Metal domes and headaches

geppy1
geppy1 Posts: 3,076
edited March 2014 in Speakers
I am just throwing this out there. I have a pair of very well respected florstanders that use metal dome tweeters. I have owned this model 3 differnt times and they are a very good speaker and deserve the press they have received. I listen at anywhere from low to rock out levels. There is no obvious harshness , distortion or even brightness but I swear I get headaches from them. I have charted this out but it sure seems like it. Has anyone else felt this?? I did a search for it and it seems like it is an issue for folks.
Thanks
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited March 2014
    I have this same problem with metal tweeters. I can't listen to a pair of B&W speakers for more than an hour before my head starts pounding. They are very bright which is what causes the headaches. I avoid metal tweeters like the plague!
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 26,973
    edited March 2014
    I have had that from horn tweeters but can't say i noticed it from metal dome tweeters. I do know others that have an adversity to metal domes like Cfrizz and avoid them at all cost
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  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited March 2014
    Most horn tweeters give me a headache after more than an hour of listening. I have a pair of Paradigm Reference 20v3 monitors with metal dome tweeters and I almost returned them because of the brightness. After a little over 400 hours of use the metal dome tweeters settled right down. My experience is metal dome tweeters need to be carefully paired with the source gear, and given 400 to 600 hours of use, prior to making any judgments.
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited March 2014
    Cheap metal domes should be avoided, although the more expensive units can sound very nice...especially Be units.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    edited March 2014
    I've never listened to any metal domes long enough for that level of fatigue, but I do know the only metal domes my ears like are beryllium, specifically from Focal, RBH and Wilson. Haven't heard the diamond teeters from B&W yet.
    Up
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 26,973
    edited March 2014
    Face wrote: »
    Cheap metal domes should be avoided, although the more expensive units can sound very nice...especially Be units.

    I concur with the Focal Be, but I'm still not sure Beryllium is safe for those after reading the disclaimer. very little of that stuff is way bad
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited March 2014
    Focal domes do not exhibit the nasties above, for the most part. Even their lower end Mag/AL. alloy inverted domes are pretty nice.

    I also found the metal domes on my Energy RC-10s quite acceptable and not harsh at all. In fact they embarrass the silk domes in the Rti-A series, which are MUCH brighter, IMO.

    B&W, not so much. Don't like those.

    JBL titanium 035tis, OK on tubes. And that's another problem: amplification!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • Timothy Smith
    Timothy Smith Posts: 764
    edited March 2014
    Thanks for bring this up

    I have the same problem, and I don't just think that I think it "sounds" metallic just because in the back of my mind I know the tweeter is metal or metallized.

    Every speaker that I have owned with metal dome speakers (many) eventually went out the door. Fatiguing to my ears and eventually gives me a headache.

    When I listen to familiar music that I like on them I get an involuntary urge to turn down the volume, which is not normally the case, and my ears almost close up.
    Norh ACA-2B tube pre, Sumo Andromeda SS amp. Magneplanar MMG speakers, M&K MX1250 Subwoofer, Pro-Ject RM1.3 Genie TT with Sumiko Pearl MM cart., Keces DAC, Cambridge Audio Azur 640c CD player
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  • nhhiep
    nhhiep Posts: 877
    edited March 2014
    No. It's not the material. It's how they designed it. Polk rti are soft and it's bright as hell
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited March 2014
    Dayton Audio Reference aluminum dome tweeters sound surprisingly soft.
    Jake
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  • geppy1
    geppy1 Posts: 3,076
    edited March 2014
    Never felt brightness or harshness from these but there is a slight hardness and I mean slight
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,452
    edited March 2014
    Interesting thread. I'm getting ready to try some HSU HB-1's with horns. Almost didn't due to my reading re: horns being uncomfortably bright. I hate bright speakers, too. Haven't had headaches yet, but it's not a pleasant experience.

    Jake, can you speak more to the Daytons? Have you built speakers using those drivers and kits? Always been curious. Not to threadjack, so perhaps in a pm if not relevant to this post.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    edited March 2014
    I'm interested to hear what you think about those HSU's, i've read good things and personally have owned many pairs of Klipsch speakers. They can be picky with gear but with good synergy horns can be great!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited March 2014
    Just like any other kind of driver, horns can sound great or awful. Besides the design of the horn itself, the crossover can make or break any driver.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Timothy Smith
    Timothy Smith Posts: 764
    edited March 2014
    geppy1 wrote: »
    I am just throwing this out there. I have a pair of very well respected florstanders that use metal dome tweeters. I have owned this model 3 differnt times and they are a very good speaker and deserve the press they have received. I listen at anywhere from low to rock out levels. There is no obvious harshness , distortion or even brightness but I swear I get headaches from them. I have charted this out but it sure seems like it. Has anyone else felt this?? I did a search for it and it seems like it is an issue for folks.
    Thanks

    Any chance you are talking about Vandersteens?
    Norh ACA-2B tube pre, Sumo Andromeda SS amp. Magneplanar MMG speakers, M&K MX1250 Subwoofer, Pro-Ject RM1.3 Genie TT with Sumiko Pearl MM cart., Keces DAC, Cambridge Audio Azur 640c CD player
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,728
    edited March 2014
    Honestly after living with the Maggies for almost a year now I find most metal tweeters to be too bright for my taste. I had the headache issues as well before but never thought they sounded all that bright, now they're just too much for me.
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  • Timothy Smith
    Timothy Smith Posts: 764
    edited March 2014
    AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »
    Honestly after living with the Maggies for almost a year now I find most metal tweeters to be too bright for my taste. I had the headache issues as well before but never thought they sounded all that bright, now they're just too much for me.

    I am back to Maggies too for most of my listening.

    Now that I think of it, the conventional speakers that I still listen too all have fabric/silk dome tweeters like Dahlquist DQ-10's (I took out that horrible plastic Phillips supertweeter), DQ-20's, A/D/S L-810's, and Meadowlark Kestrel Hot Rods, and Quad 11's..
    Norh ACA-2B tube pre, Sumo Andromeda SS amp. Magneplanar MMG speakers, M&K MX1250 Subwoofer, Pro-Ject RM1.3 Genie TT with Sumiko Pearl MM cart., Keces DAC, Cambridge Audio Azur 640c CD player
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  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,604
    edited March 2014
    I have had two different sets of Eosone RFS 400 and 600 and they both had a set of titanium tweeters. Never found them to cause a headache or sound too bright. Very nice sounding speakers that I could listen to all day. Only sold to keep all my other Polks.
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited March 2014
    I like metal domes and have used several decent performing,reasonably priced ones in my DIY builds,for example.
    http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=90&Itemid=114
    http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-ne25vta-04-1-aluminum-dome-tweeter--264-1038
    http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=187&Itemid=183
    I have also heard some nasty examples ,many the fault of the designers choices in voicing the system than an inherent flaw in the tweeter itself.
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  • MAD
    MAD Posts: 105
    edited March 2014
    I find the harshness of metal domes are amp dependent, as others have already stated. I have found that certain pairings led to a very bright top end that hurts if you listen for more than 20 minutes. Maybe more of an ear sting.
    I too have a pair of paradigm studio 60 V4 which I initially hated with vintage amps, after a long long break in, they are wonderful and the brightness has toned right down.


    One of my difficulties in selling gear is that I always fear that I might sell an amp that will be the "perfect match" for a future pair of speakers... I need to get over that.

    Very interesting post, I have never felt headaches but definitely the ear fatigue.
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