Speaker wire vibration control
drumminman
Posts: 3,396
So, I was playing some music the other night and reached down to check the connecton to the binding posts. I'm biwiring with spade connectors on the highs and bananas on the lows.
The bananas connected to the speaker end were vibrating to the music when I touched them, as was the back of the speaker cabinet. I decided to try a little vibration control: I wrapped the body of each banana with 5-6 turns of teflon gas pipe tape (the yellow, thicker stuff), then wrapped over that with some 3M micropore tape used in medical settings (around 7-8 turns). Next I took two pieces of polyethylene pipe insulation foam and wedged it between the bananas. I did the speaker end on both sets of bananas as well as the amp end.
Turned the amp back on and started playing tunes. The improvement was immediately obvious, even to my wife who's fairly immune to my audio hobby
The soundstage expanded horizontally another foot or two on each side. Better resolution of complex passages in which alot of instruments are playing at once, or there are multiple background singers. Instruments sound more full with slightly better attack and decay; bass sounds more defined and full, overall the speakers seem to disappear a little more with sounds more in the room rather than emanating from two boxes 9 feet apart.
None of the qualities above were missing before instituting this tweak, it merely enhanced them. When I realized things were sounding better I was curious if I had completely eliminated the vibrations in the connectors, so I went back to touch them during a loud passage. They were still there but maybe 1/2 as much.
I plan to play around with this to see if I can further reduce them, but I highly recommend this simple and cheap tweak! The effect is maybe the same or a little more pronounced than installing spikes.
The bananas connected to the speaker end were vibrating to the music when I touched them, as was the back of the speaker cabinet. I decided to try a little vibration control: I wrapped the body of each banana with 5-6 turns of teflon gas pipe tape (the yellow, thicker stuff), then wrapped over that with some 3M micropore tape used in medical settings (around 7-8 turns). Next I took two pieces of polyethylene pipe insulation foam and wedged it between the bananas. I did the speaker end on both sets of bananas as well as the amp end.
Turned the amp back on and started playing tunes. The improvement was immediately obvious, even to my wife who's fairly immune to my audio hobby
The soundstage expanded horizontally another foot or two on each side. Better resolution of complex passages in which alot of instruments are playing at once, or there are multiple background singers. Instruments sound more full with slightly better attack and decay; bass sounds more defined and full, overall the speakers seem to disappear a little more with sounds more in the room rather than emanating from two boxes 9 feet apart.
None of the qualities above were missing before instituting this tweak, it merely enhanced them. When I realized things were sounding better I was curious if I had completely eliminated the vibrations in the connectors, so I went back to touch them during a loud passage. They were still there but maybe 1/2 as much.
I plan to play around with this to see if I can further reduce them, but I highly recommend this simple and cheap tweak! The effect is maybe the same or a little more pronounced than installing spikes.
"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
Post edited by drumminman on
Comments
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So, after reading this I went an touched my speaker wires (Shunyata Anaconda with pig tails at each end), and did notice a small vibration. Then again the SPL is only in the high 60s, low 70s now. I am a big fan of vibration control with the speakers on spikes, and then on top of a 4" maple platform with brass carpet spikes. Also, all gear is on Mapleshade brass micro-point footers. As each piece of gear had vibration reduced there was a very apparent improvement.
Thanks for the tip. I will figure out some way to reduce the vibration in the pigtails. It can't hurt, but I am not paying $200 for Acoustically Tuned Speaker Cable Pig Tail Vibration Eliminators. At least not today.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
So, after reading this I went an touched my speaker wires (Shunyata Anaconda with pig tails at each end), and did notice a small vibration. Then again the SPL is only in the high 60s, low 70s now. I am a big fan of vibration control with the speakers on spikes, and then on top of a 4" maple platform with brass carpet spikes. Also, all gear is on Mapleshade brass micro-point footers. As each piece of gear had vibration reduced there was a very apparent improvement.
Thanks for the tip. I will figure out some way to reduce the vibration in the pigtails. It can't hurt, but I am not paying $200 for Acoustically Tuned Speaker Cable Pig Tail Vibration Eliminators. At least not today.
Me neither! This was so simple (and cheap) and the effect is easily noticed.
I have my 2.3TL's spiked, and I damped the Xovers when I rebuilt them, but they're still inside the cabinet. Sealed cabinets like the SDA's build up internal pressure to control the MW's and drive the PR's. That's where the vibration is coming from. I'll probably do a little more dampingon the banana plugs.
I think moving the Xovers outside the speakers would be a good move, but that will be a future project."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Just courious if direct wire connection to speakers instead of pins or banana's would eliminate the same vibs?Main Rig:
Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
MIT exp 1 ic's
Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
AQ kingcobra ic's
OPPO 83 CDP
Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
ADS L1590/2 Biamped
MIT exps2 speaker cable -
soundfreak1 wrote: »Just courious if direct wire connection to speakers instead of pins or banana's would eliminate the same vibs?
I have the speaker wire for the highs connected with spades and tightened securely - there's not nearly as much vibration to the touch. Perceptible, but only just. Bananas are so convenient, but I suppose I should switch the connectors on the wire for lows to spades as well.
This may be one reason spades are generally considered to be superior to bananas.
I'd say put some music on and touch the binding post and the wire at that point. You'll know whether or not it's there."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Could be caused by standing waves from the speaker itself.Main Rig:
Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
MIT exp 1 ic's
Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
AQ kingcobra ic's
OPPO 83 CDP
Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
ADS L1590/2 Biamped
MIT exps2 speaker cable -
soundfreak1 wrote: »Could be caused by standing waves from the speaker itself.
Something like that. My guess is that because it's a sealed cabinet there's no release of pressure from the driver cone excursion except from leaks in the cabinet, or through the MW dust caps. The pressure is what energizes the PR for the low bass.
I can feel vibration on the back wall and a little on the side walls as well. This may have been designed into the speakers so I'm reluctant to do anything in the way of damping that can't be easily reversed."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Does it varry with the music or is it constant?Main Rig:
Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
MIT exp 1 ic's
Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
AQ kingcobra ic's
OPPO 83 CDP
Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
ADS L1590/2 Biamped
MIT exps2 speaker cable -
Louder = more vibrations, softer = less. It's not constant but follows the intensity/complexity/loudness/amount of bass present."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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What about the vibration to the wires on the inside of the cabinet? You think the vibration was heavy at the bananas stick your head in the cabinet.
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Are your drivers dinamated? I had a " ringing" or a resonence at 30 hrz on my rta's that I eliminated by dinamating.Main Rig:
Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
MIT exp 1 ic's
Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
AQ kingcobra ic's
OPPO 83 CDP
Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
ADS L1590/2 Biamped
MIT exps2 speaker cable -
What about the vibration to the wires on the inside of the cabinet? You think the vibration was heavy at the bananas stick your head in the cabinet.
Good point! When I rebuilt my Xovers I damped the caps, but not the wires going to the MW's. Next time I open them up again I'll probably use some blue tack or rope caulk at intervals on the wires. I'll probably also damp the big Solen Inductors, even though they're supposed to be fairly immune to vibrations due to how they're wound.
I ordered some damping sheets from Sonicraft for the back walls. As I recall TF66 you found that using only a couple of narrow strips (3-4" wide?) yielded the best results, rather than coveringthe entire back wall. Am I remembering that correctly?"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
drumminman wrote: »Good point! When I rebuilt my Xovers I damped the caps, but not the wires going to the MW's. Next time I open them up again I'll probably use some blue tack or rope caulk at intervals on the wires. I'll probably also damp the big Solen Inductors, even though they're supposed to be fairly immune to vibrations due to how they're wound.
I ordered some damping sheets from Sonicraft for the back walls. As I recall TF66 you found that using only a couple of narrow strips (3-4" wide?) yielded the best results, rather than coveringthe entire back wall. Am I remembering that correctly?
Yes too much is overkill.. -
Another item on the never ending list of things people worry about. Does anyone just listen to music anymore? :cheesygrin:If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
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Yes I have been enjoying music for sometime now, my speakers haven't been molested in the last few months.
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Unless you have your speaker wire coiled up next to a strong magnet, I can't imagine
vibration of the cable having much effect on anything.cristo
NAD C 545BEE cd player, Philips AF877 turntable / Shure V15V-MR with JICO SAS stylus,
Tascam 122 mkIII cassette deck, Harman Kardon 3480 receiver, Terk FM-50 antenna in the attic,
Soundcraftsmen SE550 stereo equalizer, Polk Monitor 10a speakers
(with Sonicraft/Solen/Mills crossover rebuild) -
Unless you have your speaker wire coiled up next to a strong magnet, I can't imagine
vibration of the cable having much effect on anything.
"You can't imagine it", but have you sat down and listened to the differences?
Greg
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Well, I've had them loose, and I've had them pinned down, and on listening, I couldn't tell any difference.
FWIW, I haven't listened with and without a platinum pinky ring on my right hand, but I can
imagine with considerable confidence that there wouldn't be an audible difference, and I don't
need to go out and buy one to to be sure of that.cristo
NAD C 545BEE cd player, Philips AF877 turntable / Shure V15V-MR with JICO SAS stylus,
Tascam 122 mkIII cassette deck, Harman Kardon 3480 receiver, Terk FM-50 antenna in the attic,
Soundcraftsmen SE550 stereo equalizer, Polk Monitor 10a speakers
(with Sonicraft/Solen/Mills crossover rebuild) -
Nice write up. I use the wire bare on my speakers and tighten down. I think it's the best connection as there is no relying on crimping. That's a good point though about the wire and crossovers in the speaker. Has anyone tried moving the crossovers and inductor to outside the speaker?
It's not exactly frankenpolk, but I'm sure besides aesthetics there must be a reason. Most of us don't have to move the speakers too often, so if it does have a positive affect moving the crossovers to a mount outside would be feasable.
Hmmm...I love these cheap tweaks, it has a very high WAF!Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe -
I built new Xovers and moved them outside the cabs for a pair of Def Techs I own, but I haven't done it with my 2.3TL's (yet. . .) Vibration plays a part in quality/clarity of sound so I think it would probably help to move all those caps and small inductors out of a sealed cabinet.
Getting ready to switch my bananas to spades, install some Black Hole and do a few other mods tomorrow.:cool:"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Don't forget to read tool fans writeup about blackholePolk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe
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Don't forget to read tool fans writeup about blackhole
Thanks EV, I did. This appears to be a case where too much ain't just about right - it's too much :cheesygrin:
Planning on using a 3" strip vertically behind both banks of MW's and a little behind the tweeters."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Well, I've had them loose, and I've had them pinned down, and on listening, I couldn't tell any difference.
FWIW, I haven't listened with and without a platinum pinky ring on my right hand, but I can
imagine with considerable confidence that there wouldn't be an audible difference, and I don't
need to go out and buy one to to be sure of that.
Don't try to be logical. There are people here that can "hear" the difference when they put their speaker wire on isolators that keep the wire off the floor. They also can hear the difference between a 16 gauge power cord and a 14 gauge power cord. -
I refuse to abandon logic just to fit in with others.
That's what we have politicians for.cristo
NAD C 545BEE cd player, Philips AF877 turntable / Shure V15V-MR with JICO SAS stylus,
Tascam 122 mkIII cassette deck, Harman Kardon 3480 receiver, Terk FM-50 antenna in the attic,
Soundcraftsmen SE550 stereo equalizer, Polk Monitor 10a speakers
(with Sonicraft/Solen/Mills crossover rebuild) -
I haven't tried the power cord upgrade, but I did add a Belkin p30 conditioner. It came with an ebay deal or I would not have had it. I heard the difference and then was curious as to why, then looked on here and saw there is a good bit about power conditioners helping with sound. I wasn't expecting a difference in sound, I just thought it was a better surge protector. But there is certainly a noticeable improvement in sound, although not as big as spiking speakers. For me changing a power cord now makes sense, as well as upgrading the outlet.Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe
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Don't try to be logical. There are people here that can "hear" the difference when they put their speaker wire on isolators that keep the wire off the floor. They also can hear the difference between a 16 gauge power cord and a 14 gauge power cord.
And what... you can't?
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I use porcelain cable elevators---that don't improve anything, but they look cool as hell and make me feel like I have an expensive system. :cheesygrin:Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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I use porcelain cable elevators---that don't improve anything, but they look cool as hell and make me feel like I have an expensive system. :cheesygrin:
Nothing wrong with keeping things neat and looking good!
