap them for expertise. I can't imagine trying to keep a product based business running these days with the advantages offered by online retailers. Used to be it was enough to be able to provide instant gratification of product, something available only to a real shop, but Amazon, for instance, has been killing that advantage with Prime. That bike shop is still around, though.

    You're a dick for wanting to save money...?

    Couldn't the same be said for the owner of the company - You're a dick for not coming down in price so that you are closer to the Internet's price - and making a little less money that you are used to - to make the sale?
    No, that's missing the point. The idea here is that it's a jerky thing to do to *use* the resources of a small business to educate oneself and make a decision, and then buy elsewhere to save a few dollars. To me, it is essentially stealing to go into a shop doing this knowing you have no intention of buying there.

    My personal opinion is no, the owner is not a jerk for higher pricing. His operating costs are higher. Where profit is concerned, even still, they can charge whatever they like, but if they're unusually expensive to the point that they're not even competitive, their business will suffer, especially these days. Though it's frustrating at times as a consumer, I would have to side with a manufacturer in not offering regular direct access to product at hugely discounted prices if it were to come as the cost of distributorships and places to go and be able to get hands on product. That does a disservice to all.
    Post edited by msg on
    I disabled signatures.
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    edited November 2015
    New24k wrote: »
    msg wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Come on Dan, you're in the business. What do you think happened to brick and mortar audio shops. The internet killed it by discounts.

    Scenario, and we all do it.
    I go to a customers house or he comes to my place. I pay rent, fuel, utilities etc. Spend half a day or more with the client. I even have gear I paid for to demo. Sit down for a couple hrs or more, put together a quote, send to customer. Call customer back couple days later and he tells me..."I found it cheaper on the internet"

    And you guys wonder why you can't get your ears on them any where or have to drive 150mi...."here's your sign"

    That's why I bailed out of the residential market.

    This does suck. I've had this discussion with acquaintances about shady purchase process. It was related to me years ago by a fellow employee who used to work as a tech at a small well known Mom & Pop bike shop. This was in the early days of internet commerce. I was talking about building a bike and had been speccing out components and such. We got to talking, and he was telling me about the people who go into a shop and soak up all the time, knowledge, and experience of the shop techs and owner/sales staff, and then leave with that information and proceed to purchase online at a discount. Erik's statement about this was, "If you [general] go into a small business shop and use staff to gain knowledge and information and then leave and buy online, you're a dick." He was right. It was insightful, and it stuck with me specifically where small businesses are concerned, so I try to keep my money there if I tap them for expertise. I can't imagine trying to keep a product based business running these days with the advantages offered by online retailers. Used to be it was enough to be able to provide instant gratification of product, something available only to a real shop, but Amazon, for instance, has been killing that advantage with Prime. That bike shop is still around, though.

    You're a dick for wanting to save money...?

    Couldn't the same be said for the owner of the company - You're a dick for not coming down in price so that you are closer to the Internet's price - and making a little less money that you are used to - to make the sale?

    :)

    Economics 101: Small business vs the monsters
    You have two choices...Monsters-high volume cheap price and sometimes poor customer service.
    Or Small businees-lower volume higher price, mom and pop customer service
    Do the math dude

    When I buy all my lawn equipment and large power tools I go shop home depot/lowes pick what I want. Find the local authorized repair shop/mom&pop dealer pay the extra money....you know why, because if I have an issue I don't have to fight with the big guys and have to take it to mom&pop anyway.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • New24k
    New24k Posts: 74
    edited November 2015
    Well, anyway... :)

    It appears that the only larger speakers in this FF sale starting tomorrow are the T and TSx series...

    Or at least that's what it says when you click on the FF "coupon" in the email - although it says that they are the Back Friday and Cyber Monday sales...?

    http://www.polkaudio.com/sale/l/608?PageSize=1000
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,307
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    New24k wrote: »
    You're a dick for wanting to save money...?

    Couldn't the same be said for the owner of the company - You're a dick for not coming down in price so that you are closer to the Internet's price - and making a little less money that you are used to - to make the sale?

    :)
    Economics 101: Small business vs the monsters
    You have to choices...Monsters-high volume cheap price and sometimes poor customer service.
    Or Small businees-lower volume higher price, mom and pop customer service
    Do the math dude

    When I buy all my lawn equipment and large power tools I go shop home depot/lowes pick what I want. Find the local authorized repair shop/mom&pop dealer pay the extra money....you know why, because if I have an issue I don't have to fight with the big guys and have to take it to mom&pop anyway.
    ^^^ this - volume.
    selling at small margins as a low volume, small business will not generate enough money to keep the lights on, let alone allow its owners to make a living.
    accepting a small profit on merchandise or service only works with high volume, which is how big box stores stay in business and, unfortunately, how they ate up all the small businesses who couldn't compete in volume. big box stores with nationwide presence can also buffer depressed sales in lower performing stores while still being able to keep them open. what small business can do that?
    I disabled signatures.
  • New24k
    New24k Posts: 74
    I totally agree - as with everything the Internet has done - it has been both positive and negative.

    Depends on which side of the spectrum you are on...
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    I'm not knocking it, "it is what it is" also has made portions of my work easier. The business that started ways back are usually in decent shape. It hurts startups more than anything else.
    But you can't complain if you can't find it local.

    Word to the wise: "No good deed goes unpunished"
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a