Tube question..........

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muncybob
muncybob Posts: 2,970
in 2 Channel Audio
Tubes are still a fairly new world to me and I have yet to roll any, but I'm working up to it. I just realized that I think I have 2 different type tubes in my pre phono section. A pair of 12AX7 and a pair of 6DJ8. Is this unusual....would I not be better off with all the same/matched tubes?
Yep, my name really is Bob.
Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub.
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
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    himmmmm.....If there are two different type of tubes and it's working, it might be that your pre is designed to use that way. It's a little unusual design to use two different tubes for left and right channel but there are circuits that uses each half of the 12AX7 and 6DJ8 for each channel. Or it might be that it uses a single 6DJ8 (or 12AX7) for phono stage and the other tube for the preamp gain stage.

    What pre is that?
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • doctor r
    doctor r Posts: 837
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    These are not interchangable. Your circuit probably has one 6dj8 and one 12ax7 per channel.
    The tubes have different conditions in which they operate at their best audio performance and the circuit is designed for those conditions. Small 9 pin tubes may also have different electrical connections for the pins that in some cases can cause damage to your amp if you do not do a little research. Google "12ax7 equivalents" and "6dj8 equivalents" to investigate those possibilities. There are a lot of 12ax7 varieties as well as 6dj8 to try both new production and from the classic years. Have fun. Roll carefully and be prepared for some great experiences.
    Rick
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  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,970
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    The pre is a Dynaco Pas4, I think the good doctor is correct in that it's one of each for each channel. My question was prompted by a comment on another forum that all 12ax7's in the phono stage is the way to go.................
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub.
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
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    I have Pas3 MKII and it uses all 12AX7 for all 6 tubes. The Pas3MKII and Pas4 looks very similar but totally different circuit. I believe Pas3MKII uses each half of the tube for the left and right channel. Pas 4 uses different tubes for the phono stage from the gain stage. Like the Dr. said, they are not interchangeable so you need to roll other AX7 in the current AX7 spots and other 6DJ8 in the 6DJ8 spots.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,970
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    The phono stage is very quiet and sounds pretty good except that at my age I seem to have developed some tinnitus and maybe related to that I find the higher frequencies a bit harsh while at the same time I love deep bass. Any tubes recommendations to make my ears happy? Currently the 12ax7's are Tungsol and the others are Sylvanias.
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub.
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  • MrBuhl
    MrBuhl Posts: 2,419
    edited September 2015
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    I like the PSVanes that came with my MLP, but have also found that I also like Holland Amperex quite a bit as well. I've tried (in 12ax7) NOS Raytheons, Sylvanias, & PSvanes. The RCA black plates are famed to be really great in 12ax7 but I only just finished the quad I need to try them out. Mine are very reasonable two mica, and supposed to sound very nice. The three mica versions command top dollar but are legendary in my reading anyway.
    Post edited by MrBuhl on
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
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    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    Vincent MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp
    Pho-700 Phono Pre
    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's






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  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,473
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    I am also new to tubes. My only experience is with a Yaqin CD3 tube buffer. With the original tubes the bass was not dynamic and loose. Also both tubes were noisy when tapped. I ordered a noise tested matched pair of NOS Sylvania 6SN7GTB tubes from Brent Jessee. The bass is back and tight. Highs float. Mids and vocals sound very natural. Huge soundstage with depth.
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  • MrBuhl
    MrBuhl Posts: 2,419
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    For your 6Dj8's, I haven't found any I like better than the Holland Amperex so far. I have a set of orange globes I got from Voltz that are just amazing, and also some Bugle Boys that I like very much as well.

    You can get a great deal by getting Holland made Amperex tubes labeled for other companies, (RCA, etc) same as a bugle boy without the BB on the tube. Look for the same plate and getter designs made in Herleen Holland plant. I haven't even found the legendary A frame versions (too expensive usually), but the ones I have still make my ears happy!

    Check out Brent Jesse's site, he gives good tips and describes tube sounds to give you a general guideline on what to look for, I've found it helpful.

    FWIW, I'm regurgitating what my ears have told me and what I've read - I'm pretty new to tubes too - there are many folks on here who have forgotten more than I even start to know!
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
    Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000

    Polk SDA1c modded
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    Yamaha YP-D6
    Soundcraftsmen PCR800
    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    Vincent MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp
    Pho-700 Phono Pre
    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's






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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
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    Try 5751's in the 12AX7 position. Raytheon black plates, Sylvania gray and black plates, RCA black plates and Tung Sol all make great 5751's

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
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    Amperex Holland made great tubes. They are my preferred daily preamp tubes.

    I also like 7025 tubes for preamp spots.

    Brimar (real Brimar CV4004, not rebranded mullard) and Mullard M8137 with box plates are also great for preamp tubes.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • Faustin
    Faustin Posts: 1,149
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Try 5751's in the 12AX7 position. Raytheon black plates, Sylvania gray and black plates, RCA black plates and Tung Sol all make great 5751's

    H9

    Hey H9
    What differences would be experienced using the 5751 in place of the 12ax7? I am pretty new to tubes as well and have done some reading etc to get some more education. IIRC the gain for the 5751 is less than the 12ax7. Besides less volume output, can you expect a different sound??
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  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,970
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    Some great advice that I will be looking into...next question, what is a good/trusted source to obtain tubes from? Since I'm a newbie at this I don't trust the usual auction sites unless somebody can give me the name of a seller that can be trusted.

    I'm also going to look at some updated caps. I got a good deal on this pre and even after updates I think I'm still ahead of the game.
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub.
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  • Jim Shearer
    Jim Shearer Posts: 369
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    Where you buy depends in part on what tubes you need. For my Dynakitparts.com amp I have bought from Jim McShane:
    http://www.mcshanedesign.net/
    may not be the cheapest place to buy, but he thoroughly tests the tubes, and has provided me solid advise.

    Cheers, Jim
    A day without music is like a day without food.
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  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,871
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    i second Jim McShane.
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  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,970
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    Wow....lotsa tubes!! Why would he not suggest the 5751 into the phono stage?
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub.
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  • MrBuhl
    MrBuhl Posts: 2,419
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    ^^ was wondering that too! ^^
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
    Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000

    Polk SDA1c modded
    Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
    Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded)
    A/L 1000VA Dreadnought Canare 4s11 SDA cable
    SACD Marantz DV8300
    Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD
    Yamaha YP-D6
    Soundcraftsmen PCR800
    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    Vincent MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp
    Pho-700 Phono Pre
    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's






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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
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    For phono stage, 5751 has less gain than 12AX7 so it may not be suitable as a sub. Using 5751 instead of the 12AX7 may reduce your phono stage gain even though it will lower some pops, hiss and crackles at the same time.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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