first Phono preamp build

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scottyboy76
scottyboy76 Posts: 2,905
edited December 2012 in Electronics
i was given the two main circuit boards to build a phono pre on a breadboard type setup.

I have never done anything like this, in fact, thinkin about takin it down to a retired tv repairman who lives down the road to have the actual soldering done.

My question?, can i go onto website x and just order a generic input and output board, as well as the power end.

I guess im wondering if there are values and voltages that i would have to take into account.

Also, any recommendations on a site to buy the necessary parts, and hpefully get some advice.

Will incude pics, and if there is any info insribed on the parts, thanks in advance
humpty dumpty was pushed
Post edited by scottyboy76 on
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  • TNHNDYMAN
    TNHNDYMAN Posts: 2,145
    edited December 2012
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    Wish I could help buddy, but it seems you will need more info for others to chime in. Several members have the skill set and ability to help walk you thru it I'm sure.
    2-ch System: Parasound P/LD 2000 pre, Parasound HCA-1000 amp, Parasound T/DQ Tuner, Phase Technology PC-100 Tower speakers, Technics SL-1600 Turntable, Denon 2910 SACD/CD player, Peachtree DAC iT and X1asynchorus USB converter, HSU VTF-3 subwoofer.

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 35,516
    edited December 2012
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    You don't need any input and output board(s) - the three "in" terminals should take your phonograph output (left, ground, and right channels, if I had to guess - it should be easy to identify the common ground from the PC trace); you'll get line level outputs from the three "out" terminals. The input voltages are marked on the board (+ 15VDC and -15VDC; again the third pin is ground); it looks like you have the P/S and regulator board, you probably need a step-down transformer to drive it. Do you have docs and or schematics for the board?

    The spacing of those pins is probably designed to match some standard multi-pin connectors (I don't know what they're called, but they're green plastic housings with screw down connectors for the wires)...

    EDIT - these kinds of things (again, I think...):
    http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/TER-202/2-POSITION-PCB-TERMINAL-BLOCK/1.html
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  • scottyboy76
    scottyboy76 Posts: 2,905
    edited December 2012
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    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    You don't need any input and output board(s) - the three "in" terminals should take your phonograph output (left, ground, and right channels, if I had to guess - it should be easy to identify the common ground from the PC trace); you'll get line level outputs from the three "out" terminals. The input voltages are marked on the board (+ 15VDC and -15VDC; again the third pin is ground); it looks like you have the P/S and regulator board, you probably need a step-down transformer to drive it. Do you have docs and or schematics for the board?

    The spacing of those pins is probably designed to match some standard multi-pin connectors (I don't know what they're called, but they're green plastic housings with screw down connectors for the wires)...

    EDIT - these kinds of things (again, I think...):
    http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/TER-202/2-POSITION-PCB-TERMINAL-BLOCK/1.html

    Yeah just as i thought, i dont know what the hell im doing with this.

    I appreciate the advice, im thinkin it would be best to either look for a good used phono pre (my rega mini is doing some weird things, and unfortunately, occasionally loud things) or take these components to a shop in atlanta.
    humpty dumpty was pushed
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 35,516
    edited December 2012
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    actually :-) what I'd recommend is to buy a somewhat better documented board-level "kit" or buy a full kit and have the fun (and pride!) of building your own and a high probability of a successful outcome.

    The best (as far as I am concerned) value in terms of performance per dollar in a board-level "kit" is Jim Hagerman's "Bugle" - it is excellent, not terribly expensive (not cheap, though - one gets what one pays for!) and defaults to battery power (no power supply to add noise, hum, or complexity!). http://www.hagtech.com/bugle.html An AC power supply kit (again, board level, I think( is also available - but there is a lot to be said for using batteries to power a high-gain phono preamp!

    In terms of the full kit, the value leader as far as I am concerned (and I am more than a little biased) is Dan "Doc Bottlehead" Schmalle's "Seduction" vacuum tube (6922) phono preamp. http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php?crn=225&rn=429&action=show_detail It is not quite the bargain it was when first introduced, but it is a simple and good sounding phono preamp that is pretty easy to build and is hard (perhaps impossible) to beat for the $ unless one scratch builds a phono preamp (and one has a well-stocked junk box to supply odds and ends for the project at very low - or no - cost!).

    Disclaimer - I own a Bugle (with Hagerman's "Piccolo" MC head-amp and Hagerman's power supply) and a very early Seduction (although neither is my "daily driver" phono preamp).
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  • scottyboy76
    scottyboy76 Posts: 2,905
    edited December 2012
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    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    actually :-) what I'd recommend is to buy a somewhat better documented board-level "kit" or buy a full kit and have the fun (and pride!) of building your own and a high probability of a successful outcome.

    The best (as far as I am concerned) value in terms of performance per dollar in a board-level "kit" is Jim Hagerman's "Bugle" - it is excellent, not terribly expensive (not cheap, though - one gets what one pays for!) and defaults to battery power (no power supply to add noise, hum, or complexity!). http://www.hagtech.com/bugle.html An AC power supply kit (again, board level, I think( is also available - but there is a lot to be said for using batteries to power a high-gain phono preamp!

    In terms of the full kit, the value leader as far as I am concerned (and I am more than a little biased) is Dan "Doc Bottlehead" Schmalle's "Seduction" vacuum tube (6922) phono preamp. http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php?crn=225&rn=429&action=show_detail It is not quite the bargain it was when first introduced, but it is a simple and good sounding phono preamp that is pretty easy to build and is hard (perhaps impossible) to beat for the $ unless one scratch builds a phono preamp (and one has a well-stocked junk box to supply odds and ends for the project at very low - or no - cost!).

    Disclaimer - I own a Bugle (with Hagerman's "Piccolo" MC head-amp and Hagerman's power supply) and a very early Seduction (although neither is my "daily driver" phono preamp).

    Thank you for the info and help, i really do appreciate it, however, im really not in a place in my life to try to do something like a kit project.

    I checked the bugle out, but it would not allow me to choose the assy option, i assume that is the assembled kit.

    Im going to email them tomorrow, and see if this is an affordable option, after spending what we did on the rega tt, and enjoying my old albums, its been kinda tough doing without the tunes we love so much and give us such a break from today, If its feasible, I think i will go with the bugle, thanks again for the help.
    humpty dumpty was pushed
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 35,516
    edited December 2012
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    The single best cheap option for a decent MM (moving magnet) phono preamp/EQ is to use the one built into a 1970s vintage integrated amp, receiver, or preamp :-) Use its tape out jacks to get the phono preamp's signal to a line level input on your own amp, receiver, or preamp. Phono was the primary high quality source in those days; even the cheaper/entry-level components had very decent phono preamps.

    Price? Well... in my neck of the woods, these old pieces turn up gratis more than occasionally. Keep your eyes peeled - chance favors the prepared mind! :-)

    EDIT: e.g., something like this little guy; sourced from my favorite local vintage audio emporium (needless to say) - nice FM tuner section in these, too...

    SherwoodS7100A.jpg
    SherwoodS7100Arear.jpg
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  • TNHNDYMAN
    TNHNDYMAN Posts: 2,145
    edited December 2012
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    Scotty- Send me the DIY kit and I'll try to figure it out. In the meantime I'll dig thru the closet and find an older (prob not pretty but works) receiver w/ phono section and mail it to you. Just PM your address again. It's here somewhere but it'd be quicker for you to resend.

    On another note- Conradicles and I worked out details for transfer of the demo 703's and you should be next in line after him. He gets a nice shipping discount so you should be able to work something out w/ him to have them shipped to you and then work with Jon S. to get to whoever is deemed to be next on the list. The point of all this is that you need to be spinning some vinyl thru those puppies when you get them.
    2-ch System: Parasound P/LD 2000 pre, Parasound HCA-1000 amp, Parasound T/DQ Tuner, Phase Technology PC-100 Tower speakers, Technics SL-1600 Turntable, Denon 2910 SACD/CD player, Peachtree DAC iT and X1asynchorus USB converter, HSU VTF-3 subwoofer.

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 35,516
    edited December 2012
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    ^ perfect! :-) ^

    A very nice thing to do.
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  • scottyboy76
    scottyboy76 Posts: 2,905
    edited December 2012
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    Thanks guys, its app.

    Travis, i will be glad to send that to ya, if you get it goin, you might just keep it, if you want it.

    And i would never have thought the phono section of older receivers would beat modern gear.
    humpty dumpty was pushed
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 35,516
    edited December 2012
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    ... and just why is that? ;-)

    I'll skip the polemics :-) and just say that dollar for dollar the better old stuff will probably deliver pretty surprising performance compared to the new stuff.

    The best new stuff is very, very good - but as always one gets what one pays for.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,749
    edited December 2012
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    scottyboy76 wrote: »
    Thanks guys, its app.

    Travis, i will be glad to send that to ya, if you get it goin, you might just keep it, if you want it.

    And i would never have thought the phono section of older receivers would beat modern gear.

    I was pretty impressed with using mhardy's suggestion for my TT with my setup. Worked like a charm and was quite nice.....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 9,272
    edited December 2012
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    basement_retro.jpg

    Back in the day they did care about the phono stage they installed. Maybe cause we didn't have CD players.:question: My retro system with Polk 7A's and Yamaha CA-800 has a great phono stage. It even works with vertical turntables.:cheesygrin:

    A MM/MC phono board from a '90's Krell KSL pre amp.

    krell_ksa_phono.jpg

    Neither beat my few year old ModWright SWP phono stage though.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 35,516
    edited December 2012
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    The CA-800 is a fine, fine amplifier... just sayin'... ;-)

    P1030167.jpg

    The 1970s Yamahas had quite good phono sections for massmarket hardware; I've never had any complaints about the CA-610II I bought with my meagre savings back in 1978.
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  • scottyboy76
    scottyboy76 Posts: 2,905
    edited December 2012
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    Not doubting your advice, i guess i just assumed that modern materials, engineering and such would improve on the old tech.
    humpty dumpty was pushed
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