Car Jumper Cables for Soeaker Wire

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venomclan
venomclan Posts: 2,467
edited August 2004 in 2 Channel Audio
Hi Guys,
I am not sure if anyone ever tried this, but why not use car jumper cables as speaker wire? It seems like many people that are into audio always try to improve their systems on the cheap or by DIY. Since the jumper cables are cheap enough and copper, why not? They would probably have to be twisted into a smaller guage to fit into a binding post.

Has anyone tried this? Just curious.
Jeremy
Post edited by venomclan on
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  • pjdami
    pjdami Posts: 1,894
    edited July 2004
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    I haven't tried it but have read about inductance related noise being introduced with larger cables like that. Resistance will go down but inductance related noise goes up.

    I'm all about DIY stuff if feasible. Most of my projects though I didn't try to engineer my own cable. I used cable that was designed by a manufacturer for its specific purpose. I figure they spend a lot of time and research perfecting these things so its a safe bet and one can save a few bucks making one's own terminations.

    Resistance, inductance, and capacitance are all parameters that the manufacturer's try to optimize when making cables while also achieving a good sounding cable.
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  • John K.
    John K. Posts: 822
    edited July 2004
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    Jeremy, car jumper cables have been tried as speaker cables; in fact that was one of the many cables that Fred Davis tried about 10 years ago in tests that were published in Audio magazine. The cables were about 7 gauge and the alligator clips would have made for fast attachment. The resistance with such large wire was of course very low, but another factor, which Paul mentioned, inductance, was rather high. Inductance is directly proportional to the separation distance between the centers of the two wires and no effort is made in jumper cables to keep this distance short. The higher inductance leads to a slightly greater rolloff of the very highest frequencies and for the jumper cables amounted to about an extra 0.2dB at 20KHz. This isn't audible and the sound would in practice be as good as anything else, but Fred's ending comment was: "By the way, keep the auto jumper cables in the garage!"

    If you want to experiment, fine, but up to at least a 20 foot run your regular 16ga lampcord can't be beat for use as speaker cable.
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  • venomclan
    venomclan Posts: 2,467
    edited July 2004
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    Hi Guys,
    Thanks for the posts. I kinda figured that someone along the way would try jumper cables. Hell, I would try using a garden rack if it improved my sound. I was recently reading an article in Stereophile about the Audioquest battery powered cables at $2000/pair and thought to myself, are they nuts? And what moron would buy these? Speaker cable is so subjective that it is almost impossible to to get even a remote concenses.
    I have seen some people do side by side comparing of the highest end cable there is, along side a wire hanger, and the results were negligable. I just thought, hey lets take a step back and see what really works.
    There is a great article in The Absolute Sound that talks about great results with Home Depot extension cords....
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  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited July 2004
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    Originally posted by venomclan
    There is a great article in The Absolute Sound that talks about great results with Home Depot extension cords....

    Tryrrthg & I tried the Home Depot 12 AWG outdoor extension cord speaker cable about a month ago. We tested out the cable that I built on his rig. His usuall cable is some nice Kimber Kable stuff.

    The HD outdoor extension cord SUCKED. Plain & simple. It totally killed the tweeter in his Dynaudio speakers. The music went limp. Dead. No high frequency extension.

    We played the same tracks with both sets of speaker cable. So, it was not our opinion that the HD cord sucked, it really did kill the high end.


    I have since then built another cable. (http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20151) It is a shotgun bi-wire style cable. Each conductor is 10 AWG. I also had poor results with this cable. It too killed the high end, although not as much as the HD extension cord.

    If you don't believe that speaker cable makes a difference in sound quality, then go to Home Depot, spend $20 on an outdoor extension cord, bring it home & hook it up to your system. Kiss your tweeters goodbye.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
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  • venomclan
    venomclan Posts: 2,467
    edited July 2004
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    Hi gmorris,
    Thanks for the info on the HD extension cord. I actually do beleive that wire makes a difference.

    My 2 channel system:
    Preamp: Krell Kav250p
    Amp: Krell Kav250a (250x2)
    CD: Marantz CD5400
    Mains: B&W CDM7NT

    Interconnects: Straightwire Encore II
    Straightwire Rhapsody II
    Speaker wire: Straightwire Quartet (biwire)

    I do beleive that wire and interconnects can make a huge difference on some systems. I think that the testing is a nightmare.

    Some people beleive that wire with the least amount of insulation is the best. i.e. Mapleshade
    Other wire is thick as hell with shielding. Different school of thought.

    I have also heard that when biwiring, use a smaller guage wire for the tweeters and a thicker guage for bass.
    I guess synergy is the key.
    Best Regards,
    Jeremy
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  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited July 2004
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    Hello Jeremy.

    Kick **** system you have there.

    In regard too the HD ext. cord cables, the effects they produced (or did not produce) was immediately appartent. It was not as if we were both sitting there straining to hear a small difference. The difference was huge. It was almost like the tweeter had been disconnected.

    I agree, cables do make a difference. Sometimes that difference is small, but sometimes (like our experiment with the HD ext. cord) the differences are huge.

    About the jumper cables, they are just large gauge wire. I think the cables in my trunk are 8 AWG, with a heavy rubber-like insulation. From my experience with the HD ext. cord & the other bi-wire cable I built, I'd have to vote NO on the jumper cable.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
    edited July 2004
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    The quest for better sound or how cheap can I do it?

    It's my question back to this thead.

    What I don't understand,call me nieve but why look to extention cords and jumpercables for speaker wire?I read the review that Included the HD extention cord.It didn't win the shootout.

    Whats strange is that most people look at speaker wire or better put higher end speaker wire as snake oil.Why?Is it because it costs alot of money?I think most miss the point.

    I'll bring it back once again.....

    My Quote "a system is only as good as it's weakest link,wire is included as part of the system"

    If it is a 2 channel,home theater or a multiroom system,this will hold true.

    Basically learning everything about wire and understanding it's purpose in ones system or systems,you will better be preppared to select the correct wire for that given system.My as usual best advice to find the level of wire thats correct for the level of expected performance that ones system can support.High quality amps,speakers and sources need high quality wire.Your goal is to reproduce audio and video the best you can.

    High end wire isn't going to make a lower end system sound better,what you need to do is match there abilities together.Allowing the speakers to get the full signal that it's able to reproduce is and should be the goal.You spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on speakers,amps,sources and software,why would you want to hinder there ability to entertain you?

    Remember what I speak isn't fact or the industry standard.It's my experience.

    last thought is this,my system will always be wired correctly.The level of my system matches the level of wires of all kinds.I feel no need to upgrade any of my cables unless I upgrade other parts of my system.Then I will determine which route I will go.With alot of research and demoing,this can be found.

    I don't knock trying out jumper cables and extention cords,I wonder how people get to this as I never had this desire.At one point I had a guy speak very highly of romex wire for speaker wire.I was wiring a projector and drop down screen.There was left over 12-2 romex after the electrican was done.So for the sheer hell of it,we wired the mains which where Vienna Beethoven.The amp was a B&K ref7270.We let it play while wwe went to lunch.When we returned,we sat and listened to the system vs the M1.2s monster speaker wire provided on the job.The difference was huge.The romex made the speakers sound cheap and lifeless.The monster gave them body and air.Vs battle I wasn't shocked but I expected alot more out of the romex due to the stellar review one gave it.I wouldn't wire any speakers with romex.......

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,802
    edited July 2004
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    While Dan and I don't always see eye to eye, he has nailed this one on the head. Way to go!!!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited July 2004
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    I'll preface by saying that I do believe that wire makes a difference.

    However, a few things that I also believe:

    1. Not every link in the chain is equal.

    2. Improvement does not always equate to more expensive.

    3. As long as it's not inherently dangerous, why not try what might be absurd?

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited July 2004
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    I tried the HD extension cord as speaker cable because home audio is a hobby of mine. I like to play with stuff like cables as much as I like to just sit down and listen to a CD. I also like to build stuff, such as my subwoofer & equipment rack.

    The HD ext. cord project was very cheap. I think I paid $16 for a 25', 12 AWG cord. I then dropped another couple bucks on banana & spade connectors and some heat shrink tubing. Took about an hour to put it all together. Good times. One part of this hobby I enjoy is experimenting. One aspect of the experimenting process that I particularly enjoy is building stuff myself.

    Outright system performance is not my ultimate goal. I enjoy home audio as a hobby, as well as listening to music.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
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  • bknauss
    bknauss Posts: 1,441
    edited July 2004
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    One big problem I would foresee using jumper cables: they don't flex for ****!
    Brian Knauss
    ex-Electrical Engineer for Polk
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,802
    edited July 2004
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    Neither do my MIT speaker cables........NBFD.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited August 2004
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    Originally posted by TroyD
    3. As long as it's not inherently dangerous, why not try what might be absurd?

    BDT

    Great!! I think I should somehow adopt that....
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited August 2004
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    If you're gonna buy anything from Home Depot, buy the 12awg speaker cable, NOT the extension cord. The speaker cables are even cheaper.
    Never Forget
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  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited August 2004
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    Originally posted by PolkThug
    If you're gonna buy anything from Home Depot, buy the 12awg speaker cable, NOT the extension cord. The speaker cables are even cheaper.

    Very true, and I'll bet they even sound better. But that is kind of missing the point.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
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