lsim 705 vs lsim 707 differences?

damnusernames · April 2015

Hi,

My first post on the forum.

I purchased 705'S 2 weeks ago, I have to return them to the store due to damage.

I liked them very very much; staging, imaging and separation are very good, however I find their overall volume capacity to be a bit lacking.

I listen to every type of music and I am not sure if I will go for the 5's or the 7's now.

You can take that as a token of my apprciation for the speakers.

The only review I found comparing the 2 said that the 7's had a bit more bass but that was it.

I find this hard to believe given the drivers's size difference.

I believe the 7's would have a tangible increase in volume.

I have to add that I will get the 5's at a much better deal than the 7's.

I live in canada, the 7's are somewhat difficult to find.

Anyone has recommendations/inputs on 7's vs 5's ?

Thanks

damnusernames · April 2015

Thank you for your (very quick) answer and input. I had not considered the 3's as I was into full size towers.

Would you be nice enough to elaborate as to why you like the 705's better??

Do you believe the 703 would yield a better overall volume than both the towers?

To answer your question, no, I am not overly fond of mid bass punch but I listen to demanding music for speakers(ex. solo piano). I prefer a contained bass with "torque" over a bass that "spreads" all over...

I listen to demanding music (classical amongst others)

Piano espcially has a strong attack, a wide frequencies coverage and a "pure" sound hence make the even low distortion of mids (especially) very obvious at moderate loud to loud volume (not stupid loud).

txcoastal1 · April 2015

How large is your listening room? You will not get better dynamics just because you go to a larger speaker.

If classical is your game, IMHO, I would look at Maggie's with a single or pair a of subs

Dynamic top and bottom combination for classical music

damnusernames · April 2015

listening room is fairly large and irregular. 16 X 22 X (8.5 to 11.5). ceiling height is varying regularly (triangle shaped roof). wood floor.

Maggies don't have a very high wife approval factor... I purchased a pro piano that is fairly big (i am a pianist) and is worth a (very good) car 2 years ago. As of now, marriage-wise, I believe I have the choice in between good looking speakers or a wife...and I have to add I was very impressed with the 705 BUT for the volume capacity.

I also like/listen to very hardcore stuff. The only thing I don't listen to is new age and oriental traditional stuff.

I have a yamaha as-2000 (the hi fi division of yam). cambridge audio dac magic plus. yamaha cd-700. good enough cables.

Thanks for your advices.

Nightfall · April 2015

damnusernames wrote: »

I also like/listen to very hardcore stuff.

Like Cannibal Corpse and Deicide heavy?

damnusernames wrote: »

good enough cables.

That's one way to stay out of that conversation.

damnusernames · April 2015

Regarding cables, I believe cables do make a real difference. Nevertheless I also believe that passed a certain price point, cables are the lowest yielding sound to $ ratio in your system. You may disagree, but, respectfully, this is only disgressing from the original question
:-)

Deicide is a good reference point in terms of heavy to me. cannibal corpse, not so much.

Regarding power, the as-2000 is a very fine amp, the 705 could not take more then about 35-40 watts w/o audible distortion on cziffra's la campanella.

I honnestly don't see the point in investing in a more powerful amp if my speakers have their hands full with 40 watts.

I might be wrong though.

I believe my system is honnest, no more, no less.

When driving a mercedes, the ferrari will make you drool. But I believe as-2000 + lsim 705 would make almost anyone jealous.

:-)

Nightfall · April 2015

I'm going to have to agree with the more power. Especially if you're listening to stuff like Deicide. Forget needing power in peaks with that (our) kind of music, it needs power at a constant rate. My Yamaha does about 150 x 2 and when I listen to bands like that, it runs out of steam pretty quick. At louder volumes the dynamics disappear, midrange frequencies seem to overpower the rest of the music, and in general it sounds "stressed", if I try to turn it up.

There is no way the 705's are distorting at 35 watts, it's the amp running into clipping during peaks.

damnusernames · April 2015

to DSkip : hmmmm I admit I naively made an assumption (maybe wrong but probably not totally so) of relative volume position to official power output of amp.

In other words, I assumed that at half volume, an 90 watts amp would produce more or so 45 watts.

that is maybe wrong but it has to be somewhat close to real value.

What I am trying to say is that at 11 o'clock, I got audible distortion which should not be with that amp (used to own b&w dm602).

What setup would you suggest (reasonable cost please)??

Then again, with that setup, do you believe that the 707's are worth the extra $ over the 705'S ??

thanks

Nightfall · April 2015

Half way (or nearly) on the volume dial is too high, it's most certainly clipping.

damnusernames · April 2015

I see,

thank you both for inputs.

So essentially stick to 705's (over 707's) but change amp?

any suggestions?

Nightfall · April 2015

You can continue to use the Yamaha, it has preouts so you can just add an amp.

rpf65 · April 2015

Respectfully, to the OP. Marketing has you a little confused. You can have a big power number, but it could also have a little current number. Current is the number that is the more important.

All things being equal, a 60 amp power supply will yield better results than a 40 amp power supply, even if the 40 amp is rated at 500 watts, while the 60 ps is rated at 200 watts.

This is why it is usually recommended to have good, clean power. Didn't realize it either until I tried the same speakers on a 100 watt AVR, and 75 watt amp. Truly amazing difference.

mikeyb128 · April 2015

I have roughly the same room size, not irregular shaped, but measures 16x20 with 9 foot ceilings and lots of air leaks. a stair way to the main level, a hallway in the back of the room with a bedroom, bathroom, and laundry room. My 705's sing with my sunfire on the pushing end. I like it loud, they seem to have no problem with clean power to them

an amp with some decent current will help them open right up.

damnusernames · April 2015

does anyone of you have thoughts on the red dragon audio mono's ?

thank you mikeyb128 for your input, question for you, do you ever wish you would have gotten the 707'S instead?

damnusernames · April 2015

to rpf65

so for any given official wattage output, a higher amperage is desirable?

mikeyb128 · April 2015

I live in Canada as well. I wanted the 707's initially, but after much research it seemed that the 705's were regarded as the sweet spot in the lineup. After owning every speaker in the older lsi series, I felt I wanted something not as big as the lsi25's (they were massive) and 707's being even bigger. considering I have 2 fridge sized subs in my living room I wanted to simplify things somewhat. I suggest taking in the knowledge of these guys around here, they know their stuff!

p.s. I want to be buried with these 705's

rpf65 · April 2015

All things being equal, yes. There is also a question of how different manufacturers equipment sound with a given speaker. That will play with individual taste.

Example: I have a customer with Klipsch Cornwell speakers and Mac amps. Both we'll regarded equipment. He loves the sound, while I hate it.

Really couldn't say either of us is right or wrong, just different tastes in sound. Just another thing to consider. Lot of love for Parasound around here, as well as other manufacturers.

damnusernames · April 2015

ok,

I am grateful of your input, however, even though my knowledge of my system's limitations is clearer I don'T yet know if I should settle for the 705 or the 707.

With all things being equal, does one sound better than the other??

cfrizz · April 2015

Welcome to Club Polk.

There is nothing wrong with your 705s and if you went up to the 707s the same problem will still exist.

Your receiver does not have the capability to drive your speakers to their full potential. THAT is where the problem lies. However, the good thing is that it does have preouts so if you added a 2 channel amp of say 200wpc @ 8ohms you will hear your speakers come alive.

It is not just about volume having that much power, it is about the speakers having the power that they need so that you hear every detail of what is being played. That is the true benefit of a separate amplifier.

ukcolin99 · April 2015

Polk customer service has a responsive knowledgeable staff, you may want to ask them the same question, 705 vs 707 w/AS2000.

drumminman · April 2015

All the recommendations for getting a separate amp are on the money. Also, by running an amp that is not powerful enough for the speakers you risk damaging the latter. When you hear distortion in that type of set up it's the receiver not the speakers. It's unable to deliver a clean signal so it clips the wave forms, sending a distorted signal to the speakers.

More power is safer than not enough power, with the added benefit of reproducing more nuance in the music: more detail, bigger soundstage, cleaner lows-mids-highs, more natural sounding vocals, violins that don't sound screechy.

If you post your budget I'm sure folks here would make some good recommendations.

damnusernames · April 2015

I appreciate everyone's recommendations. Will consider seriously.

But that is an upgrade I can do anytime.

I have till 1h00 pm today to decide for either 705's or 707's.

So, back to the original question; provided I get "sufficient" amp power later, what would be the difference between the two speakers?

Thank you

D_M · April 2015

Damnusernames,

Per a previous poster's suggestion, give polk a call. They'll be able to put you on the right track based on your listening habits. Explain to them how you generally listen to music. Provide them with your general distance from the speakers, along with information on whether most of your listening is done seated or standing.

damnusernames · April 2015

thank you all

Followed advices and contacted Polk

707 have a "bit" more details in the mids, lower bass response bull also could sound bloated in a too small rooms.

will consider seriously buying monoblocks after what I have read from you guys.

I will finally bring the 705's (the damaged one) to the store and get 705's again.

I am satisfied with bass (clear and precise/contained) of the 5's, I dont' believe I am going to invest in a sub.

anyway my amp has a pre out but I don'T believe it has a sub out.

maybe I am wrong however I honnestly listen to more music than I look at my plugs and inputs :-)

dskip, with the deal i am getting, the difference between the lowest priced 707 I could find and the 705 is more like 2200 $can....

I want to thank you all for your respectfull inputs

maandjojo · April 2015

As others have said, the amp you were using was a main concern. You can do more harm to speakers with too little power over too much. At 88db sensitivity I'd look for something in the 200 to 250 watts per channel, you will then see how those 705s, can sing. As far as brands go, you want to match it to your speaker. Another words, you want an amp to bring out the best in the speakers. Again, talking to a tech from Polk should get you there.

Good luck,
Joe

Nightfall · April 2015

maandjojo wrote: »

Another words, you want an amp...

Good luck,
Joe

In other words, not another words. Sorry I had to, don't be offended.

txcoastal1 · April 2015

maandjojo wrote: »

At 88db sensitivity I'd look for something in the 200 to 250 watts per channel, you will then see how those 705s, can sing. As far as brands go, you want to match it to your speaker. Another words, you want an amp to bring out the best in the speakers.
Good luck,
Joe

Only partially agree with maandjojo...the 200-250watts not always the case vs the quality/type/design of amp and the current it delivers. Below is an example of a singled ended 12watt that many of our Polkies had the opportunity to enjoy.
Some of us also watch this 12watter eat a 35 watt amps lunch in tonality and output.

And I have the privilege to own this actual amp used at the show although it has been boxed up and used only for a couple of occasions since 2012 LSAF

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/128877/lsaf-lone-star-audio-fest-2012-may-4-6/p3

FYI---Russman was a Polk Show demo guy back then

txcoastal1 · April 2015

DSkip wrote: »

Watts does not equal sound quality. I'm growing tired of this assumption. I'm also drunk, so take what I say as just that.

Very few systems require that kind of power, but what every system requires is quality power behind it. The 12 watt experience given by Ron is one I've experienced time and time again. There is more to sound quality than just watts.

of course blowing a$$ in the elevator and killing 3 polkies and the pizza dude was classic...of course this was silent with no bass

F1nut · April 2015

My 2 cents.....dump the Yammie. Replace with a high powered, high current, high quality sound integrated amp from the likes of Musical Fidelity, BAT or Luxman to name a few.

Good move keeping the 705's, best of the bunch, IMO.

mantis · April 2015

I have no experience with your AS2000 from Yamaha. It does look like a very nice piece.
But if your getting distortion at lower then you would like volume levels then your going to need more power.
The Yamaha is rated at 90 watts per channel in a 8 ohm load. Thats a nice amount of power for high efficient speakers. The LSiM's are rated at 88db so they need more current to drive them louder cleaner.
If you paid full retail, your Yamaha was $2,000.00. So lets work around that number and see what we can come up with that has more output power.
The Cambridge Azur 851A has 120 Watts with dual mono design and is actually less retail money then your Yamaha. I have worked with this unit and it can power most speakers very loud with no audio distortion. I have driven 4 ohm load speakers off it to very high levels with ease.
The NAD C 390 DD might be retail price more then you want to spend but I feel is a good match for your speakers and has even more power at 150 watts into a 8 ohm load. This is another company I work with that I feel has amazing power beautiful clear dynamic response and allows you to drive your speakers to very high levels without giving up Dynamic range.

Dynamic range is what I believe the Yamaha is struggling to give you. It's probably running out of gas early and giving up dynamic for volume. Music is dynamic and when you don't recreate it that way it sounds flat and lifeless. This is why you need current and power to play your music at the level you would like it to be without giving up dynamic. This is also called head room. Head room means your amp can power your speakers at a very high volume , retain dynamics and still have left over power to go even further then your willing to go. Like a car that can go 160mph but you only ever go 70 mph. The engine and design has the ability to go much faster . This gives you good passing power.

So I strongly suggest seriously looking at the NAD as the next choice. Yeah it's more but look at the retail price of your speakers , why have such nice speakers only to not properly power them. I'm sure the Yamaha is a very nice sounding piece for what it can power. I'm also happy to see Yamaha getting back into 2 channel music. I also feel they should have given such a nice piece at 2 grand a bit more driving power. Seems light to me. But if you had lets say 8 ohm speakers at 92db , the Yamaha should be able to power those kinds of speakers with head room at high volumes. Your speakers just suck up the capacitor power for normal passes and when dynamic passes happen the poor Yamaha just doesn't have anything left to give you the increase in volume required to recreate said music.

I read about your cables , you said good enough, You can use whatever you like if at minimum you use at least the correct gauge for the length and amount of power your gonna send down them. I suggest 14g speaker cables of high quality up to about 25 feet in a 2 channel setup. I would probably go 12 gauge with a stronger amp so your not choking it with thinner speaker wire. Don't use non speaker wire or cheap garbage. Use at least some good to higher quality cables. I suggest looking into Audioquest for your very nice system needs.

Nightfall · April 2015

Even the $6,000 Yamaha Integrated is 100 watts.

lsim 705 vs lsim 707 differences?

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