jumpers

Willow
Willow Posts: 10,862
edited April 2004 in Speakers
I wanted to know what you peeps thought of the quality of the polk jumpers... the reason I ask is that I have my speakers bi-wired with 14g. I though of putting the jumpers back on and get 12 or 10g cable. Not sure if its worth the change or keep'em bi-wired with monster xp 14g.

Any info, advice ??

Thanks
Post edited by Willow on
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Comments

  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited April 2004
    Since you've already done the work of bi-wiring, I would just leave em that way.

    Or, if you want less wiring laying around, use a single 12awg run with the same 12awg for the jumper.

    Regards,
    PolkThug
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,862
    edited April 2004
    So I would strip the tips as usual and just cut enough to run from bottom to top ?? is that how ? doing this is better than the jumpers that come with the speakers??

    it's ok if the wires touch in binding post, the one from the receiver to the post can touch the jumper cable ??

    Thanks
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    edited April 2004
    I'l post a pic tonite of some jumpers I made with Radio Shack screw-down banana's and 10awg Moster cable. Easy project that cost about $12 to do...
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,862
    edited April 2004
    thanks that would help !!!
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,704
    edited April 2004
    IMO, keep the bi-wires you have AND add the jumpers. In that way you're effectively running 7 gauge wire. Yes, you run the jumpers from the top to the bottom posts and yes they can touch the speaker wire.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited April 2004
    Originally posted by F1nut
    IMO, keep the bi-wires you have AND add the jumpers. In that way you're effectively running 7 gauge wire. Yes, you run the jumpers from the top to the bottom posts and yes they can touch the speaker wire.

    I don't like that idea. The reason to bi-wire is to stop the voltage drops from the bass and the treble from effecting each other. If you connect it together at the speaker then yes, you have a larger cable which will lessen the voltage drop but the drop that is still present will allow the bass and treble drops to effect each other.
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    edited April 2004
    If you leave the jumpers in place, you will not be bi-wiring. This would give you all of the expense of bi-wiring, with none of the benefits...
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,573
    edited April 2004
    Yea, running 7 gauge wire for 3 inches. Sounds like zero benefit IMO.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited April 2004
    Deep six the jumpers. Russ told me they attenuate the highs, and he is dead on (as usual).

    I replaced my jumpers on the fx1000's with banana plugs and 12 gauge and it was a definite improvement. I had a thread topic on this a while back with a pic, if you want to save Steve some time, so a search and check it out.

    You don't even need a plugs - just use wire if you want. I'm sure 14 gauge would work fine over such a tiny run. Maybe you could tin the ends with some high grade solder to prevent oxidation of the exposed copper?
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,862
    edited April 2004
    I know I won't be using the factory jumpers and bi-wired, maybe If I want to upgrade the wire should I have thicker for bass and use my 14 for the tweets ??

    looks like I will be leaving the jumpers off if I do make my own Ill use wire... ok trying to digest everything...I should keep bi-wire maybe upgard the AWG to 12 (at least for the bass) or leave it the way it is bi-wired with 14awg, cable length should all be the same or is this garbage?? one of my runs is shorter on the right than on the left.....
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    edited April 2004
    You need:

    1. 12awg or 10awg wire, 2 feet
    2. 8 radio shack banana's (12awg) with screw-lock
    3. Shrink tube, red/black (lets be professional here!)

    - Cut 4 pieces of wire into 5" lengths
    - Strip 3/4" of insulation off both ends
    - Slide 1 1/2" piece of shrink tube (correct color) on each end
    - Attach RS banana's, ensure good tight fit
    - Slide heatshrink to cover 1/2" of banana, heat until fit

    Now you've got some professional looking jumpers you can use over and over again. The heat shrink just adds a touch of class. Run your main speaker wire to the top (mid/high) terminals and "jumper" down to the bottom (woofer) terminals for best results. This keeps your delicate mid/highs from having to "traverse" that nasty, **** stranded 12awg wire....LOL!

    Willow: my man, brother.....ditch that nasty 14 awg and get you a 60% discounted set of Audioquest Granites from AudioAdvisor...I promise if you do, you will be sending me a Christmas card this year!
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    edited April 2004
    $239.00, 10ft pair terminated however you like (Retail $549.00)
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,573
    edited April 2004
    Yea, AA is having some real nice deals on AQ products.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited April 2004
    Home Depot 12AWG $0.36 a foot. (no affil)
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    edited April 2004
    Walmart, lamp cord, 16awg .11 cents a foot!
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited April 2004
    coat hangers. straighten them out. free. coats all lay on the floor. speaking in sentence fragments. to much free time.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited April 2004
    I would use the same lengths, bi-wire and use the larger wire on the tweeters. Huh, the larger on the tweeters?? Treble likes a larger surface to travel on than the bass. I read that in some cable guide somewhere. I don't remember why...
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,862
    edited April 2004
    that does seem strange......hmmm larger for the smaller speaker??smaller for the larger one ??? only in the A/V world !!
  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited April 2004
    Originally posted by madmax
    I would use the same lengths, bi-wire and use the larger wire on the tweeters. Huh, the larger on the tweeters?? Treble likes a larger surface to travel on than the bass. I read that in some cable guide somewhere. I don't remember why...
    madmax

    I believe what you are refering to is called the "skin effect". I believe you are correct in what you are saying. Treble travels on the outer diameter of the cable. So, having a larger diameter means more area for the treble to travel on.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,704
    edited April 2004
    I'll telling you what I found that works for me. I have MIT Shotgun bi-wires and MIT Magnum jumpers. I spoke with MIT about this and they told me that by adding the jumpers I effectively doubled the gauge. After adding the jumpers the highs smoothed out nicely.

    I use to think bi-wiring had a benefit, but I have since changed my mind. I would suggest that you try adding the jumpers and see how it sounds to you.

    BTW Doro, it's not 7 gauge for 3 inches, it's 7 gauge the entire length.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    edited April 2004
    I gave up on bi-wiring too. Just couldn't hear any difference and couldn't justify the cost of a second run of wires. My speakers don't even have bi-wire capability--I love it, no more nagging decisions to make! I would go with 1 high quality set of cables and jumper, as F1 has done.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    edited April 2004
    Originally posted by Willow
    that does seem strange......hmmm larger for the smaller speaker??smaller for the larger one ??? only in the A/V world !!

    The idea is to use your most "high-end" cable for you mid/high frequencies, as these are the most critical for listening. Bass frequencies are much better at "hiding" lower quality cable woes.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,573
    edited April 2004
    Whatever makes you feel good :D
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    edited April 2004
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited April 2004
    Here are a pair of jumpers I made last night. I will eventually add some red & black heat shrink tubing. Classy!!


    Monster Cable XPHP 12 AWG cable - $1 a foot

    Dayton Audio Banana plugs - $3.45 per pair - $13.80 total
    (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-330)

    I installed these on my new RTi70's. I noticed an immediate improvement in the treble. The treble now has a slight sense of air. Clarity is also improved substantially.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,862
    edited April 2004
    do you bi-wire ??? with those jumpers ?? and where are you connecting your main cable if you are not bi-wiring ?? to the tweets or bass ??
  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited April 2004
    First of all, you seem to be a little confused as to what bi-wiring means. I'll explain.

    Bi-wiring means to take one speaker cable & attach one end to the Left & Right speaker outputs of the amp. You then connect the other end of the speaker cable to one set of binding posts on the speaker. Next, you take a new speaker cable, and attach one end to the SAME outputs on the amp. You now take the other end of the second speaker cable, and attach them to the OTHER set of binding posts. You need two full length sets of speaker cable. You DO NOT need jumpers (brass jumpers supplied with the speakers or ones like I made).

    Now to answer your question. No, I do not bi-wire. I simply run one length of speaker cable from the amp to the BOTTOM set of binding posts. I then take the jumpers that I made, and connect the bottom binding posts to the top binding posts. All I'm doing is replacing the brass jumpers that come with the speakers.

    I think almost everyone will agree that replacing the brass jumpers (as I did) will be an improvement. There is a range of opinions here as to the effectiveness of bi-wiring. Some say bi-wiring works, some say it doesn't work.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,862
    edited April 2004
    See I know what bi-wiring is mine are done, in an earlier post someone suggested to bi-wire and use jumpers thats what I was asking you.. but now I know you dont!! I think I will MMO jumpers tonight and just upgrade my regular cable runs.. thanks for the info....
  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited April 2004
    Oh, yes, I forgot you already were bi-wired. This thread is getting a little long. Sorry.

    I didn't understand the logic behind bi-wiring with the jumpers in use either.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited April 2004
    Originally posted by Willow
    See I know what bi-wiring is mine are done, in an earlier post someone suggested to bi-wire and use jumpers thats what I was asking you.. but now I know you dont!!
    I was set up this way for years and several members still are. Took me months to convince many around here that adding back the jumpers would not "blow up" their speakers or amp. It won't so long as the double runs to a given speaker are in phase.

    Is it truly bi-wiring any longer? No, but who cares, if it sounds better... Try it, and see if any change it produces appeals to you.

    As with most things around here, you can either listen to others or actually try it.

    The only don't's are those that can harm your gear...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD